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  1. #881  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    He doesn't govern over me, and hopefully he never will. But if we're comparing "beheading" stories, I suppose you need to provide videos. I mean, we all have access to videos of Muslims beheading people.
    Oh just face it. Your soldiers committed atrocities. When you asking for video's, remember Abu Graib. Some arnt as lucky just to escape with beatings and humiliation.

    The house belongs to Mark Swanner, a forty-six-year-old C.I.A. officer who has performed interrogations and polygraph tests for the agency, which has employed him at least since the nineteen-nineties. (He is not a covert operative.) Two years ago, at Abu Ghraib prison, outside Baghdad, an Iraqi prisoner in Swanner’s custody, Manadel al-Jamadi, died during an interrogation. His head had been covered with a plastic bag, and he was shackled in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe; according to forensic pathologists who have examined the case, he asphyxiated. In a subsequent internal investigation, United States government authorities classified Jamadi’s death as a “homicide,” meaning that it resulted from unnatural causes. Swanner has not been charged with a crime and continues to work for the agency.
    http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../051114fa_fact

    Surur
  2. #882  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    It sure sucks to have been a Native American 150 years ago.
    Surur
    Yup, I have no doubt that it did. Just like it sucks TODAY
    • to be a child blown up because you wanted a chocolate bar from a soldier,
    • or blown to 30 pieces over 50 sq yards with the rest of your family because you wanted to take celebrate your son's birthday by going out to a nice dinner,
    • or being blown up on your wedding day 20 minutes after the ceremony,
    • or having your head slowing sawed off by hand because you committed the fatal crime of being a reporter,
    • or blown to into a pink mist because you were trying to be friendly to the enviroment and decided to ride the bus to work that day,
    • or to have 23 pieces of shrapnel projected through your body by a road side bomb set by other citizens of your own country......
  3. #883  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Oh just face it. Your soldiers committed atrocities. When you asking for video's, remember Abu Graib. Some arnt as lucky just to escape with beatings and humiliation.


    http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conten.../051114fa_fact

    Surur
    You're right. I guess I forgot the moral equivalency between humiliation and hacking a persons head off with a machete.
  4. #884  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Mangus+Coloradas

    You should probably tell the whole story.
    The whole story, that a tribal leader was tortured, killed and beheaded? It doesn't get better in the telling.

    Surur
  5. #885  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Yup, I have no doubt that it did. Just like it sucks TODAY
    • to be a child blown up because you wanted a chocolate bar from a soldier,
    • or blown to 30 pieces over 50 sq yards with the rest of your family because you wanted to take celebrate your son's birthday by going out to a nice dinner,
    • or being blown up on your wedding day 20 minutes after the ceremony,
    • or having your head slowing sawed off by hand because you committed the fatal crime of being a reporter,
    • or blown to into a pink mist because you were trying to be friendly to the enviroment and decided to ride the bus to work that day,
    • or to have 23 pieces of shrapnel projected through your body by a road side bomb set by other citizens of your own country......
    Your point being?

    Surur
  6. #886  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The whole story, that a tribal leader was tortured, killed and beheaded? It doesn't get better in the telling.

    Surur
    The whole story about a tribal leader who was leading a war against US forces.
  7. #887  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Your point being?

    Surur
    Do you agree?
  8. #888  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    You're right. I guess I forgot the moral equivalency between humiliation and hacking a persons head off with a machete.

    Did you miss the part where the guy was tortured to death?

    Surur
  9. #889  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Americans would fight and if necessary, die with HONOR. We would not kill or brutalize innocent women and children to further our cause.

    Don't make the mistake of assuming that the brutality and inhumanity of the jihadist is a natural and inevitable reaction to oppression.

    Sorry to disappoint, but we'll continue to speak out and act against such savagery. NOTHING justifies the Palestinian blowing up a bus full of Israeli civilians. NOTHING.
    Hobbes, you are late to the party. I was establishing that Americans are not immune to brutalizing people. Thats the point you seem to be missing.

    I hope you dont have as rosy spectacles as him. Its easy to say it can never happen. In reality it has happened already.


