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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Amazing how many of you have more disdain for law abiding Christians than the Muslims that murder people.
    That's because anti-Christian"ism" is much more tolerated and sadly promoted in some circles (a lot in college as those religious wackos)...where being anti-muslim can get you...well....bombed (or at the very least get you called a closed-minded intolerant "fill name in here")
  2. #142  
    You keep on saying disgusting. What exactly disgusts you?

    Surur
  3. #143  
    Your attititude. You seem to want to justify this by bringup up Christianity. Divorce yourself from that, please. Concentrate on these actions, commited by these violent Muslim goons.

    What does another religion have to do with this now? I don't care if they protest. But this isn't protesting. It's thuggery.

    Why must you always fall back on "Christians did..."?
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  4. #144  
    Well, I guess my bottom line is this:

    When I see Hundu or Sikh violence in India or Christian violence in Northern Ireland or tribal violence in Africa I'm saddened. I figure they are isolated sectarian or ethnic disputes but, really, of little personal consequence to the the vast majority of the world. I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about the people affected by the violence, but most of us aren't affected in a personal way.

    But when I see Islamic violence in England, France, Spain, Russia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, India, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and, yes, New York City, I start getting a bit concerned about my own safety, the safety of my family and the safety of the world. And I ask myself, as most people probably are, if there's something inherent in this religion that promotes this violence. And when I talk to Muslims all I hear, for the most part, are a bunch of Yeah buts: Yeah, but look at what the Jews are doing; Yeah, but look at what the Christians did three-four hundred years ago; Yeah, but look at the economic disparity; Yeah, but they're being oppressed by (fill in the blank). When what I really want to hear is "Yes, its wrong and we condemn it in no uncertain terms." Period. End of story.

    I want to understand. I think we all do. But the time for 'Yeah but' is over. It seems to me there needs to be evidence of some serious introspection by the major Islamic representatives of the world. I just don't see this happening.

    Getting back to my original point, I really think the US gov't needs to back off and give the Danish people some moral support. We don't need to blast the first European country in a long while who seems to be getting some courage to stand up against this issue.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Man, you have a long way to go to catch up to the Muslim murderers. Check out www.religionofpeace.com to see what they have accomplished since 09/11/2001.

    Amazing how many of you have more disdain for law abiding Christians than the Muslims that murder people.

    There's also quite a few more Muslims than Christians.

    Again, not defending extremism, but that site serves no purpose other than to fan the flames. The effective thing to do is pressure moderates to reign in their own.
  6. #146  
    And, for the record, killing abortion clinic workers is wrong. I condemn it, as does every Christian with whom I've personally discussed the issue, in no uncertain terms. Period. End of story.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Your attititude. You seem to want to justify this by bringup up Christianity. Divorce yourself from that, please. Concentrate on these actions, commited by these violent Muslim goons.

    What does another religion have to do with this now? I don't care if they protest. But this isn't protesting. It's thuggery.

    Why must you always fall back on "Christians did..."?
    Yeah but

    You obviously dont understand that unconditional condemnation would place that culture at a disadvantage while being under attack from external forces which make no similar apologies. In fact you are much more likely to get unconditional support, as one would extend to a family member.

    Additionally, there is no such thing as unconditional. Everything is conditional. This is why there is no absolute morality. Ive been trying to demonstrate this to you, but you obviously would like to judge others in black and white, while seeing shades of grey in your own back yard. That is hypocrisy.

    Surur
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    All nut cases.

    Could you point me to a cite that has an influential Christian leader calling all followers of Christ worldwide, to rise up against physicians and staff members that assist with abortions and to kill all who practice that procedure in the name of Christ?

    a cite that has an influential Christian leader calling all followers of Christ worldwide, to rise up against against the turks.
  9. #149  
    Not the Crusades again.
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Yeah but

    You obviously dont understand that unconditional condemnation would place that culture at a disadvantage while being under attack from external forces which make no similar apologies. In fact you are much more likely to get unconditional support, as one would extend to a family member.

    Additionally, there is no such thing as unconditional. Everything is conditional. This is why there is no absolute morality. Ive been trying to demonstrate this to you, but you obviously would like to judge others in black and white, while seeing shades of grey in your own back yard. That is hypocrisy.

