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  1.    #1  
    and the combustible volatility of unaddressed, and unresolved grievance.

    This is another weird story -- one that makes me uncomfortable to discuss or even think about.

    (so perhaps it’s a topic that deserves to be here.)

    " DURHAM, N.C., April 10 — Results of DNA tests on 46 Duke lacrosse players were released Monday, and lawyers for the players said the tests failed to link them to the woman who accused three of them of raping her at an off-campus party last month.

    The lawyers said that none of the players' DNA was found on the woman, on any of her clothing or possessions, or under artificial fingernails that were found by the police. They said the rape accusation was false and based on the testimony of the one woman, who is a 27-year-old college student, a mother of two and an exotic dancer. She had been hired to perform at an off-campus party held by members of the men's lacrosse team on the night of March 13.

    The lawyers, who received the DNA results Monday afternoon, asked the Durham County district attorney to drop the case.

    The case has raised issues of race and class in Durham and in the Duke community. The woman, who is black, said that she had been raped by three white students and that some players shouted racial insults...

    ... The accuser had said three lacrosse players blocked her in the bathroom of a house and assaulted her. She said she had broken off five artificial fingernails while scraping the arm of one of the men who was holding her.

    "There is no DNA evidence that shows any of these boys were touched by her fingernails," Cheshire said. "There is no evidence other than the word of this one complaining person that any rape or sexual assault took place in that house that evening."

    An emergency room physician and a sexual assault nurse specialist examined the woman on the night of the incident. Medical records and interviews that the police obtained by subpoena showed the woman had injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted... "



    As a predicate to any conversation lets accept on its face the NY Times reportage of the DNA testing results: that there was apparently was no physical evidence connecting her and any male attacker.

    (No DNA found on her person, her clothing, or her fingernails.)

    Retrospectively I suppose that things could have devolved in a more destructive way than they have -- though I wonder about all the unresolved emotions and angry expectations that are always present in the air waiting for the proper catalyst to ignite them.

    Part of my discomfort with this episode comes from my being a NYorker in '87 when the Tawana Brawley case broke. I was distrustful of that story when it first became known, and I was reminded of it as the Duke case developed.

    I'm also sensitive to this topic because of a neighborhood effort here that failed at least in part because of unspoken issues of racial/cultural distrust.

    Did the media report on this story with enough skepticism, was Duke too harsh, was the suspicion of the mostly white lacrosse fratboys understandable ??

    Does anyone have an opinion or a perspective on this ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/11/2006 at 03:05 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    and the combustible volatility of unaddressed, and unresolved grievance.....Does anyone have an opinion or a perspective on this ??
    It also reminds me of the story of the "white" woman who sent her car into the lake with her sons inside, only to report that a "black" man had kidnapped them.

    There is a race problem in this nation. But, it is not what many seem to think it is. The problem is, we think in terms of "race" at all. And, accordingly, whenever there is a report of crime involving a "white" perpetrator and "black" victim, or vice versa, people dig out there deep-seated prejudices and over-write the matter with that perspective.

    Certainly, we need not over-look that a significant portion of wealth of this nation was derived from slave labor, however, that blight in our history need not continue to color all that we say or do.

    What we really ought examine is who in our society profits/benefits from continued "race" separation.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Did the media report on this story with enough skepticism, was Duke too harsh, was the suspicion of the mostly white lacrosse fratboys understandable ??
    fratboys eh? now where did it say they were members of a fraternity? i guess you just assume because they were white and went to trial for rape they were in a fraternity. I wouldnt say you are biased at all

    on another note, it does seem pretty shady and there still seems to be evidence for the rape accusation. only time will tell though. take "evidence" from the defense with a grain of salt they are only there to get their client off.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    It also reminds me of the story of the "white" woman who sent her car into the lake with her sons inside, only to report that a "black" man had kidnapped them.

    There is a race problem in this nation. But, it is not what many seem to think it is. The problem is, we think in terms of "race" at all. And, accordingly, whenever there is a report of crime involving a "white" perpetrator and "black" victim, or vice versa, people dig out there deep-seated prejudices and over-write the matter with that perspective.
    Exactly. One would think that a woman of any race being raped by a group of men of any race would, all by itself, be considered an egregious crime. Does the race of either party make it any worse? Further, I would even go so far as to say: does the inclusion of racial epithets make it any more hateful? Does the fact that one party is rich make it any more inequitable?

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    What we really ought examine is who in our society profits/benefits from continued "race" separation.
    Great idea! I have a few groups in mind.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Great idea! I have a few groups in mind.
    Yeah! What was that group DaThomas is so in love with
  6. #6  
    In the United States today, our government gives one dollar to educate a black child, for every 3 dollars spent on educating a white child.

    Then when that child reaches 18 and applies to the university, the president of the united states files a brief to the supreme court to make sure the admissions board is not able to take that in to consideration.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    In the United States today, our government gives one dollar to educate a black child, for every 3 dollars spent on educating a white child.

