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  1. #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Nail, meet head.
    Texan economics 101...

    its the same process by which Enron screwed California with during their phoney artificially constructed energy "crisis"

    where they deliberately manuafactured a shortage by shutting down power plants for "maintanence", and selling capacity away from Ca. and then reselling it back at a now extortionate price

    How did John D. Roockefeller become the richest man on the planet -- big whoops to the first who can tell how ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/09/2006 at 11:03 PM.
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  2. #342  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    How did John D. Roockefeller become the richest man on the planet -- big whoops to the first who can tell how ??
    That's my great (4 greats) grandfather's brother.

    It was by controlling production. Can I get the whoops?
  3. #343  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    That's my great (4 greats) grandfather's brother.

    It was by controlling production. Can I get the whoops?
    WHOOPS go to Blaze !!

    oil was cheaper than water in Texas until John D. bought up everything -- controled production, and eliminated competition !!
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    #344  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Texan economics 101...

    its the same process by which Enron screwed California with during their phoney artificially constructed energy "crisis"

    where they deliberately manuafactured a shortage by shutting down power plants for "maintanence", and selling capacity away from Ca. and then reselling it back at a now extotionate price

    How did John D. Roockefeller become the richest man on the planet -- big whoops to the first who can tell how ??
    Ahhh, the memories of Gray Davis.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  5. #345  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Ahhh, the memories of Gray Davis.
    memories of Ken Lay, Gary Skilling, et. al -- laughing at the grannies unable to pay their utility bill...
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  6. #346  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Ahhh, the memories of Gray Davis.
    A well-run market cannot be controlled. California's electricity market was of such terrible design, it was only a matter of time before someone took advantage of it.
  7. #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    A well-run market cannot be controlled. California's electricity market was of such terrible design, it was only a matter of time before someone took advantage of it.
    ahh -- defending, justifying Enron ....
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  8. #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ahh -- defending, justifying Enron ....
    defending? don't see that.
    justifying? don't see that either.

    EXPLAINING the reason Enron was able to? .....I see that.

    Thread Crapper
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    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

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  9. #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ahh -- defending, justifying Enron ....
    Are you kidding me? I said nothing of the sort. It's pretty clear Enron did some illegal things in California. As such, the bank (CA) decided it would just store its money on the tables in the lobby, and a thief (Enron) took it. You should be talk show host. You're really good at misinterpreting what people say!
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    #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ahh -- defending, justifying Enron ....
    Barye, you seem to be reading between the lines, when there are no lines to read between.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  11. #351  
    in its scale, impact, and sheer arrogant mendacity, what Enron did to Ca. (in particular though not exclusively) was unprecedented.

    It was absolutely denied at the time by Ennron. They pretended that they were "part of the solution" for a crisis that was California's creation.

    If not for the trader's (traitor's?) tapes of Enronees cackling about poor granny sittin in the dark -- we might never have learned about it.

    Blaming the muggee for the mugger does not cut it for me here ...

    (btw -- going out now...)
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  12. #352  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Are you kidding me? I said nothing of the sort. It's pretty clear Enron did some illegal things in California. As such, the bank (CA) decided it would just store its money on the tables in the lobby, and a thief (Enron) took it. You should be talk show host. You're really good at misinterpreting what people say!
    there would have been a surplus of energy in Calif. if not for Enron's manipulation of the market there

    junior's best friend Kenny-boy Lay's connections to this administration certainly increased their confidence that they could pull it off.

    You're right if you are putting some of the blame on the way (even the idea) the "privatization" of energy was both implemented and conceived.
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  13. #353  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    You're right if you are putting some of the blame on the way (even the idea) the "privatization" of energy was both implemented and conceived.
    more than some
  14. #354  
    ENRON -- the smartest (smarmiest) guys in the room ....
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  15. #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    there would have been a surplus of energy in Calif. if not for Enron's manipulation of the market there
    That's a questionable assertion, but even allowing for it, CA screwed up so badly in setting up their markets (so much so that you could explain it to a 10 year old), that the fact they were fleeced shouldn't be a surprise. Just like if you leave a hundred bucks clipped to your business card on the ground outside your office, you shouldn't be surprised when someone picks it up and walks away with it. Doesn't excuse the guy who picked up the money, but you're pretty darn stupid (to the point of responsibility).
  16. #356  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    You're right if you are putting some of the blame on the way (even the idea) the "privatization" of energy was both implemented and conceived.
    At it's most basic level, they didn't privatise anything. They forced power wholesalers to buy at whatever the marginal generator was offering yet not allowing them to raise their own prices. It would be like your boss being able to name your wage, but you being unable to find work elsewhere.
  17. #357  
    To tie this all back to gasoline, Hawaii just scrapped its gasoline "price cap" which was essentially the inverse of the CA power disaster: it regulated wholesale prices but let retail prices fluctuate. Needless to say, they aren't getting rid of it because it worked...
  18. #359  
    Okay. It makes sense that Shell shuts down its MOST profitable refiney, rather than shut down their own refinery about 100 miles away in Martinez (which apparently, is a less profitable refinery). Can someone tell me why that might be? Would it have anything to do with the type of crude they run?
  19. #360  
    I would've thought operating cost, as well as other costs, would be figured into a profitabily number. How else could one figure out whether it is worthwhile to stay in business.

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