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  1. #721  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    I beg to differ. That declaration made Jews travel there en mass. And, despite whatever people say about Israel being democratic, I think its anything but. When they moved in, original home owners were driven out of thier homes. Not the "I can't pay this mortgage anymore" drive out, I'm talking breaking the door, killing people, throwing the rest of the family out, getting bulldozers to come & tear down houses on the spot. Next day rubble is removed to build colonies to "develop the land".
    Can you cite some sources?

    Thanks.
  2. #722  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Can you cite some sources?

    Thanks.
    Early in the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun (headed by Menachem Begin) and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. The village lay outside of the area to be assigned by the United Nations to the Jewish State; it had a peaceful reputation. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Deir Yassin was slated for occupation under Plan Dalet and the mainstream Jewish defense force, the Haganah, authorized the irregular terrorist forces of the Irgun and the Stern Gang to perform the takeover.

    In all over 100 men, women, and children were systematically murdered. Fifty-three orphaned children were literally dumped along the wall of the Old City, where they were found by Miss Hind Husseini and brought behind the American Colony Hotel to her home, which was to become the Dar El-Tifl El-Arabi orphanage.

    Part of the struggle for self-determination by Palestinians has been to tell the truth about Palestinians as victims of Zionism. For too long their history has been denied, and this denial has only served to further oppress and deliberately dehumanize Palestinians in Israel, inside the occupied territories, and outside in their diaspora.

    Some progress has been made. Westerners now realize that Palestinians, as a people, do exist. And they have come to acknowledge that during the creation of the state of Israel, thousands of Palestinians were killed and over 700,000 were driven or frightened from their homes and lands on which they had lived for centuries.

    Deir Yassin Remembered seeks similar progress on behalf of the victims of the Deir Yassin Massacre . . .
    http://www.deiryassin.org/index1.html

    More detail.
    April 9, 1948: A combined force of Irgun and Stern Gangs committed a brutal massacre of 260 Arab residents of the village of Deir Yassin. Most of whom were women and children. The Israeli hordes even attacked the dead to satisfy their bestial tendencies. In April, 1954, during Holy Week, and on the eve of Easter, The Christian cemeteries in Haifa were invaded, crosses broken down and trampled under the feet of these miscreants, and the tombs desecrated. The Israeli military conquest, therefore was made against a defenseless people, who had been softened up by such earlier massacres as Deir Yasin (where 250 Arabs; men, women and children were massacred).

    The Jew, Weizman, referred to the massacre as this "miraculous simplification of our task," and Ben Gurion said that "without Deir Yasin there would be no Israel." Americans are not told that ten percent of the Arabs killed by the Israelis in 1948 were Christian, and that ten percent of the Arab property confiscated belonged to Christians. Nor are they told that Israel's massacres and military actions forced 100,000 Christians to become refugees.

    Accounts by Red Cross and United Nations observers who visited the scene said that the houses were first set on fire and the occupants were shot down as they came out to escape the flames. One pregnant woman had her baby cut out of her stomach with a knife. Reminiscent of the acts committed by their brother Jews in Russia during and after the Bolshevik (Jewish) takeover. The head of the International Red Cross delegation in Palestine, Jacques de Reynier, drove into the village and was met by a detachment of Irgun terrorists. In his report of the massacre the previous night, he wrote: "All of them were young, some even adolescents, men and women armed to the teeth: revolvers, machine-guns, hand-grenades, and knives, most of them still blood-stained. A beautiful young girl with criminal eyes showed me hers (knife) still dripping with blood, she displayed it like a trophy."

    May 1948: The U.S. appointed Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden to mediate between the Arabs and the Israelis. In his first progress report (of Sept. 16, 1948) he recommended that the U.N. should affirm "the right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish controlled territory at the earliest possible date." The Israelis responded in their own quiet way. The following day Bernadotte was murdered in Jerusalem.
    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 02/12/2006 at 11:07 AM.
  3. #723  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    1) Sad, put provocation is an excuse used in rape crimes (or so I heard) same here I guess.

    2) nice
    1) Dunno about over there, but here it is most definitely not accepted an an excuse.
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  4. #724  
    This if for Hoovs, who insist the Jewish settlers bought all the land they now own in Israel.



    Also please read this article The Alienation of a Homeland: How Palestine became Israel. (pdf) where its from.

    Ironically Israel was born from terrorist acts.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 02/12/2006 at 11:08 AM.
  5. #725  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    This if for Hoovs, who insist the Jewish settlers bought all the land they now own in Israel.
    Does this discussion of how Palestine became Israel not beg the question of how "Palestine" itself came into being? Who was conquered and evicted to make way for the people who would become known as Palestinians? Or have they been there since the beginning of time?

    I'm not - I don't know and am curious.
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  6. #726  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Does this discussion of how Palestine became Israel not beg the question of how "Palestine" itself came into being? Who was conquered and evicted to make way for the people who would become known as Palestinians? Or have they been there since the beginning of time?

