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  1. #801  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    ive read over your statements here, surur. i think as far as idiotic statements, YOURS take the gold.

    you resort to namecalling, classic! why dont you concede the fact that if al qaeda hadnt bombed america, your lands wouldnt be occupied as they are now? can you address this fact? or will you continue to evade that point?

    dont you ever pay attention, surur? it looks to me like your attention is SELECTIVE. you choose only what fits into YOUR view of the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    That is one of the dumbest posts in this thread (and that's saying a lot).
    Hey, I didnt start it (but funny you did not notice that post)

    If 11 September did not happen, would Palestine still be occupied? Simple yes or no answer would do.

    Surur
  2. #802  
    Do you believe that these muslim fundamentalists are in the right and will be rewarded in heaven for their acts even though it supposidly goes against islam? Or do you believe they are going to hell? A simple Heaven or Hell response will do.
  3. #803  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Do you believe that these muslim fundamentalists are in the right and will be rewarded in heaven for their acts even though it supposidly goes against islam? Or do you believe they are going to hell? A simple Heaven or Hell response will do.
    I dont believe they are fighting for religion, but for their homeland. Religion has very little to do with it, except to provide a common language for the oppressed people. There is no heaven or hell. I hope you dont also believe in fairies and unicorns.

    Surur
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    #804  
    my answer to you surur is "No". I don't think its occupied now.
  5. cardio's Avatar
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    #805  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    That is the single most idiotic post ever.

    Are you forgetting the last 10 pages about Jewish occupation of Palestine, with American support?

    Do you actually think everything started at 11 September 2001? Dont you ever pay attention?

    Surur
    I know, I know, I said I was done, but I am really curious as to what date you have determined to allow the land we call Israel to be alloted to the tribe that is in place? Do we use current day, 1968, 1962, 1948, 1947, 1912, 1845, 100 AD, 4000 BC, or what and when you do pick a date do we return all land to the peoples/tribes that occupied that land at that time across the globe or just the lands you decide?

    Please try to refrain from going into a different topic, I don't care what color your shoes are, who you think shot JFK, why the Canadians lost the gold in hockery or any thing else, just an answer to the questions posted.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  6. #806  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Hey, I didnt start it (but funny you did not notice that post)

    If 11 September did not happen, would Palestine still be occupied? Simple yes or no answer would do.

    Surur
    The Government of Israel in its public statements and many of Israel's citizens and supporters dispute that the territories are occupied and claim that use of the term "occupied" in relation to Israel's control of the areas has no basis in international law or history, and that it prejudges the outcome of any future or ongoing negotiations. They argue it is more accurate to refer to the territories as "disputed" rather than "occupied" although they agree to apply the humanitarian provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention pending resolution of the dispute. However, the government of Israel has always argued before the Supreme Court of Israel that its authority in the territories is based on the international law of "belligerent occupation", in particular the Hague Conventions. The court has confirmed this interprettation many times, for example in its 2004 and 2005 rulings on the separation fence.

    From Wikipedia....So Israel says it's not occupied.
  7. #807  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I dont believe they are fighting for religion, but for their homeland. Religion has very little to do with it, except to provide a common language for the oppressed people. There is no heaven or hell. I hope you dont also believe in fairies and unicorns.

    Surur

    Alright...I haven't read the whole thread but....are you saying that muslim fundamentalists don't have much to do with religion? I thought the whole thread started b/c of muslim hypocrisy...i.e. religious fanatics killing for their religion even though their religion says don't.
  8. #808  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I know, I know, I said I was done, but I am really curious as to what date you have determined to allow the land we call Israel to be alloted to the tribe that is in place? Do we use current day, 1968, 1962, 1948, 1947, 1912, 1845, 100 AD, 4000 BC, or what and when you do pick a date do we return all land to the peoples/tribes that occupied that land at that time across the globe or just the lands you decide?
    As many of owners of the land are still alive, as well as their children who inherited the claim, I would have to say as long as people are still trying to get it, and a judicial process can accurately decide who is in the wrong. Also would you not say WW II marked a point where we recognized that brute force wasn't what it was all about, leading to the decolonization of many countries that were ruled unfairly by powerful imported minorities (South Africa and India comes to mind).

    I remind you that Gulf War I was about ejecting Iraq from Kuwait. Why did Iraq not suddenly get sovereignty of Iraq, as the were occupying it for a week? Where do you draw the line?

    For an example of whats expected in modern times, see the invasion and occupation of Cyprus by Turkey. The Greek Cypriots, after 30 years, still want their homes back.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 02/13/2006 at 03:20 PM.
  9. #809  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    From Wikipedia....So Israel says it's not occupied.
    No surprise there, is there? This is one case where controlling the language of the debate has no succeeded.

