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  1. #381  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Maybe America has been involved in every major war in recent history. For an isolated continent you sure are meddlesome. The fact is that millions of people have been killed by Americans. Maybe not 20 million, but certainly many millions. I doubt more than 2 million Americans have ever been killed in war, yet you have been incredibly war like.

    I provided many links. Why dont you provide your estimate, and your own numbers?

    All these numbers are also from recent history. People talk about terrorist atrocities in Iraq, yet ignore the fact that war is ugly, and that US soldiers probably killed many many more Vietnamese brutally and unnecessarily. You need to get some perspective.

    Do you know how many people the French killed after the Vichy government was disposed? 10 000.

    War is ugly. Get used to it. Your hands are dirty enough.

    Surur
    Perspective is not something I lack - I was however pointing out to you it is something you lack. I have no illusions about war and it's ugliness. It appears you, however, have the desire to pin all of this on the US.

    Remind me again who began World Wars I and II? I know it's terribly meddlesome for my Goverment to have gotten involved in those wars......

    And please, don't even try to chastize the US for utlimately being able to end wars with minimal casualities (relatively speaking)to it's forces - that's what all militaries would choose to do given the ability.
  2. #382  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    And please, don't even try to chastize the US for utlimately being able to end wars with minimal casualities (relatively speaking)to it's forces - that's what all militaries would choose to do given the ability.
    E.g. using nuclear weapons when your enemy is about to surrender? Or "shocking and awe-ing" bomb shelters?

    The fact is that USA is intimately involved in the conflict in the Middle East, in various ways.

    The American public does not appear to realize how many of the opposition die when the USA fight them. They apparently dont care that 100 000's of Iranians would die for USA to increase its security by a tiny percentage. The government encourages this by not mentioning casualties from the opposition. No number of enemies are too many to kill to achieve America's political objectives, such as pursuing fake WMD. The new bogeyman is the War on Terror, which must be eradicated at all (enemy) costs, by invading a country unconnected. Wow.

    Surur
  3. #383  
    I must go with surur on most stuff here

    However, I'll take a back seat & look because I hate to speak polotics.

    Back to DQ VIII!
  4. #384  
    Surur,

    In case you haven't been to America, we don't just rely on the gov't for our news. We have many news agencies and most of them are not friendly to the current administration. So you are wrong in assuming we only have what we're force fed by our gov't. Maybe you don't know this because you believe what you are fed by the anti-Americanism of your local news outlets. Or maybe you just want to assume the worst about America. I don't really know you so I can't say. Maybe you should give me the same courtesy.
  5. #385  
    Admit it Surur, you hate America.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  6. #386  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    E.g. using nuclear weapons when your enemy is about to surrender? Or "shocking and awe-ing" bomb shelters?

    The fact is that USA is intimately involved in the conflict in the Middle East, in various ways.

    The American public does not appear to realize how many of the opposition die when the USA fight them. They apparently dont care that 100 000's of Iranians would die for USA to increase its security by a tiny percentage. The government encourages this by not mentioning casualties from the opposition. No number of enemies are too many to kill to achieve America's political objectives, such as pursuing fake WMD. The new bogeyman is the War on Terror, which must be eradicated at all (enemy) costs, by invading a country unconnected. Wow.

    Surur
    You do have an interesting "perspective".

    I don't dispute the US is intimately involved in the Middle East. I don't dispute one of the significant reasons why is oil. I don't dispute US military forces are quite efficient at doing their job and that the casualty rate of the enemy is shockingly higher than that of US forces.

    What I do dispute is the notion that the US military is not concerned with the number of people killed. That is clearly not the case - if you pay any attention, the US military goes overboard in their attempts to minimize civilian casualities, often at a risk of increased US military casualities.

    Your bush paints far too broad of stroke.....
    Last edited by treo2die4; 02/09/2006 at 05:41 PM.
  7. #387  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    Your bush paints bar too broad of stroke.....
    Man I hate bar painting bushes.
  8. #388  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Man I hate bar painting bushes.
    oops
  9. cardio's Avatar
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    #389  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Your kill ratio definitely seems higher.

    The point is that your country is far from innocent, and you dont seem to know it. You judge the acts of your enemies from on high, when you are really in the swill with them. That is hypocrisy.

    Surur
    Our kill ratio is higher because we have had and continue to have superior technology, our warriors (all volunteer by the way) are better trained and do not back down and run when the going gets tough. Unfortunately our EU friends can not say the same. If, as so often in the recent past, the europeans did not call on us to cover their a$$ maybe we would not be involved in so many conflicts. I am proud to be able to say that when our friends ask for help we are there in word and deed not sitting on the sidelines voting for 10 more years of sanctions that are being violated right under our nose.

    Look at history, how many conflicts has the US initiated without at least UN resolutions that have been violated?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  10. #390  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Admit it Surur, you hate America.
    Why do you hate America?
    From Encyclopedia Dramatica
    Also known as "why do you hate freedom?," this is the only correct response to any statement which implies the the United States might be responsible for something.
    Anyway, the best way to avoid killing people is not to go to war in the fist place, especially when your physical security is not threatened. Going to war for economic reasons, when you already have more than anyone else, is the most abhorrent reason of all.

    Instead of trying to secure the oil, why did you not use that $20 000 000 000 and invest it in alternative fuels? The is no divine reason why America deserved to maintain their dominant position, yet they continue to wage war on the rest of the world to do this. That is wrong.

    Surur
  11. cardio's Avatar
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    #391  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    E.g. using nuclear weapons when your enemy is about to surrender? Or "shocking and awe-ing" bomb shelters?

