Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31
  1.    #1  
    Imagine two people: one drives an old 10 mpg SUV, and one drives an old 25 mpg compact. Did you know convincing the SUV driver to buy a new 13 mpg Hummer will save more gasoline than convincing the compact driver to buy a 55 mpg hybrid. And I pay (through tax credits) which driver? Makes no sense to me!
  2. #2  
    so we should give tax breaks to people buying hummers? don't forget hybrids are also cleaner. which upgrade will be better for the air?
    .
    .
    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobeez
    so we should give tax breaks to people buying hummers? don't forget hybrids are also cleaner. which upgrade will be better for the air?
    No, we shouldn't give tax breaks to anyone. Frankly I'm ticked off that my money is going to a less-than-ideal cause when the ideal cause is staring us in the face! Hybrids are cleaner because they burn less gasoline. Scrubbing (cat converters, etc) can be installed on any car. The key here is that we are focussing on getting people to shift from Camrys and whatnot, to hybrid sedans when we should be focussing on getting people to switch out of their hulking SUVs into something more "normal." I still think a $1.00/gallon fuel tax, implemented at $0.10 per year for 10 years and then indexed to inflation would be the best way to accomplish that.
  4. #4  
    Take two cars of the same model, one hybrid / one not. Drive $12,000 mile a year and even w/ tax credits which one is cheaper ? Unfortunately the non hybrid. Until that changes, and they can build enough of them to keep up with demand, this isn't going to change.

    And why is always the single guy or couple that complains about SUV's. Never seen a soccer mom with a hybrid. The reason I have a SUV is I am always driving all the other parents kids everywhere....Having served as a scoutmaster, baseball coach, a Prius would be useless to me. Not to mention, 3 teenagers and large dog and every other day mountain biking trips with them where I need 4 wheel drive to access the trails and a vehicle capable of carrying a 4 bike rack, tow a boat and all the other myriad of uses not to mention navigating roadless contruction sites as part bf my "day job".

    My SUV (20+ mpg on highway, 16-17 local) with 5 peeps in it gets way better mileage per person than any hybrid. Ofcourse I have the 2 seater for alone traveling and the wife's car for errands. At least now we are finally starting to see hybrid SUV's. I kept waitig for one but had to bite the bulet last year when the old conversion can hit 150,000 miles.
  5. cardio's Avatar
    Posts
    779 Posts
    Global Posts
    787 Global Posts
    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Take two cars of the same model, one hybrid / one not. Drive $12,000 mile a year and even w/ tax credits which one is cheaper ? Unfortunately the non hybrid. Until that changes, and they can build enough of them to keep up with demand, this isn't going to change.

    And why is always the single guy or couple that complains about SUV's. Never seen a soccer mom with a hybrid. The reason I have a SUV is I am always driving all the other parents kids everywhere....Having served as a scoutmaster, baseball coach, a Prius would be useless to me. Not to mention, 3 teenagers and large dog and every other day mountain biking trips with them where I need 4 wheel drive to access the trails and a vehicle capable of carrying a 4 bike rack, tow a boat and all the other myriad of uses not to mention navigating roadless contruction sites as part bf my "day job".

    My SUV (20+ mpg on highway, 16-17 local) with 5 peeps in it gets way better mileage per person than any hybrid. Ofcourse I have the 2 seater for alone traveling and the wife's car for errands. At least now we are finally starting to see hybrid SUV's. I kept waitig for one but had to bite the bulet last year when the old conversion can hit 150,000 miles.
    Very well put. I drive an 8 passenger SUV and have 7 or more adults or teens in it a high percentage of the time. We could take 2 accords at 30 MPG drive the hundred miles round trip and use 6 gallons of fuel total (3 gallons each) or take my SUV at 20 MPG and use 5 gallons of fuel.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  6. #6  
    I would think the answer would be somewhere in between....meaning perhaps the goal should be to move toward a minimum miles per gallon for all vehicles. There would have to be economic trade offs but I would think the net result would be more palletable for all parties. Making any determination based solely on miles per gallon will never take into account different needs and wants of end users.
  7. #7  
    I just looked at the Honda Civic Hybrid over the weekend. At an average rate of 12,000-15,000 milles/year, it would take a person over five years to recoup the difference in cost between a hybrid and a regular Civic that gets close to 40 mpg on the highway. Which means, Hybrids are still only for people who want to make a statement rather than save money.
  8. #8  
    We need better public transportation. That way, I can park and ride. We have none other than a halfway decent bus system here in Richmond. I have to drive everywhere.

