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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I agree with you that that there needs to be several layers of solutions.
    • Immediate Band Aids (now...write, submit it, pass it...i.e. 60 day suspend Fed gas tax, etc..),
    • Short Term (now - 3 yrs...increase MPG requirements, add incentives for making & owning hybrids, encourage and give incentives for conservation),
    • Mid Term (3-10 yrs...domestic drilling, increase refineries, implement bio diesel, make hybrids common and affordable for the average joe, etc...),
    • Long Term (10 and beyond ... R&D alt fuels, establish destitution network for alt fuels, lower cost of offering alt fuel at consumer level).
    Constructive post Hobbes. Maybe each section need to be argued separately. And maybe less personal attacks?

    Surur
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I have stated in other threads that I am for Bio Diesel. Many trucks currently on the road now, could be fit with a conversation kit, can use the current distribution system, gas stations only have to add a pump to their current system, etc.... This could be implemented in a relative short time. Think of all the diesel that could be saved with semi trucks.

    I agree with you that that there needs to be several layers of solutions.
    • Immediate Band Aids (now...write, submit it, pass it...i.e. 60 day suspend Fed gas tax, etc..),
    • Short Term (now - 3 yrs...increase MPG requirements, add incentives for making & owning hybrids, encourage and give incentives for conservation),
    • Mid Term (3-10 yrs...domestic drilling, increase refineries, implement bio diesel, etc...),
    • Long Term (10 and beyond ... R&D alt fuels, establish destitution network for alt fuels, lower cost of offering alt fuel at consumer level).
    then we are mostly in agreement

    its hard for me to see a better solution than ultra hybid for autos and bio diesel for the big stuff.

    (Dems have been trying to go the way of higher MPGs for decades -- repug's idea was to subsidize Hummers; Dems: subdeskize hummer ...)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    I don't think this is the case. If oil continues to live in the $70+ range, we'll see a gradual shift back toward more dense areas. Just as you didn't wake up one day to find millions of people moved to the burbs overnight, the reverse won't happen. Let the price settle where it will and let people react as they see fit. That is the system we have and it has worked so well for so long, I think people's inclination to all of a sudden say life as we know it is over is a bit premature.
    At current global consumption, oil reserves will peak in 5 years. Not enough time for finding viable alternates AND have proper infrastructure in place to distribute and sustain it. This fact has not dawned suddenly on us. Why then have the governance not planned for it. Or educated its citizens on such issues of importance.

    Why do we not have better transit systems: in the past it has been suggested that Auto-Oil-Rubber corporate interests saw to it that transits never took off in US as they did elsewhere in the world. Are such interests at play now? Sure.

    As for me if the public transit does not come to me, I will go to where there is better access. I just sold my house in suburb and now live near downtown.
    Last edited by Xenoepist; 04/27/2006 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Was responding to KRamsauer, forgot to use the quote button.
  4. #84  
    How about long term - massive changes in patterns of consumption, improvements in public transport or alternative transport or alternatives to transport (e.g. work from home).

    Surur
  5.    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    then we are mostly in agreement
    And who said this is not the age of Miracles!
  6. cardio's Avatar
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    then we are mostly in agreement

    its hard for me to see a better solution than ultra hybid for autos and bio diesel for the big stuff.

    (Dems have been trying to go the way of higher MPGs for decades -- repug's idea was to subsidize Hummers; Dems: subdeskize hummer ...)
    Dems plans also include things like Sen Kennedy's plan to stop windmill farms

    WASHINGTON -- As record oil prices turn attention to the need for renewable fuels, momentum is building in Congress to buck Senator Edward M. Kennedy's bid to block the proposed Cape Cod wind energy project

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa..._on_cape_wind/

    So again, please stop the "it's all the repubs fault" crusade you are on.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  7. #87  
    the US could also deport 13 million illegal aliens.... Opps, someone beat me to it!
    .
    .
    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Local gov't can do more to encourage denser urban growth than wait on market winds. Here in Seattle the local gov't has several programs including development breaks to those builders who reserve main floor space for retail.
    The point is that the only valid reason to move closer is that it is better, not because the gov't tells me to. I am not going to say "denser is better" just because I think it might be. I've been wrong before, and may be wrong again. That is why we let people make their own decisions.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    I'm cracking myself up!
    Makes one of you.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Dems plans also include things like Sen Kennedy's plan to stop windmill farms

    WASHINGTON -- As record oil prices turn attention to the need for renewable fuels, momentum is building in Congress to buck Senator Edward M. Kennedy's bid to block the proposed Cape Cod wind energy project

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa..._on_cape_wind/

    So again, please stop the "it's all the repubs fault" crusade you are on.
    Ironic is'nt it this Technology was developed here, and now Germany is the leading benefactor from wind power projects. And india is second! I wish i could remember the source, but I read this couple of weeks ago.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Dems plans also include things like Sen Kennedy's plan to stop windmill farms

    WASHINGTON -- As record oil prices turn attention to the need for renewable fuels, momentum is building in Congress to buck Senator Edward M. Kennedy's bid to block the proposed Cape Cod wind energy project

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa..._on_cape_wind/

    So again, please stop the "it's all the repubs fault" crusade you are on.
    Ah yes, the "Not in my backyard especially when I'm rich and enjoy the views of the ocean" syndrome. :-)
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    The point is that the only valid reason to move closer is that it is better, not because the gov't tells me to. I am not going to say "denser is better" just because I think it might be. I've been wrong before, and may be wrong again. That is why we let people make their own decisions.
    Well, no. Actually gov't does SOMETIMES know what's better. For example, again here, on my hill there are a great number of pay parking lots which are taking up a lot of developable land where some of those retail/living space buildings can go and the gov't here is going to force the sale of this land for that purpose.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Dems plans also include things like Sen Kennedy's plan to stop windmill farms

