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  1. #461  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Are not "hypocrisy" and "nobility" moral designations?
    hypocrisy: insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have.
    http://www.wordreference.com/definition/hypocrisy

    Whether some-one is a hypocrite or not is not a moral judgement - its a matter of fact. If their actions are at odds with their professed beliefs, they are hypocrites. Plain and simple. Its like if you are married and you have an affair. You are an adulterer. Whether its right or wrong is not relevant to the definition.

    Surur
  2. #462  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Well Surur's retort to this will most assuredly be that she wouldn't have died if we hadn't been there, so yes, he will claim this is America's fault.

    Remember, every casualty in every war, whether military or civilian, is a direct result of American involvement. And since we didn't act quickly enough in WWI and WWII, even the casualties before we entered the war were our fault.

    Then, even though others asked for our help and we were attacked, we stuck our noses in where they didn't belong, because, you know, we should've just shrugged off the Japanese attack. We were wrong for responding.

    Of course, after we entered those wars, our soldiers and weapons were too good and we killed too many people without losing enough of our soldiers, so we were wrong for that as well.

    And we were wrong for using atomic weapons on Japan, even though they pledged to fight until the end, that surrender wasn't an option, that they would fight until the last breath had been taken by every Japanese man, woman, and child, but he thinks it's OK that Iran develop nuclear weapons because, hey, those damn Israelis just won't leave them alone, and the Iranians have to defend themselves.

    Oh, and 1500 years isn't enough time to work out the morality part of a religion, they're still feeling their way around.
    Appeal to redicule is a pretty poor argument. Tell me first how their behaviour is any different from any other group in history?

    You do not live in a special time (as I have said before). Get used to it. How about learning from history instead of repeating it.

    Surur
  3. #463  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Appeal to redicule is a pretty poor argument. Tell me first how their behaviour is any different from any other group in history?

    You do not live in a special time (as I have said before). Get used to it. How about learning from history instead of repeating it.

    Surur
    I'm not really sure how you're deriving "appeal to redicule [sic]". I know you like to argue in circles and probably have lost track of which side you've argued a few times over, but go back and reread your posts, and you'll find that most of what I just pointed out you've argued for or against, or both.

    America is responsible for 20,000,000 million deaths in war that we were a part of, regardless of who else was involved. We've acted too quickly and we haven't acted quickly enough. Regardless of the timing (even though it seemed to matter at the time of your argument), we only acted when it involved our best interests. When others pointed out the numerous times that wasn't true, you went back to that we waited too long. Our soldiers are too good and enemy casualties are too high, so that's a problem for you. But when our soldiers die, we're just getting what we deserve. Our soldiers go out of their way to protect civilian lives, but according to you, it's not far enough. When your "freedom fighters" (HAH!) kill civilians, they're too stupid or not well trained enough to prevent it, or it's just the ugliness of war.

    I'd keep going on but I'm pretty sure you've gotten the point by now, and truthfully, I hate pointing out the ignorance in your arguments. I wish I didn't have to, but apparently you're too blinded by your own issues to see it.

    And BTW, I do live in a special time. There's never been a better time to live on this planet, and it's the only time I've ever lived here. Sorry if you don't feel the same way. You must be a riot at parties.
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    #464  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The point is that your politicians could have avoided killing civilians "accidentally" by not starting an unnecessary war in the first place, in which it would be inevitable that there would be civilian casualties.

    Also, in Iraq they are called resistance fighters.

    Surur
    Tell that to the thousands upon thousands of families (civilians) that lost loved ones by the hand of Saddam.

    They are called resistance fighters in the media, in Iraq they are called terrorist.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
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  5. #465  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    http://www.wordreference.com/definition/hypocrisy

    Whether some-one is a hypocrite or not is not a moral judgement - its a matter of fact. If their actions are at odds with their professed beliefs, they are hypocrites. Plain and simple. Its like if you are married and you have an affair. You are an adulterer. Whether its right or wrong is not relevant to the definition.

    Surur
    Oh, pardon me. From your use of the term in labeling the US as such, I perceived you to be making value judgment.

    So, I will gladly restrict the remainder of the moral truth tangent to Nobility
  6. #466  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You do not live in a special time (as I have said before). Get used to it. How about learning from history instead of repeating it.

