Page 34 of 46 FirstFirst ... 24293031323334353637383944 ... LastLast
Results 661 to 680 of 914
  1. #661  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $none$, $but$ $then$ $he$ $would$ $have$ $to$ $get$ $there$ $by$ $the$ $normal$ $democratic$ $process$, $and$ $due$ $to$ $the$ $small$ $number$ $of$ $Jews$ $would$ $need$ $to$ $be$ $elected$ $by$ $Arabs$. $Also$ $many$ $of$ $these$ $countries$ $do$ $not$ $have$ $normal$ $democratic$ $processes$, $and$ $some$ $also$ $have$ $restrictions$ $on$ $the$ $religion$ $of$ $the$ $heads$ $of$ $state$ $and$ $ministers$.

    How is this relevant to leaving 20% of your nominal population, and 50% of the people you rule unrepresented?

    Surur
    Any why do you think there is such a small Jewish population in those countries?

    Did you know that before the Islamic Revolution in 1979 there were over 80,000 Jews in Iran? Did you know that before the pro-Nazi, pro-Islamist coup of 1941 there were over 100,000 Jews in Iraq? One was even the first Minister of Finance after Iraqs first elections. What happened? Where did they all go and why?
  2. #662  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    We were talking about the demographics of Israel, were we not. Not Egypt.

    Surur
    Of course. That's all that matters, those damn Zionists.

    I asked to name me the Jew that sits in any of those Governments. You could not, but instead of admitting there may be a hint of hatred, or at least some bias, you google me silly links without the specific answer I asked for.

    Let's not get into the demographics of those other nations. As I doubt a Jew would feel very welcome.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #663  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Any why do you think there is such a small Jewish population in those countries?

    Did you know that before the Islamic Revolution in 1979 there were over 80,000 Jews in Iran? Did you know that before the pro-Nazi, pro-Islamist coup of 1941 there were over 100,000 Jews in Iraq? One was even the first Minister of Finance after Iraqs first elections. What happened? Where did they all go and why?
    Maybe the all went to Israel? You know, that little thing called the Zionist movement?

    Surur
  4. #664  
    Jewish exodus from Arab lands
    The Jewish exodus from Arab lands is the 20th century emigration, and sometimes expulsion, of Jews, primarily Sephardi and Mizrahi, from Arab lands. About two thirds of them moved to the modern State of Israel; other common destinations included France, the United States and Canada. The ancestors of some of these Jews had lived in Arab lands since well before the advent and spread of Islam, while the ancestors of others had immigrated in later centuries. This emigration began following the establishment of Israel in 1948, and accelerated as further Arab-Israeli wars were fought and as colonized Arab nations gained independence; the process was nearly completed by a few years after the Six Day War.
    http://www.answers.com/topic/jewish-...rom-arab-lands

    This just indicated that the Zionist movement was a cause of Arab-Israeli friction.

    Surur
  5. #665  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Maybe the all went to Israel? You know, that little thing called the Zionist movement?

    Surur
    Maybe? Don't you want to do your own research on that one?

    Yes, most of the Jews left for Israel. But only after severe persecution in their own homelands of Iraq, Iran (Persia), Egypt, Lybia, Yemen, Syria, Jordan (pan-Syria), etc.

    Try to blame it on the Zionists but the Zionist movement is over 120 years old. Most of this happened after the partition vote.
  6. #666  
    The two processes went hand-in-hand (Zionism and persecution) As Zionism increased, so did persecution, culminating in the establishment of Israel. Do you think the Arabs were happy to see their land stolen?

    Surur
  7. #667  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The two processes went hand-in-hand (Zionism and persecution) As Zionism increased, so did persecution, culminating in the establishment of Israel. Do you think the Arabs were happy to see their land stolen?

    Surur
    Stolen? You mean bought? Like I said, in 1900 there were 400,000 to 700,000 Arabs in the area of Palestine. Only after the Jews came and brought agriculture and jobs did the Arab population spike to almost a million. How does this make it their land?
  8. #668  
    This comes courtesy of one of surur's links--ironically meant to support the idea that Israel is racist. It's from a Israeli Jewish poet:

    Who is Tawfik Tubi? A Knesset member,
    a Communist, an Arab who sits
    in that House by full right...
    That's democracy, not always easy,
    but if we don't understand this part,
    we haven't gotten anything at all.


