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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Depends if they aren't granting interviews to any media outlets. If they are being pointed out than that is just wrong.
    That's being rude. It isn't silencing. Silencing would be intimidating corporations into not buying ads on CNN or being subject to a boycott...
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    That's being rude. It isn't silencing. Silencing would be intimidating corporations into not buying ads on CNN or being subject to a boycott...
    huh?
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Pretty strong accusation, do you have any details or proof?

    Pure conspiracy theroy stuff... Just an assumption. I woold guess (gasp!) if there was such a thing going on, there perhaps could be a menu of some sorts. Vote for this I give you that....

    I just don't get that rosy feeling some you guys get when we talk about america and it's government.
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    huh?
    Not talking to a newspaper doesn't mean you're silencing them. Silencing them means taking steps to reduce their influence, not reduce the information you give to them. If the NYT asks me what I did yesterday, and I don't tell them, that doesn't mean I'm silencing them. If I threaten to cut off their ad dollars from the multi billion dollar company I own (yeah right), that would be silencing.
  5. #185  
    10/4

    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Not talking to a newspaper doesn't mean you're silencing them. Silencing them means taking steps to reduce their influence, not reduce the information you give to them. If the NYT asks me what I did yesterday, and I don't tell them, that doesn't mean I'm silencing them. If I threaten to cut off their ad dollars from the multi billion dollar company I own (yeah right), that would be silencing.
  6. #186  
    I don't see this one particular event as being any worse than so many other events of fairly recent history. This is just more of the same: selling off America. Companies outsource jobs and send private information outside of the country because it's cheaper there and they can increase their profits. They fund the politicians (both Republican and Democrat) and the politicians let them have their way. It's all about short term monetary gain. Companies serve their stockholders now and CEOs get a far higher ratio of CEO:worker pay than they did in the past. Stockholders and CEOs don't care about a company's long-term interests, just the short-term gain. That results in jobs being outsourced and quality going down the tubes (not necessarily related to the former). And, again, politicians let them have their way.

    In some respects I think that it's good that a big stink is being made of this. But to me the outrage shouldn't be confined to one of security but rather to "what's happening to our country?" Throw around words like "protectionism" if you'd like, but look at the facts. Every day we're making less and less in the US. Our jobs are changing over to service jobs. What can't be outsourced can be (and is being) "in-sourced" by way of illegal immigrant/day-laborers or H1B/L1 visa-holders. I just don't see how a country can survive long-term if it doesn't actually produce anything tangible and that's where we're headed.

    As for the comments about the Nike sneakers...it really wasn't that long ago that our complex Palm OS devices were made in the USA. Sure, these devices are cheaper now, but they weren't *that* expensive back then, and as technology improved they would have gotten cheaper even if they still were made in the US today. Not as cheap as they are now, but cheaper than they were, and not 100x as much as the Chinese-made equivalents. That's just silly.

    And if our Treos cost a bit more as a result, that wouldn't be such a bad thing if it meant that more US citizens were employed and made a good wage because guess what they'd do with a good portion of that money they made? They'd spend it! And that's how the world goes around. Or, at least, that's how it used to go.

    Right now, we're surviving and things seem good to much of the public (cheaper prices thanks to those Chinese imports), but that's because we're still the #1 consumers. But that won't and can't continue if things keep progressing in this manner. As more and more manufacturing moves outside of the US and China and other countries fund more and more of our debt, the pendulum will swing, and when we're no longer the #1 consumers but some other country is, things will get very ugly here.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I don't see this one particular event as being any worse than so many other events of fairly recent history. This is just more of the same: selling off America. Companies outsource jobs and send private information outside of the country because it's cheaper there and they can increase their profits. They fund the politicians (both Republican and Democrat) and the politicians let them have their way. It's all about short term monetary gain. Companies serve their stockholders now and CEOs get a far higher ratio of CEO:worker pay than they did in the past. Stockholders and CEOs don't care about a company's long-term interests, just the short-term gain. That results in jobs being outsourced and quality going down the tubes (not necessarily related to the former). And, again, politicians let them have their way.