    Surur
  10. #890  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Did you miss the part where the guy was tortured to death?

    Surur
    Yes, I read about that one incident. And for every one I can give you scores of stories of Muslim atrocities committed to known civilians--even children. Which is more indicative of the greater culture?
  11. #891  
    JAKARTA, Indonesia — Unidentified assailants attacked a group of high school girls on Saturday in Indonesia's tense province of Central Sulawesi, (search) beheading three and seriously wounding a fourth, police said.

    The students from a private Christian high school were ambushed while walking through a cocoa plantation in Poso Kota (search) subdistrict on their way to class, police Maj. Riky Naldo said. The rural area is close to the provincial capital of Poso, about 1,000 miles northeast of the Indonesian capital Jakarta.

    He said the heads of the three dead girls were found several miles from their bodies.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173913,00.html
  12. #892  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Yes, I read about that one incident. And for every one I can give you scores of stories of Muslim atrocities committed to known civilians--even children. Which is more indicative of the greater culture?
    I wasnt the one making the strong claim.

    We would not kill or brutalize innocent women and children to further our cause.
    Now you are weakening it to "were not as bad as you". Well, you are not under occupation. If you were at war on your home ground, either expect to go belly-up, or expect worse.

    War is hell.

    Surur
  13. #893  
    Egyptian Police 'Crucify'
    and Rape Christians
    by Christina Lamb

    London Daily Telegraph | October 25,1998

    EGYPTIAN CHRISTIANS HAVE BEEN subjected to horrific crucifixion rituals, raped and tortured by the security forces during a crackdown on the ancient Coptic community, according to international human rights and Christian groups.
    Hundreds of Copts have been rounded up in southern Egypt after suspected retaliatory killings involving local Muslims and Christians. Apart from the crucifixions, teenage girls have been raped and babies as young as three months savagely beaten.

    Most Copts are too frightened to speak about their plight. But the local bishop and two priests are now facing the death penalty for bringing the persecution to the attention of the world. To the embarrassment of President Hosni Mubarak, whose government is attempting to win back tourists after last year's Luxor massacre by Islamic militants, 29 American Congressman have now written to him to demand an end to the torture.

    The Egyptian embassy in London refused to comment last week. However, over the past month, police have reportedly detained about 1,200 Christians in Al-Kosheh, near Luxor in Upper Egypt. Seized in groups of 50 at a time, many were nailed to crosses or manacled to doors with their legs tied together, then beaten and tortured with electric shocks to their genitals, while police denounced them as "infidels." An 11-year-old boy, Romani Boctor, was hung upside down from an electric ceiling fan and tortured as the fan rotated. Young girls were raped and mothers were forced to lay their babies on the floor of police stations and watch police beat them with sticks.

    Bishop Anba Wissa, the local head of the Coptic Church, said: "It was horrific—entire families were severely beaten and tortured, and some of the children will be scarred for life. When I protested to the regional police chief, he said 'you haven't seen anything yet.' " The bishop and two priests were detained last week by police and charged on five counts including "using religion for the purpose of inciting strife and damaging national unity," charges punishable by death or life imprisonment.
    http://216.247.220.66/archives/forei...mb10-29-98.htm
  14. #894  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I wasnt the one making the strong claim.

    Now you are weakening it to "were not as bad as you". Well, you are not under occupation. If you were at war on your home ground, either expect to go belly-up, or expect worse.

    War is hell.

    Surur
    Not weakening. Just trying to get you to realize that you're not talking about individual people, but cultures, civilizations. You can point out single incidents committed by individuals but I'm showing you evidence of a mindset that's been institutionalized within these cultures.
  15. #895  
    Your point being???