    I would love to hop on a train and go, like I do in Atlanta, NY and DC.
  9. #9  
    Got into an agrument with someone at church when they made a comment about my conversion van getting 14mpg. They both drive hybreds SEPERATE to church. OK 35mpg / 2 = 17.5mpg. They still "that's better." I said yep, your using twice the tires and oil I'm using. And how do you dispose of a dead 'battery' in your car? The next week I put all 7 of us in the Taurus wagon (130,000 miles) 22 mpg. They still drove seperate. I asked him if there was a gas issue this week and he wouldn't speak to me. I proved my point.
    Nik<hr>M100 --->M125 --->M500 --->Treo300 --->Sprint-Treo600 --->Sprint-Treo650
    <hr>
    Rom 8:31 <'><
    <marquee bgcolor=red width=150 height=5>
    1 in 150 babies born today will have some form of Autism
    </marquee>
    Unlocking Autism Mission Trips to Honduras My Space
  10. #10  
    I drive a diesel VW Jetta and get 49MPG (in the summer - 46 or so in the winter). VW even has a smaller diesel available in Europe that gets around 70MPG. The real-world experiences I've read of hybrid owners is that they get in the low to mid-40's.

    Not long ago there really weren't any hybrids. Over the past few years many have been rushed to market (more for marketing purposes than actual environmental or conservation-related benefits - there's even one - the Accord? - that actually gets worse mileage than the strictly gasoline model). People calling for tax benefits - or tax penalties - need to be reminded that the market is working and will continue to. People want hybrids, whether for status reasons or for actual conservation benefits, and the auto makers are filling the demand. The quality and technology will continue to improve without employing the club of tax policy.

    Those who wish to raise gas taxes should also take note of the unintended consequences of that: most commerce in the US moves by truck. Raise the gas tax and you raise the price of nearly everything.

    If you wanted to exempt diesel fuel, I'd be OK with it, though.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  11. #11  
    phurth,

    The new Jetta TDI is only rated at 42mpg. How are you getting 49? And how do you like the power?
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    phurth,

    The new Jetta TDI is only rated at 42mpg. How are you getting 49? And how do you like the power?
    Mine's a 2000 which has the older TDI engine and has a manual transmission. The new PD engine has a bit more power, but probably at the expense of a bit of mileage. I think the EPA has changed how they calculate average mileage within the last year, but I'm not sure about that. At any rate almost all of my driving is highway miles.

    I love the power (and a newer engine should be even better). It doesn't have much horsepower, but has a ton of torque for the vehicle size. Because of this I do a lot less shifting than I would with a gas engine model.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  13. #13  
    problem is that the diesel they sell in the US is crap and will ruin the modern european diesel engines
    The new diesels are great, in the Volvo S60 D5 I drove people could hardly believe it was a diesel.. it was quiet and fast.. unlike oldskool diesels..

    The 1.9 TiD 150 BHP saab 9-5 I drive now is a bit noiser at startup and with a cold engine, but once on temperature it is smooth as with lost of grunt and a nice turbo boost which makes it feel faster then it actually is.. I've only done city driving with it yet and get about 31MPG but on the motorway I should be able to get 40+MPG..
    It really is a motorway eater..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    People calling for tax benefits - or tax penalties - need to be reminded that the market is working and will continue to...Those who wish to raise gas taxes should also take note of the unintended consequences of that: most commerce in the US moves by truck. Raise the gas tax and you raise the price of nearly everything.
    The two items you highlight there show the need for an increase in gas taxes. The market is currently not valuing the social costs of fossil fuel use (and nor should it). By approximating this cost with a tax (and thereby reducing the tax burden elsewhere), you can efficiently price fuels for the first time in history, and then, as you say, let the market do its thing.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    It really is a motorway eater..
    Motorway=highway for all you yanks out there.
    http://english2american.com/dictionary/m.html#motorway
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    The two items you highlight there show the need for an increase in gas taxes. The market is currently not valuing the social costs of fossil fuel use (and nor should it). By approximating this cost with a tax (and thereby reducing the tax burden elsewhere), you can efficiently price fuels for the first time in history, and then, as you say, let the market do its thing.
    If only there were agreement upon what those "social costs" are, you might have a better argument. As it is, those social costs are disputed (and ergo are not factored into the cost of fuel). The other thing I mentioned was the unintended consequence of raising the prices of all things that are transported. How is that to be dealt with?
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Motorway=highway for all you yanks out there.
    http://english2american.com/dictionary/m.html#motorway
    And for those of you in Illinois, that's Tollway.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    If only there were agreement upon what those "social costs" are, you might have a better argument. As it is, those social costs are disputed (and ergo are not factored into the cost of fuel). The other thing I mentioned was the unintended consequence of raising the prices of all things that are transported. How is that to be dealt with?
    I think we can come to a relative agreement on the figure. Whatever it is, it ain't zero. How to deal with the increased prices of transportation? Let the market figure it out. That is what markets are good at: given prices and costs, they automagically figure out the cheapest way to generate the most profit. I propose a gradually increasing tax to minimize disruptions.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    And for those of you in Illinois, that's Tollway.
    A tollway includes just a road that you have to pay to use, right? A highway is any stretch of restricted access, high speed roadway.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    A tollway includes just a road that you have to pay to use, right? A highway is any stretch of restricted access, high speed roadway.
    Yep. I was just poking a bit of fun at my southern neighbors.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions