Page 23 of 46 FirstFirst ... 13181920212223242526272833 ... LastLast
Results 441 to 460 of 914
  1. #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Maybe I'm just better informed? I've heard ignorance is bliss, but never really believed it. I prefer knowing what I'm talking about.

    Surur
    Knowledge, comprehension, wisdom, a perspective of what was known or current events or political climate AT THE TIME decisions were made and actions were taken, are all different issues. And all the knowledge is for nothing if everything is selectively viewed thru biased eyes with bad judgment and assessment to be molded into ones own perspective to prove a point, no matter if it is reality or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Please! You KNOW you staid out of the WW II for two years, and WW I 3 years later, and on both occasions only when American interest was affected (Pearl Harbour in one, and the sinking of an American ship in another).

    Or maybe you dont know these things?

    Surur
    Wait.....you spend a tremendous amount of effort and research posting to prove your point that we jump into every war because we are war mongers.

    Then you turn around and say we are bad for not going to war immediately in WWI and WWII?

    I am confused It seems that damn if we do and damn if we don't.

    You obviously do not know US history as well as you claim or you would know a little more of why it took us so long to enter the WWs that is not just a matter of our bottom line. We have talked specifically about WWII situations and motivation in other threads.

    I am also one who does not think in absolutes. Which is why I understand that not all Muslims are evil. There are Muslims who do not agree with chopping off heads and targeting children wanting candy with bombs. I do not believe that everything America has done is good, ethical, and just (slavery, native Americans, segregation, noted current and historic political scandals and corruption just to name a few that come to mind). But I also think the USA have done a lot of good.

    From what I can see from your posts is that you do think in absolutes with ingrained bias and prejudice. For example:

    USA Evil For Killing Civilians: Is evil because when they go to war civilians are killed, in spite of taking the most precautions in history of war to prevent civilian causalities.

    TERRORISTS Forgiven For Killing Civilians: Are forgiven they purposely target civilians and want to kill innocent men, woman, and children.

    USA Evil For Having Self Interest: Are evil because they ONLY do anything and everything because of their self interest. In spite of rarely staked claim to countries that we won against in war. In spite of given them aid, even though they started the war to begin with. Never mind that France, Belgium, Poland, etc.. were freed from an abusive and cruel dictator, But that does not matter at in the least and should be disregarded because we benefited as well, which is the only fact the is important because that makes the US evil.

    TERRORISTS Forgiven For Having Self Interest: Actively seek out innocent people to kill fully claiming it in their self interest but are forgiven.

    USA Evil Because Only In It For Money & Power: The USA only acts to gain money and power. In spite of giving all the power it could have claimed after WWI & WWII. It is self imposed biased ignorance to think Afghanistan or Iraq are profitable ventures.

    TERRORISTS Forgiven For Wanting Money & Power: Terrorists are forgiven for killing innocent people on purpose in the hopes of gaining more power.

    USA Evil Because They Have Fewer Causalities: Isn't that a major goal of war, to limit causalities on ones side? Or at least until recently......

    TERRORIST Good Because They Cause Their Own Causalities: How can this even be an argument against the USA when the enemy terrorist blow themselves up on purpose?

    Surur.....you are one scary person, IMHO. It is obvious that USA has made mistakes....has there ever been a nation in the history of the world who has not? At least the USA has made more efforts than any other nation I know about to do some things right. In your eyes the USA is the scourge of the earth. If we take that at face value then wouldn't it be hypocritical for other nations to accept our financial or military assistance. Should we stop and pull back all forces into our own borders and stop giving money to others? I am just confused what you want. Do you want US to interact or not?

    Then on the other hand, you have offered at least a baker's dozen of excuses for terrorists to justify purposely killing children.
    • America is an occupying force that is trying to leave (oxymoron?) so the terrorist should be forgiven for blowing up weddings, hospitals, schools, etc...to make America leave, which America is trying to do anyways but has to stay longer because the terrorist are blowing up weddings, hospitals, schools, etc...
    • The Americans have too few causalities compared to their enemies so it is justified to use suicide bombers to increase that ratio while taking out innocent people along with them.
    • They are not terrorists but freedom fighters, but never mind that the number one group of causalities that are purposely targeted are the innocent civilians they are suppose be fighting for.
    • America acts only in itself interest which justifies blowing up bus loads of innocent people (who are not Americans), which is okay because it is in the self interest of the terrorist.
    • Too Poor to know killing innocent people is wrong
    • Wars 500 yrs ago justify actions today
    • They are an infant religion only 1,429 yrs young (which I would think would be an insulting statement to a Muslim, but I am only guessing on that)
    • They are not educated enough to know any different (again insulting)
    • They don't know it is wrong to kill families eating together in restaurants, so they should be forgiven
    • They need another 500 years to learn killing innocent people is wrong
    • It is Israel's fault by just existing which justifies that they actively kill innocent people, so the terrorist should be forgiven
    • Do not have enough good jobs


    Did I miss any of his excuses Surur has used to justify purposely targeting and killing innocent families including men, women, children, and babies by terrorists?

    So it appears that Surur is absolutely for supporting the cause and the methods and the results of terrorists because of the reasons listed above. He is absolutely against anything American touches, does, or interacts with....but would guess he would not want the USA to pull inside it's borders and ignore everyone else either.

    (I am more convinced now than ever that Barye and Nudist are now roommates and taking turns posting under the name Surur)
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/10/2006 at 06:33 AM.
  2. #442  
    Well, you tend to wait until if affects your bottom line.

    Surur
  3. #443  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    surur the difference is our military does not purposely kill civilians. on the other hand muslim murderers blow themselves up to kill civilians. your cite mentioned civilians killed by usa b/c civilians were harboring terrorists. you googler.
    The point is that your politicians could have avoided killing civilians "accidentally" by not starting an unnecessary war in the first place, in which it would be inevitable that there would be civilian casualties.

    Also, in Iraq they are called resistance fighters.

    Surur
  4. #444  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The point is that your politicians could have avoided killing civilians "accidentally" by not starting an unnecessary war in the first place, in which it would be inevitable that there would be civilian casualties.
    I doubt there would have been a time when you would say this is a necessary war. Even if we'd found WMD you'd say that Iraq has a right to defend itself.

    Also, in Iraq they are called resistance fighters.
    Say what you will, but anyone who plants a bomb outside a hospital is a terrorist. And attempting to legitimize this kind of activity by titling it "resistance fighting" is really kind of sickening.
  5. #445  
    I was adding to post 141 as you were responding.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 02/10/2006 at 01:50 AM.
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    How does it make them better? And if they are no better, are they fit to wield the power they wield in their own self-interest?

    Whats worse is that they are no better than anyone else, and act that way, but due to their power their actions have global consequences (e.g. ignoring the Kyoto treaty). Also they pretend to be better than anyone else, which is hypocritical, which I find irksome.

    Surur
    If a boss of mine was actively looking for a promotion (an act of self interest). And in the course of pursuing this goal, was able to save hundreds of jobs, including mine, that would have been lost due to a corp take over that failed because of his actions (at great risk to himself) of pursuing his goal. You bet I would hold some appreciation for him for helping to save me job.....even though his ultimate goal was one of self interest and in spite the fact that he was arrogant of his strengths and never wore enough deodorant.
  7.    #447  
    surur the self-titled 'resistance fighters' doesn't fly with me. I thin the rest of the world is catching on. They are called the Muslim murderers from the Religion of Murder.
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    I must go with surur on most stuff here

    However, I'll take a back seat & look because I hate to speak polotics.

    Back to DQ VIII!
    I am actually surprised at this. He is purposing several ideals that you previously posted with an opposing view.

    Surur has justified and reasoned the acts and methods of Terrorist killing innocent people with more than a dozens reasons...er...excuses....of why the terrorist should be forgiven, ignored, or sympathized with, all of which do not justify actively targeting innocent people with the sole intend to purposely kill innocent civilians.

    If you support the view that EVERYTHING the USA does is bad and evil, which is what Surur is promoting, then you are right, you do not have to know and be able to speak about politics with an unbiased view of the situation of when it happened.
  9. #449  
    Let me summarize my own position:

    The United States is a hypocrite. The engage in similar actions to the people the condemn. In Iraq they are the aggressors. All action against them and their interests are justified. Its no more than America is doing to the resistance and population, and no worse than America has done in the last 50 years to others.

    And if you dont think distributing sweets to children is part of the military campaign, you are very naive.

    Surur
  10. #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    If a boss of mine was actively looking for a promotion (an act of self interest). And in the course of pursuing this goal, was able to save hundreds of jobs, including mine, that would have been lost due to a corp take over that failed because of his actions (at great risk to himself) of pursuing his goal. You bet I would hold some appreciation for him for helping to save me job.....even though his ultimate goal was one of self interest and in spite the fact that he was arrogant of his strengths and never wore enough deodorant.
    Thats a pretty pooor analogy.

    Lets break it up:

    If a boss of mine was actively looking for a promotion (an act of self interest).

    George Bush?

    And in the course of pursuing this goal

    Presidency, money for his cronies?

    was able to save hundreds of jobs, including mine,

    Increase the wealth of the USA

    that would have been lost due to a corp take over that failed because of his actions (at great risk to himself) of pursuing his goal.

    The US being taken over the Iraq??? This is the point where your analogy has a fatal error.

