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  1.    #1  
    In Iraq, Frontline Patience Wears Thin

    This article seems to reflect the recent Zogby poll and as it mentions, I can't imagine the punch in the gut feeling that line by Bush regarding the NEXT president will bring the troops home.

    This administration has abused the US soldier.
  2. cardio's Avatar
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    #2  
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Your participation here is not required.
  4. cardio's Avatar
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    #4  
    No, but starting yet another thread beating this poor horse is not required either. Everyone knows how you feel, everyone knows how I feel. Articles from reporters will not change how I feel, articles from newly released documents will not change how you feel.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  5. #5  
    Doesn't anyone remember what timeline Bush originally gave for this war?
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    No, but starting yet another thread beating this poor horse is not required either. Everyone knows how you feel, everyone knows how I feel. Articles from reporters will not change how I feel, articles from newly released documents will not change how you feel.
    Seriously, if you're not interested in a thread topic, change the channel.
  7. #7  
    Then again, its always nice to have someone offer a balanced view.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Then again, its always nice to have someone offer a balanced view.
    I'd rather have a view from the source than a "balanced" view.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I'd rather have a view from the source than a "balanced" view.
    So you're a "source"? I was talking about balancing your views.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    In Iraq, Frontline Patience Wears Thin

    This article seems to reflect the recent Zogby poll and as it mentions, I can't imagine the punch in the gut feeling that line by Bush regarding the NEXT president will bring the troops home.

    This administration has abused the US soldier.
    I would be interested to have TCers who have served in combat situations comment on how soldiers deal with extended deployments. As I read the comments in the article, the soldiers seem committed to the mission, yet, understandably, concerned about the time required to achieve its objectives. Or, perhaps, more accurately, concerned about if and when they will be able to get back to their families.

    Whereas, there may be a grwoing number of civilians who simply are not (or no longer) supportive of the mission itself.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    So you're a "source"? I was talking about balancing your views.
    Not sure what you're sayiing. I was referring to the content and it's sources in the article I pointed out from today's news.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Not sure what you're sayiing. I was referring to the content and it's sources in the article I pointed out from today's news.
    Two things: first, your source didn't come without your opinion attached. Second, the source itself didn't come without the writer's opinion attached. I get a tickle when reporters use terms like "more than a few" and "most". Surely the reporty used the numbers from the same Zogby poll but, as usual, omitted the actual terminology of the original poll question. Why? It didn't serve the purpose of supporting the article. In today's reporting, opinion comes first then facts are inserted to support the opinion. Evidently, the facts are suddenly incapable of speaking for themselves.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Two things: first, your source didn't come without your opinion attached. Second, the source itself didn't come without the writer's opinion attached. I get a tickle when reporters use terms like "more than a few" and "most". Surely the reporty used the numbers from the same Zogby poll but, as usual, omitted the actual terminology of the original poll question. Why? It didn't serve the purpose of supporting the article. In today's reporting, opinion comes first then facts are inserted to support the opinion. Evidently, the facts are suddenly incapable of speaking for themselves.
    Um yea. As far as unbiased news sources go, I think I'm pretty safe with the Monitor. But thanks for your concern for my real world view accuracy.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Um yea. As far as unbiased news sources go, I think I'm pretty safe with the Monitor. But thanks for your concern for my real world view accuracy.

    The response wasn't for you.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I would be interested to have TCers who have served in combat situations comment on how soldiers deal with extended deployments. As I read the comments in the article, the soldiers seem committed to the mission, yet, understandably, concerned about the time required to achieve its objectives. Or, perhaps, more accurately, concerned about if and when they will be able to get back to their families.

    Whereas, there may be a grwoing number of civilians who simply are not (or no longer) supportive of the mission itself.
    I don't like getting into these political threads. But here are my 2 cents...

    ...you just learn to deal with it. You can be out there for 6 months, 1 year, 1 1/2 years, etc. Is it easy? Absolutely not. Do people really want to be out there for that long? Most don't. But it has to be done. Did I agree with everything that I had to do? Absolutely not. I had my personal opinion about having to get deployed to different places in the world and the reason for the deployment. However, no one put a gun to my head and told me to enlist. I did that on my own. So it was only because of my decisions that I had been deployed. Anyone that reads or watches the news knows that the US military has been and always will be deployed. When was the last time that a President did not suffer military casualties overseas during his presidency (democrat or republican)? That is why a kid comes up to me and wants to know about enlisting in the military I am 100% honest...you can have fun, travel around the world, go to school, learn and see things you probably never imagined that you would, etc. But be prepared to pay the ultimate sacrifice at any time. Is just the reality of the job.

    Committed or not to the mission, you will always be committed to your buddy standing next to you. If you don't perform your buddy will die. Is as simple as that. So you don't need to believe in the mission. It helps if you agree with the President (moral, etc.), but even if you don't, you do what you have to so you and your buddies can get back home alive.
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  16. TomUps's Avatar
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    #16  
    I dont know how many times we need to go over this DaT.

    If you would have polled troops fighting in the South PAcific during WWII, I bet the numbers would have been similar or even higher.

    What troop wouldnt want to go home and see his/her family? Why is this so hard for you to understand.
  17.    #17  
    You're quite oversimplifying. I doubt if you polled the troops anywhere in WWII with the question of "We're done here, let's go home". that would have the same numbers.
  18. TomUps's Avatar
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    #18  
    You're quite oversimplifying. I doubt if you polled the troops anywhere in WWII with the question of "We're done here, let's go home". that would have the same numbers.

    Thats not what Im saying. If you polled troops and gave them a choice between staying and fighting, or going home to their families, what would you expect?
  19. TomUps's Avatar
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    #19  
    You ofcourse didnt say anything about this part from the story

    "Despite their stated frustrations, soldiers say they are prepared to keep coming back. Many here have reenlisted for another four years and throughout the Army reenlistment rates are up"
  20. #20  
    The article, and the original poll as far as I can tell, didn't make a clear enough distinction between a soldier's desire to go home to see his family and what he thinks is the right plan for the US strategically. And it looks like the original poll didn't offer the option of a gradual reduction of forces from Iraq, which has already begun and which Democrats and Republicans violently agree about.

    This poll does highlight the fact that many soldiers don't have a clear sense of the mission. If you don't know what your objective is, how do you know when you're done?

    As for WWII, you wouldn't likely see any respectable news organizations back then playing up morale problems on the front line. Yes, there were plenty of soldiers who wanted to go home. Yes, there were plenty of soldiers who questioned what we were doing sending soldiers to get killed in Europe when we hadn't even been attacked and Hitler posed no threat to us. Try to look past the rosy veneer of history.


    The lack of moral support from the US public and the long time commitments are going to continue to be problems for the military as it faces potential conflicts in Iran, Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan, and East Asia over the next decade.
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