    Wow, that's pretty racist.
  9. #669  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    This comes courtesy of one of surur's links--ironically meant to support the idea that Israel is racist. It's from a Israeli Jewish poet:

    Who is Tawfik Tubi? A Knesset member,
    a Communist, an Arab who sits
    in that House by full right...
    That's democracy, not always easy,
    but if we don't understand this part,
    we haven't gotten anything at all.


    Wow, that's pretty racist.
    I didn't say their democracy was racist. I said the way you expected it to be (with Arab Muslims not represented, and not full citizens) was racists. Also excluding the occupied population while still ruling them is wrong.

    Surur
  10. #670  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I didn't say their democracy was racist. I said the way you expected it to be (with Arab Muslims not represented, and not full citizens) was racists. Also excluding the occupied population while still ruling them is wrong.

    Surur
    What do you mean the way I expected it to be? I said nothing about Arab Muslims not being represented. I only said that the Consitution defines Israel as a democratic and Jewish state.
  11. #671  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    What do you mean the way I expected it to be? I said nothing about Arab Muslims not being represented. I only said that the Consitution defines Israel as a democratic and Jewish state.
    We were talking about Arabs gaining political power in Israel, and you said this was impossible because:

    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    ...the Israeil Constitution defines Israel as a democratic and Jewish state. Which means that if Israeli Arabs want to change that bassic precept they're going to have to fight for it. And if they do, they will lose.
    Why would they have to fight for it. Why not just vote to change it. In a democracy the majority can change the rules. Admit it. You did not think, despite being 20% of the population, they were given any political representation. Surprise to you that they were.

    Surur
  12. #672  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    We were talking about Arabs gaining political power in Israel, and you said this was impossible because:



    Why would they have to fight for it. Why not just vote to change it. In a democracy the majority can change the rules. Admit it. You did not think, despite being 20% of the population, they were given any political representation. Surprise to you that they were.

    Surur
    I'm not sure what you're talking about. I knew they had political representation. You were the one trying to act like they were treated like South African Blacks. Don't try to confuse the issue.

    As far as the Israeli Consitution, like other Consitutions, there are some basic tenets that cannot be changed. I'm not sure of the requirements for making changes in the consitution but I am pretty sure that one of those that cannot be changed is that Israel is a Jewish state. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be Israel.
  13. #673  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Wasn't Hitler democratically elected and legally appointed chancellor of Germany? And WW I was caused by the assignation of royalty.

    Again, it sounds as if you are sloganeering. Where exactly are these historical examples you learnt from?
    Are you seriously suggesting Nazi Germany was a democracy with freedom? And you expect anyone to take you seriously?

    Sloganeering? Observing history, I would say. Sorry you have such trouble making logical inferences from readily observable occurances.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  14. #674  
    Actually Germany was based on elections, at least up until the rise of the Nazi Party. I believe Hitler was really appointed Chancellor...not elected as Surur eluded to....but none the less his rise to office was due largely to propaganda often times based on half truths and flat out lies. He new he could not win the next election. He feared the dem process. So when one of their State buildings burned down, he doctored a confession from a known communist found near the building just after the fire. They did this because the Pres of Germany (or whatever his title was) was fearful of the communists that were literally knocking on their door (at least politically with underlying physical threats). So in the doctored confession, the fire was suppose to be a signal for the other communists planted in Germany to start a planed revolution to overthrow the gov. So Hitler had the Pres grant something equal to Marsh Law with all power given to Hitler. Still following the lie of the revolution he used his SA (otherwise known as the Brown Shirts I believe or something like that) to stop political opponents, seize control of other arms of the gov, control the press, etc....all of this so he can pass a premeditated law that he knew he could not pass without him having the power to do so....a law to demolish the democracy and to keep his office of power eternally effective.

    This is just off memory.....but I think it is pretty close to how Germany turned from Democratic to a Dictatorship within just a matter of months.



    EDIT: I wanted to double check myself, and I was close but missed a point or two. Here is a good quote I googled:

    Q: Was Hitler democratically elected as Chancellor of Germany in 1933?

    A: Yes. Of course he was.

    However, because the office of Chancellor was not filled by popular election, it might be more accurate to say that Hitler was constitutionally chosen to be the Chancellor of Germany, a democratic nation. The point is, there was nothing about Hitler's appointment as Chancellor (30 Jan. 1933) which violated the Constitution of Germany. President Hindenburg legally selected the leader of the largest party in Parliament to head up a coalition government. It has happened hundreds of times throughout history without being considered undemocratic.