    You bet I would hold some appreciation for him for helping to save me job.....even though his ultimate goal was one of self interest

    You are glad that you are wealthier though his actions , even if Haliburton is much wealthier, and Bush won a second term.

    in spite the fact that he was arrogant of his strengths and never wore enough deodorant

    This is despite a dislike for a president roundly portrayed as an ***** by the rest of the world.

    Am I mapping your analogy fairly to your real message?

    Now how about one a bit closer to the truth.

    If a boss of mine, an executive of Walmart, was actively looking for a promotion (an act of self interest).

    George Bush

    And in the course of pursuing this goal

    Presidency, money for his cronies?

    was able to create a 100 minimum wage jobs, by taking over a rival small town store, firing 50 well paid workers.

    Increase the wealth of USA at the expense of others.

    This store was obviously causing a small loss of profit for Walmart, and we know they deserve all the profit they are due

    The US is hungry to control resources all over the world, whether they have a right to or not.

    You bet I would hold some appreciation for him for helping to save me job.....even though his ultimate goal was one of self interest

    You are glad that you country is acting in a greedy and bullying fashion, as you are on its team, and benefit from it, no matter the consequences to anyone else

    in spite the fact that he was arrogant of his strengths and never wore enough deodorant

    What does it matter as long as you can drive your SUV and fill up with $2.00 gasoline.

    This is the way the rest of the world sees your actions.

    Surur

    popularity america
  11. #451  
    That last 80 or so posts have been sprinkled with the terms "Hypocrisy" and "Nobility"

    Yet earlier it was declared that there is no universal truth. Without such, on what basis are concepts like hypocrisy and nobility judged?
  12. #452  
    I said no universal morality. Truth is still truth. 1+1 will always be 2.

    The fact is that US would like others to believe that they stick to the Christian moral code, and would always, even to their detriment, and are therefore acting noblely. The fact is that they act in their own interest, and the only moral code they subscribe to is the law of the jungle, which means the bigger ape gets to do what it wants. That is the hypocrisy.

    Surur
  13. #453  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I said no universal morality. Truth is still truth. 1+1 will always be 2.

    The fact is that US would like others to believe that they stick to the Christian moral code, and would always, even to their detriment, and are therefore acting noblely. The fact is that they act in their own interest, and the only moral code they subscribe to is the law of the jungle, which means the bigger ape gets to do what it wants. That is the hypocrisy.

    Surur
    Are not "hypocirisy" and "nobility" moral designations?
  14.    #454  
    A Muslim freedom fighter was brave enough to murder an unarmed Iraqi Muslim woman today in their fight to kill as many people as possible.

    Gunmen Kill Woman Onlooker After Bombing

    The bravery in the name of Islam is tremendous.
  15. #455  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    A Muslim freedom fighter was brave enough to murder an unarmed Iraqi Muslim woman today in their fight to kill as many people as possible.

    Gunmen Kill Woman Onlooker After Bombing

    The bravery in the name of Islam is tremendous.
    No doubt it was Americas fault.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  16.    #456  
    Maybe the Muslim murderers thought she was an American?

    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    No doubt it was Americas fault.
  17. #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Are not "hypocirisy" and "nobility" moral designations?
    BINGO! We have a winner.

    Let's see him "circular-logic" his way out of this one.
    I'm back!
  18. #458  
    About an hour later, several masked gunmen shouting "Allahu Akbar," Arabic for "God is great," began firing randomly from a speeding car at people standing outside the mosque. At least one man, who was apparently standing at the scene waiting for the car, also began firing at onlookers before being whisked away in the vehicle, police said.
    A peaceful people they are.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  19.    #459  
    The 2005 Islam Killing Campaign has concluded, here is a list of the accomplishments..

    Killing List
  20. #460  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    No doubt it was Americas fault.
    Well Surur's retort to this will most assuredly be that she wouldn't have died if we hadn't been there, so yes, he will claim this is America's fault.

    Remember, every casualty in every war, whether military or civilian, is a direct result of American involvement. And since we didn't act quickly enough in WWI and WWII, even the casualties before we entered the war were our fault.

    Then, even though others asked for our help and we were attacked, we stuck our noses in where they didn't belong, because, you know, we should've just shrugged off the Japanese attack. We were wrong for responding.

    Of course, after we entered those wars, our soldiers and weapons were too good and we killed too many people without losing enough of our soldiers, so we were wrong for that as well.

    And we were wrong for using atomic weapons on Japan, even though they pledged to fight until the end, that surrender wasn't an option, that they would fight until the last breath had been taken by every Japanese man, woman, and child, but he thinks it's OK that Iran develop nuclear weapons because, hey, those damn Israelis just won't leave them alone, and the Iranians have to defend themselves.

    Oh, and 1500 years isn't enough time to work out the morality part of a religion, they're still feeling their way around.
    I'm back!

Posting Permissions