    Surur
  10. #810  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Alright...I haven't read the whole thread but....are you saying that muslim fundamentalists don't have much to do with religion? I thought the whole thread started b/c of muslim hypocrisy...i.e. religious fanatics killing for their religion even though their religion says don't.
    The story is long and complex, and I can only tell you what I understand.

    1) Most Muslims feels solidarity with the Palestinians and their plight.
    2) The ongoing occupation of Palestine is a source of bad publicity for the west, as it happens with their active approval and aid.
    3) Terrorism in Israel and Iraq is not the same a 911.
    4) 911 is mostly inspired by a grand agenda for ejecting all Western influences from the middle east, and returning the area to a theocracy.
    5) Restaurant bombings in Israel is about terrorizing Israelis into leaving Israel.
    6) The hubbub about the cartoons is being fanned by people who want to work against western influences, including possibly the same people who inspired 911. This is in some way religiously inspired.
    7) If America was not so involved in the Middle East they would not have been a target in any of this.
    8) America is not being targeted in the Danish cartoon problem, which shows it has nothing to do with Iraq or Palestine.

    Surur
  11. cardio's Avatar
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    #811  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    As many of owners of the land are still alive, as well as their children who inherited the claim, I would have to say as long as people are still trying to get it, and a judicial process can accurately decide who is in the wrong. Also would you not say WW II marked a point where we recognized that brute force wasn't what it was all about, leading to the decolonization of many countries that were ruled unfairly by powerful imported minorities (South Africa and India comes to mind).

    I remind you that Gulf War I was about ejecting Iraq from Kuwait. Why did Iraq not suddenly get sovereignty of Iraq, as the were occupying it for a week? Where do you draw the line?

    For an example of whats expected in modern times, see the invasion and occupation of Cyprus by Turkey. They Greek Cypriots, after 30 years, still want their homes back.

    Surur
    So, no answer to the question as usual, as usual you bring in other topics instead of answering. You feel the court should decide who the land of Israel belongs, I agree and so did the UN.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  12. #812  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    So, no answer to the question as usual, as usual you bring in other topics instead of answering. You feel the court should decide who the land of Israel belongs, I agree and so did the UN.
    Its senseless to ask for an exact number, isn't it? How is historical precedents not relevant.

    BTW: UN resolution 194 recognized the Right to Return in Israel.

    Surur
  13. cardio's Avatar
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    #813  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its senseless to ask for an exact number, isn't it? How is historical precedents not relevant.

    Surur
    If you insist on stating the Israel is occupying the land, you must provide a date that someone has a legit claim to the land. Once it is determined when land was allocated then you should be able to go back and return all land to rightful owners.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  14. #814  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    If you insist on stating the Israel is occupying the land, you must provide a date that someone has a legit claim to the land. Once it is determined when land was allocated then you should be able to go back and return all land to rightful owners.
    Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Gene...Resolution_194

    Surur
  15. #815  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    If America was occupied, say by China, in 2075, are you and your children just going to roll over and eat your bamboo shoots?

    Surur
    No we wouldn't just roll over. But another thing we wouldn't do is attack innocent civilians.

    What we would most likely do is band together as a people and attack our occupiers, specifically our occupiers. I can't forsee blowing up women, children - or men for that matter - who just sat down to eat a pizza in the mall.
  16. cardio's Avatar
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    #816  
    Since you refer to this resolution you must agree with the 78% - 22% split of the land (78% jewish and 22% palestine) that tags along with the resolution. Guess that means that Israel is a legit country after all.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  17. #817  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Gore Laments U.S. 'Abuses' Against Arabs



    When I read stories like this about Democrats making up stories for political gain, I don't blame arabs for thinking so negatively against the US. I think Gore is a special agent for Al Quada.
    He's too stupid to the a special agent for anyone. But at least he's shaving that pathetic wannabe intellectual beard again.
  18. #818  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Has it occured to you that you just dont want to hear anything that contradicts your world view? How about an exercise in flexibility. How about you argue the muslim case, and I'll argue the American/Western side? Maybe it will be a learning experience for us both?

    Surur
    It's clear you have no grasp on Western motivations so it would be a ridiculous venture.
  19. #819  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Since you refer to this resolution you must agree with the 78% - 22% split of the land (78% jewish and 22% palestine) that tags along with the resolution. Guess that means that Israel is a legit country after all.
    Well, when the 4 million Palestinians return there wont be much Israel left over. In fact it was on the Right of Return than the Clinton Peace Plan floundered.

    Surur
  20. #820  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    It's clear you have no grasp on Western motivations so it would be a ridiculous venture.
    It's clear you cant place yourself in the mind of another culture.

    Surur

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