    I'm not - I don't know and am curious.
    Interesting question. You are obviously referring to the Jewish diaspora under Roman rule. I must remind you that the Israelites themselves ejected the native Canaanites (In fact, due to the genocide of the Canaanites, as supposedly ordered by the God of the Jews, its unlikely the Palestinians are decendent of them.)

    Surur
  7. #727  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You are obviously referring to the Jewish diaspora under Roman rule.
    I'm thinking farther back than that, actually. The Jews had to have come from somewhere, no?
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  8. #728  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    While I'm not interested in defending the atrocities of the Irgun, and there were many, I don't think history is well-served by exaggerating them (your second source was particularly suspect). Deir Yassin should be understood in the context of an ongoing civil war. Its not like it came out of nowhere. And the Arabs were not completely innocent. In retaliation to Deir Yassin, 70 Jewish aid workers were killed.

    Still Deir Yassin is so well-remembered exactly because it was not an everyday occurance. It was an act carried out by an extremist group whose actions were repeatedly condemned and whose members were sought after and arrested by the Haganah.

    I would implore you to not restrict your reading to propaganda sources.
  9. #729  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    This if for Hoovs, who insist the Jewish settlers bought all the land they now own in Israel.



    Also please read this article The Alienation of a Homeland: How Palestine became Israel. (pdf) where its from.

    Ironically Israel was born from terrorist acts.

    Surur
    Another suspect source from, oddly, a fairly respectable think tank. Two things pop out that concern me about this article's veracity: the author uses the discredited 254 casualty count from the Deir Yassin massacre and even inflates it to 260 (as though 120 wasn't bad enough). Second, although the Palestinians mostly left the area voluntarily (expecting that their Arab neighbors would win the battle and they would be able to return after the fighting) the author calls this an "expulsion".
    Last edited by hoovs; 02/12/2006 at 12:22 PM.
  10. #730  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Still Deir Yassin is so well-remembered exactly because it was not an everyday occurance.

    The massacre of Qibya - 14.10.1953

    On the night of October 14-15, 1953, this village was the object of an Israeli attack which was carried out by units from the regular army and in which a variety of weapon types were used. On the evening of October 14, an Israeli military force estimated at about 600 soldiers moved toward the village. Upon arrival, it surrounded it and cordoned it off from all of the other Arab villages. The attack began with concentrated, indiscriminate artillery fire on the homes in the village. This continued until the main force reached the outskirts of the village. Meanwhile, other forces headed for nearby Arab towns such as Shuqba, Badrus and Na'lin in order to distract them and prevent any aid from reaching the people in Qibya. They also planted mines on various roads so as to isolate the village completely. As units of the Israeli army were attacking the village residents, units of military engineers were placing explosives around some of the houses in the village and blowing them up with everyone in them. This attack continued until 4:00 A.M., October 15, 1953, at which time the Israeli forces withdrew to the bases from which they had begun.

    This terrorist attack resulted in the destruction of 56 houses, the village mosque, the village school and the water tank . Moreover, 67 citizens lost their lives, both men and women, with many others wounded.

    Terrorist Ariel Sharon, the commander of the "101" unit which undertook the terrorist aggression, stated that his leaders' orders had been clear with regard to how the residents of the village were to be dealt with. He says, "The orders were utterly clear: Qibya was to be an example to everyone."

    The government of Israel claimed that the massacre was carried out by “civilian Jewish settlers”. But records showed that it was sanctioned by acting Prime Minister Moshe Sharrett, and was planned by Defence Minister Pin Has Lavon, the Chief of General Staff Mordacai Maklet, and Chief of Operations, General Moshe Dayan. On October 26, General Van Bennike testified before the UN Security Council. He gave irrefutable evidence that the attack on Qibya was undertaken by regular army units of Israel and not by irregulars as claimed by official Israeli sources.
    29 MARCH 1954
    On 29 March at 0700 hours, Nahalin village, an Israel armed force, well equipped, surrounded the village from three directions and penetrated inside the village and opened fire from different automatic weapons, threw hand-grenades and placed mines at some houses, including the mosque of the village. As a result of this brutal attack, 9 persons-8 men and 1 woman-were killed, and 14 others were injured and taken to hospital. Fire lasted for about one hour and a half, and was returned by the village guards. Then the aggressors withdrew. Mines, grenades and other warlike materials bearing Hebrew markings were found on the spot.

    This bold attack and cold-blooded murder by Israelis against an innocent Jordanian village constitutes a serious breach of article 111, paragraph 2, of the General Armistice Agreement.
    There's many more...

