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  1. #821  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    It's clear you cant place yourself in the mind of another culture.

    Surur
    Sure I can. But you already showed by your many posts that you only understand the situation within a Leftist framework so there's no way you could play a pro-US point of view.
  2. cardio's Avatar
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    #822  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Well, when the 4 million Palestinians return there wont be much Israel left over. In fact it was on the Right of Return than the Clinton Peace Plan floundered.

    Surur

    Now, Now, Now, you quoted the UN resolution that determined who got what percentage of what land. Don't go googling to find something that fits your argument better. If 4 milliion palestinians want to live in that small area of land they were alloted more power to them. Do not try to push someone elso off the land they were alloted. Israel actually should reaquire some additional real estate once we go back to the land distribution in that resolution.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  3. #823  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Sure I can. But you already showed by your many posts that you only understand the situation within a Leftist framework so there's no way you could play a pro-US point of view.
    Isn't that my problem to worry about. Lets see you putting up a vigorous defense on the other side instead. Cant play Devil's Advocate?

    Surur
  4. #824  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Now, Now, Now, you quoted the UN resolution that determined who got what percentage of what land. Don't go googling to find something that fits your argument better. If 4 milliion palestinians want to live in that small area of land they were alloted more power to them. Do not try to push someone elso off the land they were alloted. Israel actually should reaquire some additional real estate once we go back to the land distribution in that resolution.
    How did you miss the point that Palestinians would be able to return to their homes INSIDE Israel, where they would have full voting rights?

    Surur
  5. #825  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Isn't that my problem to worry about. Lets see you putting up a vigorous defense on the other side instead. Cant play Devil's Advocate?

    Surur
    Who do you want us to be devil's advocates for? The people rioting in the streets or the people behind the rioters? They clearly have different motivations.
  6. #826  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    How did you miss the point that Palestinians would be able to return to their homes INSIDE Israel, where they would have full voting rights?

    Surur
    They don't want voting rights within Israel, they want Israel driven into the sea.
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    #827  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    How did you miss the point that Palestinians would be able to return to their homes INSIDE Israel, where they would have full voting rights?

    Surur
    However they only get the homes they fled from, not the ones they sold at inflated prices (the vast majority), once they sold the property they lost any claim to the property. And, Israelis would be able to return to their homes they fled from. Probably an even swap or again an increase for the Israelis.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  8. #828  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Who do you want us to be devil's advocates for? The people rioting in the streets or the people behind the rioters? They clearly have different motivations.
    The people behind the rioters. The public as usual is just unthinking rabble, to be manipulated by their superiors.

    Surur
  9. #829  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    However they only get the homes they fled from, not the ones they sold at inflated prices (the vast majority), once they sold the property they lost any claim to the property. And, Israelis would be able to return to their homes they fled from. Probably an even swap or again an increase for the Israelis.
    Again, you did not follow the thread. Only around 10% of the property in Israel belong to Jewish immigrants through sale. The rest was confiscated after the Palestinians fled a terror regime by Israel.

    Surur
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    #830  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Again, you did not follow the thread. Only around 10% of the property in Israel belong to Jewish immigrants through sale. The rest was confiscated after the Palestinians fled a terror regime by Israel.

    Surur
    I have no idea where you pulled that number from. In actuallity I believe the majority of land and homes in Israel belong to govt's that lease to individuals.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  11. #831  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The people behind the rioters. The public as usual is just unthinking rabble, to be manipulated by their superiors.

    Surur
    Well, then I have to say that since the Qu'ran says to put all non-believers into submission I have a duty to fight against the infidel powers until they either submit to the authority of Allah and his prophet or die.

    Part of this duty is to try to supplant the authority of any government that I believe to be working against Allah, especially those whom he is angry: Israel and the Jews. And what is a better way to fight Israel than to rally the people within its borders?

    There, how's that?
  12. #832  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Again, you did not follow the thread. Only around 10% of the property in Israel belong to Jewish immigrants through sale. The rest was confiscated after the Palestinians fled a terror regime by Israel.

    Surur
    You mean after Palestinians fled the coming war in which the Arabs would push the Jews into the sea?
  13. #833  
    Putting myself in the place of the rulers of the west, the Middle East is now of strategic interest (due to oil), which makes it important to place and keep friendly governments in the area. Also when the Jewish state was settled (1940-50's) a Jewish return to Israel seemed self-evident (biblically speaking). Now we are stuck with a fact on the ground, and giving way to forces hostile to the west would appear to be a sign of weakness. There is NO way we would leave Israel at the mercy of the Arabs. It would be Vietnam x 10.

    There are multiple reasons for our policies, but we also believe that in the end our policies are for the best, as whats good for America is good for the world, and areas where our intervention succeeded (Germany, Japan, South Korea) are democratic and prosperous. Due to this we sleep well at night.

    Surur
  14. #834  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    You mean after Palestinians fled the coming war in which the Arabs would push the Jews into the sea?
    I dont have to argue that point, as long as you clearly acknowledge that most of the land of Israel is confiscated, not bought.

    Surur
  15. #835  
    Okay, I have some issues with your representation, as I'm sure you would with mine. But, just take a time out for a second and look at the two positions each of us has laid out. Which seems more reasonable and which would you think to be better for the world?
  16. #836  
    Ive said before I have no problem with the American Ideal, but I also want more consideration for the rest of the world, and more fairness to smaller countries. America was already winning the culture war, but they have created a lot of bad publicity for themselves, especially acting in overt self-interest even against the interest of their other western partners.

    Surur
  17. #837  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I dont have to argue that point, as long as you clearly acknowledge that most of the land of Israel is confiscated, not bought.

    Surur
    There is quite a difference, don't you think? Taking land that you used terror to drive inhabitants out of is an act not easily defended. Taking land of people who left it and you behind while you were slaughtered is understandable. I mean, I know I wouldn't want to have those people move back into my neighborhood. "Hey, Harry. Glad you survived the massacre. I'll just move right back in here and pretend nothing happened, okay?"
  18. #838  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Ive said before I have no problem with the American Ideal, but I also want more consideration for the rest of the world, and more fairness to smaller countries. America was already winning the culture war, but they have created a lot of bad publicity for themselves, especially acting in overt self-interest even against the interest of their other western partners.

    Surur
    How so? I mean, which partners did we snub?
  19. #839  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    How so? I mean, which partners did we snub?
    Many countries and institutions, in various ways. The UN especially has been unsupported. Most recently the Kyoto protocol comes to mind. There are those that say climate change is a bigger threat that terrorism.

    Surur
  20. #840  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Whats with you people? Cant you understand a hypothetical situation. I did not say anyone was going to occupy your country. I meant you could not talk until your country was occupied.
    Americans would fight and if necessary, die with HONOR. We would not kill or brutalize innocent women and children to further our cause.

    Don't make the mistake of assuming that the brutality and inhumanity of the jihadist is a natural and inevitable reaction to oppression.

    Sorry to disappoint, but we'll continue to speak out and act against such savagery. NOTHING justifies the Palestinian blowing up a bus full of Israeli civilians. NOTHING.
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