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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Play on words, is that what you call it when you interpret data to suit your argument. That data from the poll in and of itself is suspect at best since no one will provide the actual questions and the choice of answers available. If you ask 100 people if they believe that 9-11 had anything to do with us going to Iraq I would expect 85 would say yes it played a part, and maybe even more will say that as the documents are being released that discuss the conversations that Saddam and his top aides had with AQ members. And, once again you continue to chant the mantra (against growing evidence) that Saddam and AQ were in no way connected. But, hey that is your MO.
    The problem is that people, mostly on the Left, are implying that if we make any connection between the war in Iraq and 9/11 its the same as saying the war in Iraq is retaliation for 9/11. This is untrue and, of course, everyone who thought about it knows it.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    you people who post current events here are donkeys. go to cnn dot com or something. nobody wants to read you uninformed garbage. talk about your f-ing phone will ya?
    What do you think OT means?
  3. cardio's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Look, you can believe what you want to. The poll was likely done using a likert scale which is a scale of "I strongly agree" to "I strongly disagree". But when you see information that doesn't agree with the picture of the world you've painted for yourself, you can just keep repeating to yourself, "You can get polls to reflect anything". Nevermind the reputation of Zogby. Nevermind the science of polling which political players put a great deal of $$ into. You just tell yourself what you need to hear.
    Spin, spin, spin. First you "word play" my statement into me saying the data was from a single question. You were provided correct information and then instead of admitting the fallacy of your statement you spin around and talk about conducting polls.

    I am sure they used a likert scale, that is the easiest way to have data say what you want. As long as the person does not answer disagree or strongly disagree you put it in the agree with % column. That is why Zogby gets the money he does for his polls, he has name recognition, he has a great team of question writers (I have worked with them), he provides the data the person paying for the poll wants. He is very good at what he does. If you choose to put your faith and trust in polls, good for you.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  4. cardio's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    you people who post current events here are donkeys. go to cnn dot com or something. nobody wants to read you uninformed garbage. talk about your f-ing phone will ya?
    My phone rings and sometimes I don't answer it. I call that my ignore button. This same policy can be used on the computer you are sitting in front of.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  5.    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    you people who post current events here are donkeys. go to cnn dot com or something. nobody wants to read you uninformed garbage. talk about your f-ing phone will ya?
    That's why it's called "off topic" genius.
  6.    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    The problem is that people, mostly on the Left, are implying that if we make any connection between the war in Iraq and 9/11 its the same as saying the war in Iraq is retaliation for 9/11. This is untrue and, of course, everyone who thought about it knows it.

    I have no idea what that means.
  7. #67  
    Hey, do you guys realize what just happened? Cardio, daThomas and I all just agreed on something.

    Hey, thanks eldiablo!
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    If you choose to put your faith and trust in polls, good for you.
    Seems to get the prez dancing like an amphetimine monkey instead of rriding his mountain bike at the "Western White House".
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Hey, do you guys realize what just happened? Cardio, daThomas and I all just agreed on something.

    Hey, thanks eldiablo!

  10.    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    My phone rings and sometimes I don't answer it. I call that my ignore button. This same policy can be used on the computer you are sitting in front of.
    That's pretty funny!
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I have no idea what that means.
    Really? Do you think the following statements are equivalent?

    1) The war in Iraq is in retaliation for 9/11.
    2) The war in Iraq is related to the events on 9/11.
  12.    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Really? Do you think the following statements are equivalent?

    1) The war in Iraq is in retaliation for 9/11.
    2) The war in Iraq is related to the events on 9/11.

    Perhaps. But as we've said before, without seeing the poll, which we've already discovered is $20, we can't make assumptions about the questions and methodology. HOWEVER, I'll guarantee you that right week pundits have obtained copiees of it to try to shoot holes in it and the fact that they're not saying anything makes me think the methodology and stats must be pretty tight.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Dude, let it go. My statement was not trying to say your were wrong it was to focus on the other number.
    Yeah, I guess I got confused when you said "It's just wrong is all."