    Only in light of later events does it become obvious that this was the beginning of the end of democratic rule in Germany. If Hitler had suddenly died in office before the Reichtag Fire (27 Feb. 1933) gave him the excuse to crush the opposition, history would record the uninterrupted flow of democracy in Germany in 1933. Granted, the window of opportunity for Hitler to leave a legacy as a proper democrat was only open for a single month, but that could have been enough.

    The myth that Hitler slipped into power by way of an illegal backroom deal which bypassed the constitution is more comforting than considering that maybe laws and democratic constitutions are not foolproof safeguards against the emergence of tyrants. If a constitutionally valid plurality want tyranny, they'll get it.
    Here is some more detailed additional information on Hitlers power grab:

    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...ctatorship.htm

    http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H..._Road_to_Power
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/11/2006 at 02:43 AM.
  15. #675  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Google me this,

    How many Jews are on the Saudi Arabian Council of Ministers?

    How many Jews are on the Iranian Majles-e-Shura-ye-Eslami? (Hint: Eslami should tell you something)

    How many Jews in the Jordanian Parliament?

    Syria??

    But none of these would be racist or anti-Semite, now would they?
    If jews exist in these countries there are a very small minority.
    We don't have any Japanese in these councils or hindu's. So??
    Thats not a strong point, Insertion
  16. #676  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Why do I need to know the answers when I have Google boy at my service. Besides, I'm too stooopid to look things up

    Not Christian and "Other", specifically. Give me his/her name.
    Again, not "Others..." A specific name(s) of the Jew(s).

    Don't even see "Jew" amongst the list. For someone so superior in intellect, you didn't follow instructions.
    Jews are so samll they don't event rate a 0%? Interesting. Again, his/her name please. Hell, there are so few, his/her name should pop right up!
    We have two families in Bahrain only.
    Rouben family, dealers of SHARP merchandise
    And Nono Family, they run a chain of money exchanges.

    They are citizens (Bahraini), they also have thier own temple. Still, they are no where near 1% of population.

    Happy Insertion?
  17. #677  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    1-No.
    From a common sense or Islam point of view; no. Nothing warrents it IMHO.

    2- America gave done alot of good. Its arrogant to say otherwise. However, I do think that thier motives when interfeering in other countries business is hardly noble in most cases. Its like the US government takes benefit in having a "controlled conflict" here or there.
    Redbelt, I may not agree with all that you post, but one thing I like about your posts is that I feel you are being honest about your opinion when you do post. Agreement or not put aside, honest none agenda opinion are what makes for product debates where everone can walk away more educated......even if we walk away agreeing to disagree on certain points.

    1) Glad to hear that.....I thought you turned to the Dark Side there for a little bit.

    2) I think that is an honest statement on your part. There is probably a lot of truth in it. The question comes in with how much of each point that woud determine the amount of truth, IMHO.
  18. #678  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    If jews exist in these countries there are a very small minority.
    We don't have any Japanese in these councils or hindu's. So??
    Thats not a strong point, Insertion
    I think there are two points here, redbelt:

    1) Why are there only very small Jewish minorities in these countries--many of which had sizable Jewish communities no less than 70 years ago?

    2) Surur claims that Israel is racist when there are Arab Muslims on the Knesset. But many of these Muslim countries won't even allow a person in government if they're not Muslim and many others won't allow a person in government unless they are of a specific tribe. It seems to me that Israel is an inclusive and progressive govermnent by comparison.
  19. #679  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Came in late, you kidding me?! They crazed muslim dogs would murder a Jewish politician!
    Advance

    Stop insaulting me and others. I have only been poliet with you.
  20. #680  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Redbelt, I may not agree with all that you post, but one thing I like about your posts is that I feel you are being honest about your opinion when you do post.
    Thank you. In all cases Im a man who plays videogames & runs a comic shop. I try to be impartial although I know its impossible for anyone to be so.

    And for No. 2) agreed. Almost All Americans I've met were quite nice & friendly. But we say power corrupts. If the US government has the power to dethrone governments & change the lives of millions, then the lines of morals & self benefit may blur. Your alpha & omega.

Posting Permissions