    In some respects I think that it's good that a big stink is being made of this. But to me the outrage shouldn't be confined to one of security but rather to "what's happening to our country?" Throw around words like "protectionism" if you'd like, but look at the facts. Every day we're making less and less in the US. Our jobs are changing over to service jobs. What can't be outsourced can be (and is being) "in-sourced" by way of illegal immigrant/day-laborers or H1B/L1 visa-holders. I just don't see how a country can survive long-term if it doesn't actually produce anything tangible and that's where we're headed.

    As for the comments about the Nike sneakers...it really wasn't that long ago that our complex Palm OS devices were made in the USA. Sure, these devices are cheaper now, but they weren't *that* expensive back then, and as technology improved they would have gotten cheaper even if they still were made in the US today. Not as cheap as they are now, but cheaper than they were, and not 100x as much as the Chinese-made equivalents. That's just silly.

    And if our Treos cost a bit more as a result, that wouldn't be such a bad thing if it meant that more US citizens were employed and made a good wage because guess what they'd do with a good portion of that money they made? They'd spend it! And that's how the world goes around. Or, at least, that's how it used to go.

    Right now, we're surviving and things seem good to much of the public (cheaper prices thanks to those Chinese imports), but that's because we're still the #1 consumers. But that won't and can't continue if things keep progressing in this manner. As more and more manufacturing moves outside of the US and China and other countries fund more and more of our debt, the pendulum will swing, and when we're no longer the #1 consumers but some other country is, things will get very ugly here.
    You just hit a grand slam for my team!!!

    So, what can you and I do about it?

    I personally own property abroad and have no problem packing and leaving. I can rent cameras on the beach and live confortably, I just won't be able to travel much...
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    You just hit a grand slam for my team!!!

    So, what can you and I do about it?
    I wish I knew. The best I'm hoping for is Lou Dobbs running for President in 2008. I don't mind disclosing that I've voted for Nader in the past, but that hasn't accomplished much. I think Lou may have more charisma and be better able to relate to the general populace as well as pull a good number of conservatives/Republicans.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I wish I knew. The best I'm hoping for is Lou Dobbs running for President in 2008. I don't mind disclosing that I've voted for Nader in the past, but that hasn't accomplished much. I think Lou may have more charisma and be better able to relate to the general populace as well as pull a good number of conservatives/Republicans.
    Dear Scott, I am with you!!!!!!!!!!!! take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  10. #190  
    Regarding the Nike and Treo examples if made in the USA...The majority of us would not have a Treo b/c we coudn't afford it. Jobs that we don't want have left us for a reason. These elementry economic ideas are naive. Should we make all of our toys too? How bout Hanes underwear? We can't compete. China has massive factories that provide cheap labor around the clock. They provide apartments for free for the young workers. Simple ideas that this is feasbile is just that simple and elementry.
  11. #191  
    I watch him frequently. I think he is very intelligent, but emotional. He is quite smug when talking about President Bush. I don't think he would gain many votes from Repubs. And Hillary would crush him in the primary with his lack of political experience. Dems need to get ready for the Hillary Express, then be prepared to get knocked out once again against the Repubs (and subsequently claim voter fraud, racism, etc )