    You are so freaking right in this matter i stand in awe. Now let it go.
    Now that wasn't so hard, was it?
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Quote Originally Posted by cesium1024
    Doesn't it ususally consist of a fair amount of flag burning (the same flag many people gave their lives for)
    Wow! You sure don't get it do you. America does not fight and struggle for a flag. We strive for and believe in Freedom. Like freedom of political expression. Sorry you are unable or unwilling to see that difference.
    I do believe I get it. We do not fight for a Flag. But the Flag represents what we fight for. I would fight and die for the freedom of political expression. Several of my family members have fought and died to give you and me the freedom of political expression. But that does not mean I have to respect those individuals who choose to use or abuse that freedom bought with the blood of my family members by burning the American flag just to make a point for an extremest point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Nope, there are plenty of 'Lefties' that are pro-citizen gun ownership. How else do we protect ourselves from administrations like the current one.
    I hope this was made in jest. Or are you a supporter of the likes of Harry Belafonte:

    Bush is a terrorist....I donít know if Pres. Bush is the greatest terrorist, Iíve not met them all, but heís damn sure in the running ........terror is unleashed. The Gestapo is here.....
    Or in line with Movon.org's campaign to compare Bush to Hitler ( http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=36456 )?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/01/2006 at 12:02 PM.
  15. cardio's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Perhaps. But as we've said before, without seeing the poll, which we've already discovered is $20, we can't make assumptions about the questions and methodology. HOWEVER, I'll guarantee you that right week pundits have obtained copiees of it to try to shoot holes in it and the fact that they're not saying anything makes me think the methodology and stats must be pretty tight.
    And the other way around also. The left side obtained copies to disprove the right side and could'nt, if they could they would have posted the information also. I will not pay Zogby the $20, if he wants to back his methodology he would have posted the demographics. I get the feeling he knows there are holes and will nto release all the info for even those who paid $20.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  16. #76  
    what's the opposite of "above me?"
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    what's the opposite of "above me?"
    "beneath me"?
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by cash70
    I don't like getting into these political threads. But here are my 2 cents...

    ...you just learn to deal with it. You can be out there for 6 months, 1 year, 1 1/2 years, etc. Is it easy? Absolutely not. Do people really want to be out there for that long? Most don't. But it has to be done. Did I agree with everything that I had to do? Absolutely not. I had my personal opinion about having to get deployed to different places in the world and the reason for the deployment. However, no one put a gun to my head and told me to enlist. I did that on my own. So it was only because of my decisions that I had been deployed. Anyone that reads or watches the news knows that the US military has been and always will be deployed. When was the last time that a President did not suffer military casualties overseas during his presidency (democrat or republican)? That is why a kid comes up to me and wants to know about enlisting in the military I am 100% honest...you can have fun, travel around the world, go to school, learn and see things you probably never imagined that you would, etc. But be prepared to pay the ultimate sacrifice at any time. Is just the reality of the job.

    Committed or not to the mission, you will always be committed to your buddy standing next to you. If you don't perform your buddy will die. Is as simple as that. So you don't need to believe in the mission. It helps if you agree with the President (moral, etc.), but even if you don't, you do what you have to so you and your buddies can get back home alive.
    Just getting back in to the discussion. This post was excellent. I was especially impacted by the statement I placed in bold.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The American way to view that is citizens making choices for themselves in the privacy of their own home which does not affect anyone else and is none of the government's business.
    Does not affect anyone else accept
    ... the law enforcement personnel who are endangered by the heavily armed illegal supply chain
    ... the fellow-citizens who seek to shield themselves from the trade
    ... the fellow-citizens who seek to protect themselves from the "turf wars" related to the trade

    Yes, if it were legal we might not have these conditions. But that's just it. As of now it is illegal.


    Their choices are most certainly affecting someone else.
    Last edited by shopharim; 04/03/2006 at 10:22 AM.
  20.    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Yes, if it were legal we might not have these conditions. But that's just it. As of now it is illegal.
    Exactly!
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