    Surur
  16. #896  
    A disgraceful art exhibit in Milan has illustrated once again the deep affinity between the Left and the forces of the global jihad. In these days of Muslims the world over calling for the deaths of those who have “insulted Islam,” anyone who wants to see Oriana Fallaci beheaded need look no further than the Galleria Luciano Inga-Pin in Milan, which is exhibiting Giuseppe Veneziano’s “American Beauty” from January 19 through March 18. This is a series of paintings designed to highlight the “weakness and perversity of the ‘American way of life.’” It accordingly features straightforward, if somewhat lurid, portraits of Michael Jackson and Ronald McDonald, along with the distinctly non-American Harry Potter. Then comes a bizarre depiction of a nude man having sexual intercourse with the Pink Panther, five artistic renditions of the Abu Ghraib prison photos (each with “American Beauty” scrawled across the top), and — Oriana Fallaci’s decapitated head.
    http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/med...ge/fallaci.gif

    http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...e.asp?ID=21265
  17. #897  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Your point being???

    Surur
    Two points:

    1) Anyone can cut-and-paste.

    2) Americans are people, prone to everything everyone else is. But this is not about individual people, as I've said. Its about what appears to me to be an element of violence thats been institutionalized within a very large segment of the Islamic world.
  18. #898  
    My point is, in different circumstances, it could have been Americans doing the brutal killing. It has been in the past. No one is immune. Just look at the Nazi concentration camp workers.

    Surur
  19. #899  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Hobbes, you are late to the party. I was establishing that Americans are not immune to brutalizing people. Thats the point you seem to be missing.

    I hope you dont have as rosy spectacles as him. Its easy to say it can never happen. In reality it has happened already.


    Surur
    No I am not late as I have already answered this several times over in this thread and in others about my view of past actions, both bad and good of the USA.

    I simply noticed again that you totally avoided the current accountability of all the killings I listed again that terrorist are conducting right now today. Again.....you support lack of accountability to step up and say that the following is wrong:
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Yup, I have no doubt that it did. Just like it sucks TODAY
    • to be a child blown up because you wanted a chocolate bar from a soldier,
    • or blown to 30 pieces over 50 sq yards with the rest of your family because you wanted to take celebrate your son's birthday by going out to a nice dinner,
    • or being blown up on your wedding day 20 minutes after the ceremony,
    • or having your head slowing sawed off by hand because you committed the fatal crime of being a reporter,
    • or blown to into a pink mist because you were trying to be friendly to the enviroment and decided to ride the bus to work that day,
    • or to have 23 pieces of shrapnel projected through your body by a road side bomb set by other citizens of your own country......
    You continually claim that what the USA has done is bad....which I have not refuted. But I have also recognized that we have often times tried to recognize those mistakes. I also recognize that the USA does a lot of good, which you generally dismiss.

    If it looks like a duck.......I point out that terrorist are doing worst things today on purpose and publicly acknowledging they are trying to target and kill innocent civilians as a general policy with a political and religious goal for justification. And every time you make an excuse why it is right for them to kill.

    If it walks like a duck......SURUR.....YOU SUPPORT KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS BY ISLAMIC EXTREME TERRORIST MEANS AND METHODS. You sympathy with all the excuses of why it is Okay to kill children. Why they are justified to kill women. And why they have a RIGHT to kill innocent men.

    If it quacks like a duck......So after multiple opportunities I have given you to acknowledge that the terrorists killing innocent people are wrong you have avoided it with reasons why they need to be ignored, forgiven, sympathized with, excused, a right to act as such, ignorant to the point they don't know what they are doing.

    Then it must be a duck......I am left with the only conclusion that you are either one of three things:
    • A member of a current terrorist organization
    • A wannabe member of a terrorist organization
    • A sympathizer for members of a terrorist organization
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/13/2006 at 09:38 PM.
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    #900  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    My point is, in different circumstances, it could have been Americans doing the brutal killing. It has been in the past. No one is immune. Just look at the Nazi concentration camp workers.

    Surur
    So it is OK for muslim fanatics to murder inncoent civilian women and children since it has happened in the past. I know, you support the terrorist, so it is all OK. Bottom line is that while the Muslim religion preaches peace it practices terrorist activities. The individuals doing it are too cowardly to fight for their beliefs so they strap on bombs, or plant bombs to kill the women and children. I so respect a religion that encourages that practice. And to those who defend it, well figure it out yourself
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"

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