    Then when that child reaches 18 and applies to the university, the president of the united states files a brief to the supreme court to make sure the admissions board is not able to take that in to consideration.
    Is this spending pattern a function of legislation specifying such disparity, or a reflection of the income levels of the nation's municipalities?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    In the United States today, our government gives one dollar to educate a black child, for every 3 dollars spent on educating a white child.

    Then when that child reaches 18 and applies to the university, the president of the united states files a brief to the supreme court to make sure the admissions board is not able to take that in to consideration.
    Would you care to cite any sources?
  9. #9  
    Granted, this is dated material. On the other hand, it shows what student spending was like following the dreaded Reagan years.

    One approach to examining the relationship between minority enrollment and education spending is to compare public school expenditures in districts with different levels of minority enrollment. Figure 1 shows expenditures for four categories of school districts by the percentage of minority students enrolled. Each of these four categories of school districts represents about 25 percent of the nation's public school children. Figure 1 shows that on average, during the 1989–90 school year, spending was fairly equal across school districts with less than 50 percent minority enrollment. However, districts in which 50 percent or more of the students enrolled were racial minorities spent more than those districts with less than 50 percent minority enrollment. For example, the average expenditure differential between districts with the highest and the lowest percentage of minority students was $431 per student ($5,474 versus $5,043).


    http://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/97917.asp
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Is this spending pattern a function of legislation specifying such disparity, or a reflection of the income levels of the nation's municipalities?

    (just a quick comment, shopharim)

    the disparities of education resources and expenditures is the direct product of the mechanism that is used to pay for education in this country: property taxes.

    This yields great schools in wealthy suburbs -- and is a major (though not the only) contributor of the bad schools in areas with low property values.

    The property tax system is almost by design one that perpetuates inequality of education and opportunity.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Would you care to cite any sources?
    What? You're not aware that the education budget has two sections? One is "Give Whitey more funds..." and the other is labeled "For them Colored folks..."

    (Why the Hell the Federal Government is even involved in education is something I'll never understand anyways...)

    As to the Supreme Court case, may be in reference to a case involving the U of Mich. Had to do with Affirmative Action in regards to admissions IIRC, but I'd have to google it.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Is this spending pattern a function of legislation specifying such disparity, or a reflection of the income levels of the nation's municipalities?
    Huh? Why would that matter to the black student who gets $1 to every $3?

    Just some remedial info, school tax is based on proprty value, and the Fresh Prince is just a TV show.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    (Why the Hell the Federal Government is even involved in education is something I'll never understand anyways...)
    Lol, yes and the reason Wallace stood in the school door is for states rights not because hes a flaming racist.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    The property tax system is almost by design one that perpetuates inequality of education and opportunity.
    Yet, the data doesn't seem to support the notion that high minority school districts are slighted in any way.

    In an attempt to isolate the effect of race using additional statistical procedures, the association of district minority enrollment to education "buying power" can be considered simultaneously with other variables likely to be related to district spending. School district wealth, enrollment, and percentages of limited English proficient, special education, and at-risk children are examples of some of the variables included.

    This approach reveals a positive association between minority enrollment and expenditures among districts that were similar with respect to wealth, size, location, and types of students in attendance in school year 1989–90. Expressed in terms of "buying power," and with other related variables held constant, the average expenditure in districts enrolling the highest percentages of minority students was $594 greater than in their lowest minority enrollment counterparts ($4,514 - $3,920) (figure 3).
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    As to the Supreme Court case, may be in reference to a case involving the U of Mich. Had to do with Affirmative Action in regards to admissions IIRC, but I'd have to google it.
    Ahh, a refresher is needed. This is where a white student filed a lawsuit against the University of Michigan because she had a higher SAT than a black student and was unfairly discriminated against. The president of the united states (who was a C student attending Yale admitted because of his last name) interjected himself as a 3rd parrty in the case to take the side of the white student.

    Way to go, His hero Jesus would be proud.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    (Why the Hell the Federal Government is even involved in education is something I'll never understand anyways...)
    But talk about getting the Fed out of education and you may as well be advocating another holocaust in some peoples' minds.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Huh? Why would that matter to the black student who gets $1 to every $3?
    Sources?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Lol, yes and the reason Wallace stood in the school door is for states rights not because hes a flaming racist.
    Wallace, as were most of the Southern Democrat Legislators back then were racist. However he was violating the 14th Amendment, and Federal intervention had to take place.

    I'm talking about a Dept. of Education, and Federal tax money being wasted on said Dept.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    But talk about getting the Fed out of education and you may as well be advocating another holocaust in some peoples' minds.
    You ever wonder why that is?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Ahh, a refresher is needed. This is where a white student filed a lawsuit against the University of Michigan because she had a higher SAT than a black student and was unfairly discriminated against. The president of the united states (who was a C student attending Yale admitted because of his last name) interjected himself as a 3rd parrty in the case to take the side of the white student.

    Way to go, His hero Jesus would be proud.
    Well, we're getting wildly off topic now, but if you are denied entrance based on race, what difference does it make the skin tone? Because he was white, and scored a higher SAT, it's okay to bump him for a minority with a lower score?

    How about we do away with that ethicity/race check box on applications, and may the most deserving be given the nod?

    So, you are against discrimination, depending on who is being discriminated?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
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