    Surur
    What are the shades of grey in my backyard?
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    But when I see Islamic violence in England, France, Spain, Russia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, India, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and, yes, New York City, I start getting a bit concerned about my own safety, the safety of my family and the safety of the world. And I ask myself, as most people probably are, if there's something inherent in this religion that promotes this violence. And when I talk to Muslims all I hear, for the most part, are a bunch of Yeah buts: Yeah, but look at what the Jews are doing; Yeah, but look at what the Christians did three-four hundred years ago; Yeah, but look at the economic disparity; Yeah, but they're being oppressed by (fill in the blank). When what I really want to hear is "Yes, its wrong and we condemn it in no uncertain terms." Period. End of story.

    I want to understand. I think we all do. But the time for 'Yeah but' is over. It seems to me there needs to be evidence of some serious introspection by the major Islamic representatives of the world. I just don't see this happening.

    Getting back to my original point, I really think the US gov't needs to back off and give the Danish people some moral support. We don't need to blast the first European country in a long while who seems to be getting some courage to stand up against this issue.
    Do you understand why Muslims in European countries are going off? They're mostly living in poverty and it takes little for a group that's pissed off like that from going off. We already discussed this with immigrant groups like the Irish in America.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Yeah but

    You obviously dont understand that unconditional condemnation would place that culture at a disadvantage while being under attack from external forces which make no similar apologies. In fact you are much more likely to get unconditional support, as one would extend to a family member.

    Additionally, there is no such thing as unconditional. Everything is conditional. This is why there is no absolute morality. Ive been trying to demonstrate this to you, but you obviously would like to judge others in black and white, while seeing shades of grey in your own back yard. That is hypocrisy.

    Surur
    What is "my back yard"?

    When I see people behaving this way, in the name of a "peaceful" religion, I see no grey. Is this what Mohammad taught? is this his message? Please explain. If it is, then that's perverse, and not what a religion is supposed to be, IMHO.
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  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Not the Crusades again.
    He asked.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by hooves
    And, for the record, killing abortion clinic workers is wrong. I condemn it, as does every Christian with whom I've personally discussed the issue, in no uncertain terms. Period. End of story.
    But accoding to surur there are no moral absolutes, so sometimes, under some circumstances it must be permissable to kill abortionists, no???
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    #155  
    OK, guess I should have clarified. I was speaking of modern times since that is the point of your OP I replied to, but notice this line of your cite
    "Christians are being oppressed and attacked". Did the Danes attack the muslims (a cartoon hardly counts as an attack), did the occupants of the WTC attack the muslims?

    Gosh they did this hundreds of yeas ago, so it must be appropriate for me to do it now
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  16. #156  
    There are numerous examples, e.g. shouldn't Bush be apologizing unconditionally for invading Iraq on false claims of WMD, and withdraw immediately? And shouldn't America be supporting measures to reduce global warming unconditionally, no matter what the effect on their global competitive position. And shouldn't you be boycotting google for supporting censorship in China etc etc etc. The fact that you cant give me examples yourself indicates the mind blindness that affects you.

    I challenge you then. Give me a few examples of American transgressions which you should be ashamed of, and would in a fair world be rectified?

    Surur
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    But accoding to surur there are no moral absolutes, so sometimes, under some circumstances it must be permissable to kill abortionists, no???
    Is it appropriate to kill a child if you knew he would grow up to be Hitler?

    Surur
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Do you understand why Muslims in European countries are going off? They're mostly living in poverty and it takes little for a group that's pissed off like that from going off. We already discussed this with immigrant groups like the Irish in America.
    Europe is only a very small part of the picture. The groups that are behind most of the attacks in the world are very prosperous.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    OK, guess I should have clarified. I was speaking of modern times since that is the point of your OP I replied to, but notice this line of your cite
    "Christians are being oppressed and attacked". Did the Danes attack the muslims (a cartoon hardly counts as an attack), did the occupants of the WTC attack the muslims?

    Gosh they did this hundreds of yeas ago, so it must be appropriate for me to do it now
    Um, two countries are currently being occupied.

    I understand you're having difficulty differentiating between jihadists and poor european immigrants, but if you would just try, you'll see one group to crush, one to smack the europeans around for, and lean on the moderates to control their own.

    It's not difficult if you think it through instead of lumping these very different issues into one group.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Do you understand why Muslims in European countries are going off? They're mostly living in poverty and it takes little for a group that's pissed off like that from going off. We already discussed this with immigrant groups like the Irish in America.
    You mean there's enough severe poverty in Europe that the poor are rising up? Isn't Europe a utopia of free social services vastly superior to those in the US?

    Please forgive me for the schadenfreude...
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