    Surur
    Oh, you mean, like "Peace For Our Time"?
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  7. #467  
    I just read an article that the cartoons in question were published in September. Did it really take 5 months for the protestors to organize?
  8. #468  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You do not live in a special time (as I have said before). Get used to it. How about learning from history instead of repeating it.
    Do you mean our history of being uprepared for unprovoked attack? I think perhaps we have finally learned that lesson. Or maybe you mean the lesson about withdrawing from the world and allowing it to go to hell? We learned that one after WWII.

    For the record, the atomic bomb attacks that ended WWII were carried out because of estimates of 1-2 million civilian casualties should the US have invaded the Japanese home islands. Would that have been a preferrable outcome in your estimation? For someone who claims to know much about history, you do indeed seem to be only half aware of most issues.
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  9.    #469  
    This article explains why it took so long. Muslim Nations gathered and came up with a plan. How a meeting of leaders in Mecca set off the cartoon wars around the world

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I just read an article that the cartoons in question were published in September. Did it really take 5 months for the protestors to organize?
  10.    #470  
    Muslims for whatever reason didn't get pissed when an Egyptian newspaper ran the same cartoon last October.

    Egyptian newspaper
  11. #471  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I just read an article that the cartoons in question were published in September. Did it really take 5 months for the protestors to organize?

    You JUST NOW realized it was published in Sep? I've heard it mentioned in every story on this subject. However, papers across Europe are obliging the demonstators by printing the cartoon when doing stories about protests about printing the cartoon.

  12.    #472  
    While I agree I don't think the cartoons should be published, shopharim was questioning why it took so long to protest. The link I provided above a couple of posts explains why. Muslim leaders had to gather their ranks to protest. In other words they had to be told what to do like cattle.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You JUST NOW realized it was published in Sep? I've heard it mentioned in every story on this subject. However, papers across Europe are obliging the demonstators by printing the cartoon when doing stories about protests about printing the cartoon.

  13. #473  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    In other words they had to be told what to do like cattle.
    Ah, I get it! The Mooo-jahideen.
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  14. #474  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You JUST NOW realized it was published in Sep? I've heard it mentioned in every story on this subject. However, papers across Europe are obliging the demonstators by printing the cartoon when doing stories about protests about printing the cartoon.

    What can I say?

    Despite my several posts in this thread, the issue is not a priority for me. I have not seen many news stories on it. The ones I have seen were from the local interest pespective (CAIR's reponse, etc). I've only read (skimmed) articles linked from this thread.
  15. #475  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Ah, I get it! The Mooo-jahideen.

    Careful. you're making fun of Reagan's buddies. And you don't want to get that jihad group going.

  16. #476  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Careful. you're making fun of Reagan's buddies. And you don't want to get that jihad group going.

    Eh, I'll make fun of anybody. I'm an equal opportunity offender. But it was a pun waiting to be grabbed.
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  17. #477  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    What can I say?

    Despite my several posts in this thread, the issue is not a priority for me. I have not seen many news stories on it. The ones I have seen were from the local interest pespective (CAIR's reponse, etc). I've only read (skimmed) articles linked from this thread.
    Ok, I guess I'm the weird one for tivo'ing the national evening news.



    How similar are Omans (sp?) riling up people over the blasphemous cartoon and Karl Rove whipping up the religious right with gay marriage?
  18. #478  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Ok, I guess I'm the weird one for tivo'ing the national evening news.



    How similar are Omans (sp?) riling up people over the blasphemous cartoon and Karl Rove whipping up the religious right with gay marriage?
    Religious extremes, no matter the belief are always...well, extreme.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  19. #479  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Ok, I guess I'm the weird one for tivo'ing the national evening news.



    How similar are Omans (sp?) riling up people over the blasphemous cartoon and Karl Rove whipping up the religious right with gay marriage?
    :lightbulb: Let's go torch the courthouses of Massachusetts!! Who's with me?
  20.    #480  
    Gay marriage is more of an American issue. The negative condensations goes across party lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    How similar are Omans (sp?) riling up people over the blasphemous cartoon and Karl Rove whipping up the religious right with gay marriage?

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