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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigBadWolf
    You mean he can't?
    It's best we not discuss these things openly. In fact the mere thought may be enough to get us a roundhouse kick upside our domes...
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  2. cardio's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    It's best we not discuss these things openly. In fact the mere thought may be enough to get us a roundhouse kick upside our domes...
    The truth behind the Cheney hunting accident: someone did have that thought and Chuck spit buckshot at him (Chuck was on vacation it Florida at the time) and then told the Vice President to take the blame.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    The truth behind the Cheney hunting accident: someone did have that thought and Chuck spit buckshot at him (Chuck was on vacation it Florida at the time) and then told the Vice President to take the blame.
    Ahhh I see the old fashion cover your own @$$ routine...nice.
    I'm so Great I'm jealous of myself!
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    This is so typical of you. What George Bush has to do with an Afghani being sentenced to death for leaving Islam, only you know.


    George Bush this...George Bush that...cripes your monotony is unbelievable.

    Can you even **** or blow your nose without thinking of George Bush? Is your life that consumed with him that you can't discuss an issue unless you can find a way to bring him up? Wow...seek counseling.
    My, my, my... 'twasn't me who brought up Bush in this thread, it was hoovs:
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I think Bush needs to talk to Karzai, Presidente a Presidente, about a little thing called religious freedom. I guarantee this is happening more than we know.
    And a certain Shopharim, in the very first post, brought up the issue of your (taxpayer's) money being spent in Afghanistan, and it certainly is Bush who decided to spend that money there.

    However, maybe it is indeed unfair to mention Bush here: after all, Afghanistan is not the same as Iraq... but with respect to Iraq, Bush has his place because of the reasons he gave for the war in Iraq (explicitly or implicitly):

    - war on terror - doesn't work any more
    - WMD - doesn't work any more
    - Democracy, freedom of thought/religion etc. in Iraq - doesn't work either
    (for the reasons mentioned in my post: you can't enforce democracy by invading a county and hoping everything will be alright afterwards.)

    But let's not have another Iraq discussion, the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff seemed interesting enough.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    My, my, my... 'twasn't me who brought up Bush in this thread, it was hoovs: And a certain Shopharim, in the very first post, brought up the issue of your (taxpayer's) money being spent in Afghanistan, and it certainly is Bush who decided to spend that money there.

    However, maybe it is indeed unfair to mention Bush here: after all, Afghanistan is not the same as Iraq... but with respect to Iraq, Bush has his place because of the reasons he gave for the war in Iraq (explicitly or implicitly):

    - war on terror - doesn't work any more
    - WMD - doesn't work any more
    - Democracy, freedom of thought/religion etc. in Iraq - doesn't work either
    (for the reasons mentioned in my post: you can't enforce democracy by invading a county and hoping everything will be alright afterwards.)

    But let's not have another Iraq discussion, the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff seemed interesting enough.
    Wow...try getting the Republicans to see it that way...In a cold day in hell.
    I'm so Great I'm jealous of myself!
  6. cardio's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    My, my, my... 'twasn't me who brought up Bush in this thread, it was hoovs: And a certain Shopharim, in the very first post, brought up the issue of your (taxpayer's) money being spent in Afghanistan, and it certainly is Bush who decided to spend that money there.

    However, maybe it is indeed unfair to mention Bush here: after all, Afghanistan is not the same as Iraq... but with respect to Iraq, Bush has his place because of the reasons he gave for the war in Iraq (explicitly or implicitly):

    - war on terror - doesn't work any more
    - WMD - doesn't work any more
    - Democracy, freedom of thought/religion etc. in Iraq - doesn't work either
    (for the reasons mentioned in my post: you can't enforce democracy by invading a county and hoping everything will be alright afterwards.)

    But let's not have another Iraq discussion, the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff seemed interesting enough.
    As usual you take any topic and turn into either US bashing or George Bush bashing. Your petty jealousy of everything US is getting old.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
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  7. #47  
    a quick question... what did the US accomplish in Afganistan?

    I can name one goal that will never be met...
    .
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  8. #48  
    And how does that make you feel?
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    As usual you take any topic and turn into either US bashing or George Bush bashing. Your petty jealousy of everything US is getting old.
    And what would I be jealous of? The way you are using your military power in Iraq? That Bush isn't my president? Please, name a few things.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    But let's not have another Iraq discussion, the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff seemed interesting enough.
    I'm game.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I'm game.
    Well, regarding the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff, I can say that I tend to be on the enlightenment side of the discussion.

    So far nobody has objected the statement that sticking to the Sharia rule is a major contributor to the problems many Islamic countries are facing... probably not enough Sharia proponents on this board.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Well, regarding the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff, I can say that I tend to be on the enlightenment side of the discussion.
    To me, use of "vs" suggests mutual exclusivity. I'm not sold on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    So far nobody has objected the statement that sticking to the Sharia rule is a major contributor to the problems many Islamic countries are facing... probably not enough Sharia proponents on this board.
    What are the problems they are facing?
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Well, regarding the enlightenment vs. religion and Sharia stuff, I can say that I tend to be on the enlightenment side of the discussion.