    The fact is that USA is intimately involved in the conflict in the Middle East, in various ways.

    The American public does not appear to realize how many of the opposition die when the USA fight them. They apparently dont care that 100 000's of Iranians would die for USA to increase its security by a tiny percentage. The government encourages this by not mentioning casualties from the opposition. No number of enemies are too many to kill to achieve America's political objectives, such as pursuing fake WMD. The new bogeyman is the War on Terror, which must be eradicated at all (enemy) costs, by invading a country unconnected. Wow.

    Surur
    The American military fighting machine goes above and beyond what any other country does to limit civilian casualties (with the exception of running away). However when the cowards use historic sites, hospitals, and mosques to hide their weapons cache, to set up anti-aircraft weaponary, to launch missles from etc, well guess what, they are the ones responsible for the civilian casualties.

    I can attest to the level of precaution used to prevent and/or limit civilian casualty and property damage from first hand knowledge and experience.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  12. cardio's Avatar
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    #392  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Anyway, the best way to avoid killing people is not to go to war in the fist place, especially when your physical security is not threatened. Going to war for economic reasons, when you already have more than anyone else, is the most abhorrent reason of all.

    Instead of trying to secure the oil, why did you not use that $20 000 000 000 and invest it in alternative fuels? The is no divine reason why America deserved to maintain their dominant position, yet they continue to wage war on the rest of the world to do this. That is wrong.

    Surur
    So in your opinon only Israel should deal with Iran, since they are the only ones Iran is directly threatening right now?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  13. #393  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Anyway, the best way to avoid killing people is not to go to war in the fist place, especially when your physical security is not threatened. Going to war for economic reasons, when you already have more than anyone else, is the most abhorrent reason of all.

    Instead of trying to secure the oil, why did you not use that $20 000 000 000 and invest it in alternative fuels? The is no divine reason why America deserved to maintain their dominant position, yet they continue to wage war on the rest of the world to do this. That is wrong.

    Surur
    I take that as a yes.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  14. #394  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Our kill ratio is higher because we have had and continue to have superior technology, our warriors (all volunteer by the way) are better trained and do not back down and run when the going gets tough. Unfortunately our EU friends can not say the same. If, as so often in the recent past, the europeans did not call on us to cover their a$$ maybe we would not be involved in so many conflicts. I am proud to be able to say that when our friends ask for help we are there in word and deed not sitting on the sidelines voting for 10 more years of sanctions that are being violated right under our nose.
    Please! You KNOW you staid out of the WW II for two years, and WW I 3 years later, and on both occasions only when American interest was affected (Pearl Harbour in one, and the sinking of an American ship in another).

    Or maybe you dont know these things?

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 02/09/2006 at 06:17 PM.
  15.    #395  
    how many heads has america cut off this year? Islam is the religion of murder till the murder in the name of Islam stops. The only religion I know that condones, actually makes the request to kill people. Islam is a greater threat to the world than aids, global warming, North Korea, Hilary Clinton combined.
  16. #396  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    So in your opinon only Israel should deal with Iran, since they are the only ones Iran is directly threatening right now?
    Maybe some of those millions in Aid to Israel should be used to repatriate the Israelis? You help set up an unstable situation, and then complain when you are accused of intimidating everyone to maintain it?

    Surur
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    #397  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Please! You KNOW you staid out of the WW II for two years, and WW I 3 years later, and on both occasions only when American interest was affected (Pearl Harbour in one, and the sinking of an American ship in another).

    Or maybe you dont know these things?

    Surur
    How does that apply to anything in my post, except it supports what I said of us not getting involved until asked (or attacked first). You made a claim that the US goes around bullying people when we have no interest, and commented on how effective our military is. You are really trying to spin, are you French?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  18. cardio's Avatar
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    #398  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Maybe some of those millions in Aid to Israel should be used to repatriate the Israelis? You help set up an unstable situation, and then complain when you are accused of intimidating everyone to maintain it?

    Surur
    I take that as an I have no answer to your question reply.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  19. #399  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Funny though that Muslim newpapers have no problem publishing cartoons of Jews as vermin and devils or that the muslim protestors in Denmark had no problem burning a Danish Flag that has a cross on it...

    Muslims are generally very keen on on pointing out their own uniqueness and ability to express thier religion in other countries, but how tolerant are muslim countires of other religions in their own countries? Not very much at all...

    I personally think that Muslims are very tolerant when it comes to religion. The problem lies in that the people doing damage to their society are of other religions, so they have a face to put on their misfortunes and fight back.

    Spain is a mostly catholic country, and it was once part of the persian empire but the native were not converted to islam.

    If times were good in Iran or Iraq, I doubt they would care about other peoples religion.

    Fine the best 100 people on this world, put them on an island that can only sustain 10... I doubt peace and harmony would prevail.
    .
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    .Treo Pro on Sprint Check out www.treotricks.com, Audio jack fix.
  20. #400  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    how many heads has america cut off this year?
    2006 is still young. Does decapitation via explosive count?

    The perils of the strategy were illustrated Tuesday when as many as 12 members of an Iraqi family, including women and children, were killed and others seriously injured in a US airstrike north of Baghdad. US officials said the attack from an F-14 fighter jet was aimed at suspected insurgents believed to be taking shelter in a house in Baiji, about 150 miles north of Baghdad, after a pilotless drone spotted three men planting what looked like a bomb along a nearby roadway.
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...qi_insurgents/

    I guess killing from 2 miles up doesnt really count. I mean, the pilot will hardly see any blood at all... Its just like a video game...

    Surur

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