    Massacres Committed by the Jews in Palestine
    A Partial List

    The worst of the massacres were the King David Hotel,
    the Semiramis Hotel, Deir Yassin, Dawayma, Kibya, Kafr
    Kassim, the attack against the USS
    Liberty and the Libyan Boeing 727 Airliner, and the
    massacres against Sabra and Shatila and other refugee camps
    in Lebanon. Following are just a few
    of the many massacres committed by the Jewish/Zionists;
    specifically the Hagana, Irgun and Stern Gangs of Israel:
    The Massacre of

    1. King David Hotel, July 22, 1946.
    2. Sharafat, Feb. 7, 1951.
    3. Deir Yassin, April 10, 1948.
    4. Naseruddine, April 14, 1948.
    5. Carmel, April 20, 1948.
    6. Al-Qabu, May 1, 1948.
    7. Beit Kiras, May 3, 1948.
    8. Beitkhoury, May 5, 1948.
    9. Az-Zaytoun, May 6, 1948.
    10. Wadi Araba, May 13, 1950.
    11. Falameh, April 2, 1951.
    12. Quibya, Oct. 14, 1953.
    13. Nahalin, March, 28, 1954.
    14. Gaza, Feb. 28, 1955.
    15. Khan Yunis, May 31, 1955.
    16. Khan Yunis Again, Aug. 31, 1955.
    17. Tiberia, Dec. 11, 1955.
    18. As-Sabha, Nov. 2, 1955.
    19. Gaza Again, April 5, 1956.
    20. Houssan, Sept. 25, 1956.
    21. Rafa, Aug. 16, 1956.
    22. Qalqilyah, Oct. 10, 1956.
    23. Ar-Rahwa, Sept. 12, 1956.
    24. Kahr Kassem, Oct. 29, 1956.
    25. Gharandal, Sept. 13, 1956.
    26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    It was an act carried out by an extremist group whose actions were repeatedly condemned and whose members were sought after and arrested by the Haganah.
    ... and Jewish terrorists eventually became Prime Minister. Doesnt sound as if much punishment went on.

    Surur
  11. #731  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Second, although the Palestinians mostly left the area voluntarily (expecting that their Arab neighbors would win the battle and they would be able to return after the fighting) the author calls this an "expulsion".
    Yes, fleeing in terror is very voluntary. Its also a good excuse for confiscating the land 3 years later.

    Surur
  12. #732  
    Note the phrase "Terrorist Ariel Sharon"? Again, surur, you might want to start quoting from more credible sources.
  13. #733  
    But we digress. This thread is about the Muslims rioters, is it not?
  14. #734  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Another suspect source from, oddly, a fairly respectable think tank. Two things pop out that concern me about this article's veracity:
    Look it up yourself.

    http://www.mises.org/jlsDisplay.asp?...=4&submit=View

    Surur
  15. #735  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Note the phrase "Terrorist Ariel Sharon"? Again, surur, you might want to start quoting from more credible sources.
    From butcher to 'Lion' to Prime Minister of Israel

    Fifty years ago Ariel Sharon terrorised a Palestinian village. Now he will lead Israel. In Qibya Jason Burke unravels his past

    Special report: Israel and the Middle East

    Sunday February 4, 2001
    The Observer
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...433318,00.html

    Surur
  16. #736  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    But we digress. This thread is about the Muslims rioters, is it not?
    To bring it back on topic then. The Muslim rioters are probably being inflamed by others with a hidden agenda. Years of being abused in the Middle-East has made it easy. The hidden agenda is supposedly focused on creating a Muslim theocratic super-state in the middle east. This probably does not involve Israel existing. I wont shed any tears if they dont however.

    Surur
  17. #737  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    This probably does not involve Israel existing. I wont shed any tears if they dont however.
    So you're cool with a member state of the UN being removed from the face of the Earth? Surely there is no peaceful means to eliminate Israel. How many Israelis would have to die before you would shed a tear? The entire population?
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  18. #738  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    So you're cool with a member state of the UN being removed from the face of the Earth? Surely there is no peaceful means to eliminate Israel. How many Israelis would have to die before you would shed a tear? The entire population?
    He would like them all gone. No tears lost. No sweat off his back.

    He makes a nice statement of the Israeli Charter, claiming a "Jewish" state as being racist. He needs to take a nice long look in the mirror.

    Odd how Mr. "Hypocrisy" can be so hypocritical himself.

    America = meddlers.
    However, "Meddling" in Israel is fine though, as long as the The Zionists are driven into the sea...


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  19. #739  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    So you're cool with a member state of the UN being removed from the face of the Earth? Surely there is no peaceful means to eliminate Israel. How many Israelis would have to die before you would shed a tear? The entire population?
    If you have read all the documents I have quoted it should be very clear Israel has no right to exist at all. They are a terrorist state that won their land by aggression, not peaceful means (and this is in modern times).

    Only 20% of Jewish Israelites are born there. The rest can go back to where they came from, and return the land to those they stole it from, who now live outside its borders in refugee camps.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 02/12/2006 at 01:47 PM.
  20. #740  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    He would like them all gone. No tears lost. No sweat off his back.

    He makes a nice statement of the Israeli Charter, claiming a "Jewish" state as being racist. He needs to take a nice long look in the mirror.

    Odd how Mr. "Hypocrisy" can be so hypocritical himself.

    America = meddlers.
    However, "Meddling" in Israel is fine though, as long as the The Zionists are driven into the sea...

    Insertion, you are not paying attention. I showed that Israel is being supported by America. If America stopped "meddling" the region would solve their Israeli problem themselves.

    Maybe if America stopped Veto-ing of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel the world community could do something about it also?

    Surur

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