    WASHINGTON -- As record oil prices turn attention to the need for renewable fuels, momentum is building in Congress to buck Senator Edward M. Kennedy's bid to block the proposed Cape Cod wind energy project

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa..._on_cape_wind/

    So again, please stop the "it's all the repubs fault" crusade you are on.
    I'll trade you ANWR for Teddy's wind farm --

    (ANWR is the energy equivalent -- with about as many BTUs -- as flag burning. The Repugs haul it out, wave it around, set it afire, and successfully distract the peasants from real solutions to real problems.)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoepist
    At current global consumption, oil reserves will peak in 5 years. Not enough time for finding viable alternates AND have proper infrastructure in place to distribute and sustain it. This fact has not dawned suddenly on us. Why then have the governance not planned for it. Or educated its citizens on such issues of importance.

    Why do we not have better transit systems: in the past it has been suggested that Auto-Oil-Rubber corporate interests saw to it that transits never took off in US as they did elsewhere in the world. Are such interests at play now? Sure.

    As for me if the public transit does not come to me, I will go to where there is better access. I just sold my house in suburb and now live near downtown.
    Ah yes, the big oil conspiracy theory. First, it isn't the government's responsibility to tell us how to consume. And it especially isn't their responsibility to tell us where to invest (alternative fuels). If the end really is near, as you say it is, there is so much money to be made in these new realms that someone would be working on it. The reason we do not have better transit systems is that there aren't any. As anyone in Houston knows, sometimes the best "mass transit" is a big ol stretch of blacktop that we can drive our cars on. Our effort on light rail have been a miserable, deadly, failure. Not saying mass transit doesn't work everywhere, just saying that government need not spend billions on projects that a few greens say are vital to save our planet. Not only do they not represent society as a whole, but there is a good chance they are 100% wrong.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Well, no. Actually gov't does SOMETIMES know what's better. For example, again here, on my hill there are a great number of pay parking lots which are taking up a lot of developable land where some of those retail/living space buildings can go and the gov't here is going to force the sale of this land for that purpose.
    Do the owners of the parking lots have legal title to the land? If so, that is equivalent to mugging people in a dark alley and should not be allowed. The best thing the government can do is get the heck out of the way. If people want retail/living space, they will pay for them. A huge swath of Houston has been remade in this fashion, and it's through people seeing opportunity, putting up the capital, and doing it. It wasn't mandated by the city.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoepist
    Ironic is'nt it this Technology was developed here, and now Germany is the leading benefactor from wind power projects. And india is second! I wish i could remember the source, but I read this couple of weeks ago.
    Ironic, perhaps. Bad, not at all. If Germany wants wind generation, all the more power (hah!) to them. We have gone down a different path here, and if we need to build out huge wind farms in the future, the technology will be there. That is the great thing about knowledge: it transports easily.
  17. #97  
    For $200 billion (a fraction of the cost of the Iraq adventure so far) you could install more than 6 million wind turbines at $30 000 each, producing as much power as 38 nuclear reactors. Why's no one doing this?

    Surur
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    For $200 billion (a fraction of the cost of the Iraq adventure so far) you could install more than 6 million wind turbines at $30 000 each, producing as much power as 38 nuclear reactors. Why's no one doing this?

    Surur
    The first two words of your post answered the last five.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Do the owners of the parking lots have legal title to the land? If so, that is equivalent to mugging people in a dark alley and should not be allowed. The best thing the government can do is get the heck out of the way. If people want retail/living space, they will pay for them. A huge swath of Houston has been remade in this fashion, and it's through people seeing opportunity, putting up the capital, and doing it. It wasn't mandated by the city.
    I'm not sure waiting on market pressure is working for urban growth in Houston, unless you count the girth growth.

    Getting back to the original topic, I was watching a show on obesity in America, focused on Houston, and the interviewer is talking to a woman on her porch sitting in a quaint porch swing next to her chubby little boy, in the suburns, and the woman says, I won't even let him walk to the bus stop, I drive him and we sit in the air conditioned car until the bus arrives.

    As if that wasn't bad enough the interviewer asks how far the child's bus stop is, and the woman looks over her shoulder to a stop sign quite visible in the background and says "Right there".

    That's what's wrong with gas in America.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Ah yes, the big oil conspiracy theory. First, it isn't the government's responsibility to tell us how to consume. And it especially isn't their responsibility to tell us where to invest (alternative fuels). If the end really is near, as you say it is, there is so much money to be made in these new realms that someone would be working on it. The reason we do not have better transit systems is that there aren't any. As anyone in Houston knows, sometimes the best "mass transit" is a big ol stretch of blacktop that we can drive our cars on. Our effort on light rail have been a miserable, deadly, failure. Not saying mass transit doesn't work everywhere, just saying that government need not spend billions on projects that a few greens say are vital to save our planet. Not only do they not represent society as a whole, but there is a good chance they are 100% wrong.
    I am not talking about oil conspiracy. During 1930’s General Motors (alongwith Firestone Tire and Standard Oil) created a holding company through which GM and other auto related companies channeled funds to buy up streetcar systems in 45 US cities. And thus the legacy of “big ol stretch of blacktop” all over US that would run GM autos on Firestone tires burning standard oil. As a matter of fact GM was convicted in 1960 for the same in Chicago federal court.

    I never said/suggested that end is near (atleast not in my life time). I said oil production will peak in 5 years meaning we would have used up half of what was originally there. Bottom-line is better land use is in order.
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