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I wish I knew. The best I'm hoping for is Lou Dobbs running for President in 2008. I don't mind disclosing that I've voted for Nader in the past, but that hasn't accomplished much. I think Lou may have more charisma and be better able to relate to the general populace as well as pull a good number of conservatives/Republicans.
    Last edited by Advance The Man; 03/01/2006 at 07:42 AM.
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I don't see this one particular event as being any worse than so many other events of fairly recent history. This is just more of the same: selling off America.
    What do you expect? America on the level of individuals (on average), on the governmental level, and as an economy has been spending more than it makes for quite a while now. E.g. the US trade deficit is in the range of 5% of the Gross Domestic Product - world record among industrialised countries. You cannot constantly spend more than you earn without (a) piling up depts and/or (b) selling parts of your economy abroad each year.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  13. #193  
    Why do you think America's trade deficit is bad? Any transaction we as America makes will have both parties feeling they are better off than before. If this were not the case, the transaction would not have occured.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    What do you expect? America on the level of individuals (on average), on the governmental level, and as an economy has been spending more than it makes for quite a while now. E.g. the US trade deficit is in the range of 5% of the Gross Domestic Product - world record among industrialised countries. You cannot constantly spend more than you earn without (a) piling up depts and/or (b) selling parts of your economy abroad each year.
  14. #194  
    btw, I think you are talking about debt, not deficit.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    You cannot constantly spend more than you earn without (a) piling up depts and/or (b) selling parts of your economy abroad each year.
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Why do you think America's trade deficit is bad?
    I didn't say its bad. It just means that you have to sell part of your economy abroad, or pile up depts, that was my point. I leave it to you (or future generations) whether that is/was good or bad in the long run. But you cannot complain about companies (or government bonds etc.) being sold abroad if that is just the result of spending more than you make.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    btw, I think you are talking about debt, not deficit.
    Indeed, that's why I wrote debt, not deficit. However, deficit causes debt sooner or later - the balance has to come from somewhere.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  17. #197  
    Why are you lumping debt and deficit together? They are not the same.

    The following is an excellent example to explain in laymans terms...

    Lets first look at it from the perspective on one individual. Lets say Fred made $50,000 this year, and lives in a US where, before he makes his spending decisions, trade is exactly in balance with China. Fred spends some of his income on rent, and invests some in some nice US equities. And he takes $1000 of what he just made that he might have saved and buys himself a nice Chinese-made plasma TV so he can really enjoy the Superbowl next year.

    So, where's the debt? One can argue that net savings is lower (perhaps - we haven't gotten yet to where the Chinese are spending their extra US dollars), but Fred seems to have increased the trade deficit without incurring any debt. In fact, Fred is actually better off, since in a free society no one engages in a transaction that doesn't return more value than one spends. In this case, the plasma TV provides more than $1000 of value back to Fred, or else he would not have engaged in the transaction.

    Yes, many people are buying Chinese TV's with consumer debt, but these same people are buying much more American stuff with consumer debt as well. To the extent that there is or is not a "problem" with people taking on too much consumer debt, this problem is absolutely unrelated to the country of origin of the goods they are buying. You can max out your Visa card on American stuff just as easily as on Chinese stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I didn't say its bad. It just means that you have to sell part of your economy abroad, or pile up depts, that was my point. I leave it to you (or future generations) whether that is/was good or bad in the long run. But you cannot complain about companies (or government bonds etc.) being sold abroad if that is just the result of spending more than you make.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Regarding the Nike and Treo examples if made in the USA...The majority of us would not have a Treo b/c we coudn't afford it. Jobs that we don't want have left us for a reason. These elementry economic ideas are naive. Should we make all of our toys too? How bout Hanes underwear? We can't compete. China has massive factories that provide cheap labor around the clock. They provide apartments for free for the young workers. Simple ideas that this is feasbile is just that simple and elementry.

    Half the people that have Treos now can't afford them!!! Maybe if it were made in the US it would be of better quality. What you dou think?

    Converse made sneakers in the USA up untill around 2000... I don't recall them costing more that Nikes.

    The greatest cost added to a pair of Nikes... Advertising. Bo knows advertising (at least he used to...)
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  19. #199  
    So now the treo would be more out of reach with higher quality components?

    With same parts, no difference. It's not rocket science putting one together.
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    So now the treo would be more out of reach with higher quality components?

    With same parts, no difference. It's not rocket science putting one together.
    I think the diference would not be in retail price but in company profits.

    I am a big gearhead and by Edelbrock engine components for my cars. They are MADE in USA... (LA in fact)

    You know what is costs to pay a machinist in LA? Even the castings are made in LA and the costs due to all the environmental restrictions are higher that anywhere else.

    Still they make high quality products that are very competitive price wise...

    Look at what is happening to Palm... The OS is now chinese owed, the hardware is made in Taiwan... and now the manufaturer is making their own phones. won't be too long before Palm goes under or is sold to an overseas company.

    Then everyone will be able to own a POS phone...
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.

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