    So far nobody has objected the statement that sticking to the Sharia rule is a major contributor to the problems many Islamic countries are facing... probably not enough Sharia proponents on this board.
    Echoing shopharim's allusion, this argument is a false dilemma. Sharia law is an extreme example of an authoritarian theocratic system. The Enlightenment ideal, so far as it can be codified, is an example of a reaction to theocratic systems and a rejection of traditional forms of authority. There are myriads of philosophical systems over, under and in between these two poles. I'm a firm believer that ideas have consequences. And when we don't properly dissect, delineate and categorize ideas then we fail to learn from them. When we fail to learn from them we fail to possess the ability to promote them or to fight them. Just as an example, people on the Left are calling Bush a Fascist, Bush is calling AQ Islamo-fascists and yet nobody knows what Fascism really is or where it came from. Hence, true Fascism could be on the verge of rebirth and we'd never know it.
  14. #54  
    This does not help those who claim Islam to have moderate influences

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11973510/

    ....
    But four senior clerics interviewed by The Associated Press in their mosques in Kabul said Rahman deserved to be killed for his conversion.

    "He is not crazy. He went in front of the media and confessed to being a Christian," said Hamidullah, chief cleric at Haji Yacob Mosque.

    "The government is scared of the international community. But the people will kill him if he is freed."

    "He is not mad. The government are playing games. The people will not be fooled," said Abdul Raoulf, cleric at Herati Mosque. "This is humiliating for Islam. ... Cut off his head."

    Raoulf is considered a moderate cleric in Afghanistan. He was jailed three times for criticizing the Taliban's policies before the hardline regime was ousted by U.S.-led forces in 2001.
    ...

    Religion does not exist in abstraction, but is defined by it's followers. Let's hear some tolerant interpretation of Sharia from SOME clerics ....

    Anyone?
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  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Religion does not exist in abstraction, but is defined by it's followers. Let's hear some tolerant interpretation of Sharia from SOME clerics ....

    Anyone?
    I think I hear crickets...

    Good post, by the way.
  16. vw2002's Avatar
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    #56  
    condemn a man to death - cut off his head , in fact, for changing religions!!? which time period are these folks frozen in? B.C or A.D.?

    such people are certifiably insane.
    there's no question.

    religion of love and peace? death by medieval practice awaits those who reject the faith in these lands? these actions are more characteristic of an evil, irrational cult, not a peace loving religion.!
    if they are secure in their faith, why would they perceive christianity to be such a threat?

    this case is a shining example for the world to see, and if carried out, will become a defining moment. I don't believe world peace is achievable with those who behead others for their religious conversions.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    if they are secure in their faith, why would they perceive christianity to be such a threat?
    DING DING DING, we have a winner! Give this man a prize. Now, you can win the $64,000 grand prize if you could just answer that question.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    What are the problems they are facing?
    In the field of economy:
    Islamic law prohibits usury, the collection and payment of interest, also commonly called riba in Islamic discourse. Generally, Islamic law also prohibits trading in financial risk (which is seen as a form of gambling). (Source)
    So banking and insurances are considered dubious at best, which makes it difficult to build a strong economy.

    Doesn't a stong fokus on religion always hamper scientific and economic development? Look at the US: you have the not so religious, liberal, high-income states such as New York and California, and the strongly religious, conservative, low-income states in the South and Mid-West... interesting, isn't it?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Doesn't a stong fokus on religion always hamper scientific and economic development? Look at the US: you have the not so religious, liberal, high-income states such as New York and California, and the strongly religious, conservative, low-income states in the South and Mid-West... interesting, isn't it?
    Man, talk about stereo typical slanting to prove a biased and twisted point.

    Never mind you are looking at the major ports and travel hubs for the entire nation and comparing them to midlands which in many areas are vastly agriculture based communities. You are looking at several of the financial centers of the nation and comparing to mid sized towns in the mid west and south.

    And since you have come to such a conclusion that obviously religion is the reason that hampers economic growth and dampens scientific advancement in these regions of the US, I assume you have the religious stats and economic studies of each region to back up such a claim as this being the major roll in these disparities vs other more obvious reasons.

    Mindless throwing around of made of facts or conclusive conclusions (nicely redundant ) I must admit is a pet peeve of mine, and I am just tired enough tonight to even comment on it.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Doesn't a stong fokus on religion always hamper scientific and economic development? Look at the US: you have the not so religious, liberal, high-income states such as New York and California, and the strongly religious, conservative, low-income states in the South and Mid-West... interesting, isn't it?
    Not really very interesting or insightful, clulup. There has always been more wealth in the urban areas because that's where the major business centers are. There has always been more wealth on the coasts because that's where the major trade centers are.

    Can I get a "Duh"?
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