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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Whose house did the Jews steal?
    puleez

    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Is it all lobbies you have a problem with, or is it just the jewish ones?
    I believe it's apparent by my statement that I have a distaste for all lobbying groups.
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    #22  
    DaThomas,

    Do you actually know the history of Israel? You do realize there were Jews there before, and during the time it was created in 1948. I once again, ask you whose house did the Jews steal?

    I believe it's apparent by my statement that I have a distaste for all lobbying groups.
    But you have no problem with Jew haters.
  3. #23  
    Just to avoid confusion, here what I think about the first post:
    Quote Originally Posted by JOEBIALEK
    In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel."
    It's a rather biased and exaggerated description, but it is true that there is a very strong pro-Israel lobby in the US (interestingly, not even one representing the views of the Jewish population in the US), and that the US foreign policy is extremely pro-Israel most of the time, no matter what Israel does (e.g. build more settlements in the West Bank).
    Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East.
    Stupid part of the post. The negative development in the Middle East was the fault of the Arabic nations almost 100% - in the beginning. This does not mean Israel is doing the right things now.
    Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

    As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in *****."
    Not only stupid, but also racist. Very bad. Should be removed in my view.
    Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel.
    Largely true. Israel is diveded into those born from a Jewish mother (hence Jewish) and those who are not. The latter don't enjoy the same rights. That's a racist approach, too.
    Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.
    I don't think the US or other countries should stop their support for Israel, but a more balanced approach from the US would be helpful at times. E.g. the wall around the West Bank sound like a good idea, but why take advantage of the opportunity and take away even more land that does not belong to Israel in the process?
    Last edited by clulup; 04/24/2006 at 11:55 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    DaThomas,

    Do you actually know the history of Israel? You do realize there were Jews there before, and during the time it was created in 1948. I once again, ask you whose house did the Jews steal?
    There's no way I'm burning cycles on this today. It always goes in the same circles and ends up with the same answers. I've read Chomsky.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    But you have no problem with Jew haters.
    I have no appreciation for any blanket generalization hate. But are we talking about Israelis or Jewish people?
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    #25  
    True. Israel is diveded into those born from a Jewish mother (hence Jewish) and those who are not. The latter don't enjoy the same rights. That's a racist approach, too.

    I think over 20% of Israel is made up of non-jews. They have full citizenship. Ask Jews and Christians in Muslim countries how they feel. Ask, them if they are able to vote, or in some cases even get a job. Funny how nobody every brings that up.


    Im in favor of a palenstinian state. However, its real tough to have a neighbor that is sworn to your destruction.
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    #26  
    I have no appreciation for any blanket generalization hate. But are we talking about Israelis or Jewish people?
    Why, do you make an exception in this case?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Why, do you make an exception in this case?

    Criticizing a gov't policy is not racisim, so yes, there would be a difference.
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    #28  
    Criticizing a gov't policy is not racisim, so yes, there would be a difference.
    That ofcourse is not what you said. You said "Israelis or Jews". Didnt mention government at all.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    That ofcourse is not what you said. You said "Israelis or Jews". Didnt mention government at all.
    Well, israelis are responsible for their gov't policy in a democracy no?
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    #30  
    Well, israelis are responsible for their gov't policy in a democracy no?
    So you hate Israelis. Ok, Im glad we cleared that up.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    So you hate Israelis. Ok, Im glad we cleared that up.
    Yes, all the world is against you. Sigh.
  12. #32  
    When a guy posts on a Treo Discussion Forum, all kinds of crap about Israel, you know that there is an intent behind it, and it ain't to let you know about the latest Israeli software for the upcoming 700P. I lived in Israel for 8 years, so I do know a thing or two. And yes, its true, we are plotting to take over the world.

    In fact, I will let you on to a little secret. The Starbucks chain is actually where we meet, in different cities on the 1st Tuesday of every month. (Note the clever use of the name Starbucks, Star for the Star of David, and Bucks that we are purported to love) At these meetings, we also discuss our early warning system that allows us not to show up for work on the day that there is a terrorist attack on any building where Jews work. For some reason, the implanted chip we all have does not work in Israel. Oh, and the chip is actually implanted in the ***** during the ritual circumcision.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by naftalim
    The Starbucks chain is actually where we meet, in different cities on the 1st Tuesday of every month. (Note the clever use of the name Starbucks, Star for the Star of David, and Bucks that we are purported to love)
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    #34  
    Yes, all the world is against you. Sigh.
    Why me? Im not Israeli. Im an American. An American whose every male member since WW2 has served his country. I bet more than I can say for your family.


    Do you also hate the Arab Israelies or just the Jewish ones?


    You are clearly against the US policy in Iraq. We are a democracy, do you hate all Americans?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Why me? Im not Israeli. Im an American. An American whose every male member since WW2 has served his country. I bet more than I can say for your family.


    Do you also hate the Arab Israelies or just the Jewish ones?


    You are clearly against the US policy in Iraq. We are a democracy, do you hate all Americans?

    Sigh.

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    #36  
    Sigh.

    Typical Dat. I feel sorry for you. All that bent up hate.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    ...with the exception of the regular "Good points..." after two or three replies (hence my post above).
    I stand corrected. Of course, the "good points" bit is just a bump, but I guess its still a reply.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I've read Chomsky.
    Would never have guessed that one.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes, all the world is against you. Sigh.
    I agree that criticizing Israeli policy should not be equated with being anti-semitic (just ask any of the Satmar Hassidim or, for that matter, at any one time half of the Knesset would be considered anti-semitic). But you kind of started off on the wrong foot with your original post. I cringed when I read it even though I knew what you were getting at.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Typical Dat. I feel sorry for you. All that bent up hate.
    I'm not the one coming off as a bit rabid here. And I think you meant "p"ent.
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