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  1. #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Now that makes a lot of sense
    You really don't understand that?
  2. #342  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I politely disagree: the US as a - in comparison to European democracies - highly religious county does not score well in most social aspects (homicide rate, teenage pregnancy, divorce rate, life expectancy, etc.). See this post and link therein for a more scientific evaluation:
    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...&postcount=505

    So it seems that circumstantial evidence is against you in this case.
    The US, in comparison to most European democracies, is much less homogeneous. My point is that you can't just compare country to country without taking every detail into account.
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    #343  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You really don't understand that?
    I understand what he wants to say, it just does not add up the way he wants it to. If we do not kill the 10, there will be 50 since the 10 get away with it.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  4. #344  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I understand what he wants to say, it just does not add up the way he wants it to. If we do not kill the 10, there will be 50 since the 10 get away with it.
    I think he's referrig to escalating violence as opposed to applying the rule of law and/or dialog.
  5. #345  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I think he's referring to escalating violence as opposed to applying the rule of law and/or dialog.
    Clearly.

    The rest of us are wondering exactly why and how we should do that with people who would strap bombs on their children and mentally handicapped and send them off to be martyrs.
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  6.    #346  
    I think what dat and others here are trying to point out is maybe, just maybe we can reason with them. We can make the terrorists like us and we'll like them.

    "I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change." Rocky, Rocky IV


    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Clearly.

    The rest of us are wondering exactly why and how we should do that with people who would strap bombs on their children and mentally handicapped and send them off to be martyrs.
  7. #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Sense we are doing the math...

    If this were true, it would be good news. It would mean that their defeat would accelerate exponentially.

    By round 7, the effort would be complete, i.e. 10+20+40+80+160+320+370=1000
    Yes, ultimately the problem will go away, because the whole population will be destroyed. A nice "final solution".

    If some-one is fighting in their own country against an invader I call them resistance fighters, not terrorists. Its very convenient to ignore causal factors for terrorism against the west. That makes a military solution much easier to accept, vs actually removing the provocation.

    It is all justified because hundreds of years ago we did do Crusades against them. It has taken them 500 years to respond, but at least they are doing it now. We deserve it.
    How about the provocation for the last 50-100 years? When your own country is built on the extermination of millions of people its so convenient to have a short memory.

    Surur
  8.    #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Yes, ultimately the problem will go away, because the whole population will be destroyed. A nice "final solution".
    Not true b/c we are killing A LOT more of them than they are killing of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    If some-one is fighting in their own country against an invader I call them resistance fighters, not terrorists.
    Sounds like you are part of the problem. Killing women and children make you a murderer not a resistance fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    When your own country is built on the extermination of millions of people its so convenient to have a short memory.
    I am almost certain even if you add up every enemy killed in all wars of the USA it wouldn't add up to millions. I have no comment to that, it doesn't even make sense.
  9. #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I think what dat and others here are trying to point out is maybe, just maybe we can reason with them. We can make the terrorists like us and we'll like them.

    "I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change." Rocky, Rocky IV
    Please note I gave 2 options, one of which is to apply the rule of law.
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    #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Yes, ultimately the problem will go away, because the whole population will be destroyed. A nice "final solution".

    If some-one is fighting in their own country against an invader I call them resistance fighters, not terrorists. Its very convenient to ignore causal factors for terrorism against the west. That makes a military solution much easier to accept, vs actually removing the provocation.



    How about the provocation for the last 50-100 years? When your own country is built on the extermination of millions of people its so convenient to have a short memory.

    Surur
    So now you claim all the insurgents/terrorist in AQ and Iraq are citizens of the country they are in. That goes against what most of the anti-Bush league says, they insist that there were no terrorist in Iraq pre-invasion and now you claim they are fighting for their land in Iraq.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  11.    #351  
    And there are two opinions, one that feels something illegal is being done and the other is that nothing illegal is being done.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Please note I gave 2 options, one of which is to apply the rule of law.
  12. #352  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Not true b/c we are killing A LOT more of them than they are killing of us.
    I was referring to genocide, not MAD.

    Sounds like you are part of the problem. Killing women and children make you a murderer not a resistance fighter.
    Like the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Or the burning of Dresden? Dont play innocent.

    I am almost certain even if you add up every enemy killed in all wars of the USA it wouldn't add up to millions. I have no comment to that, it doesn't even make sense.
    I was referring to the Native Americans. You obviously bear no guilt towards them. If funny that you talk about Christianity and have no concept regarding the sins of your father.

    America is an isolated country with no immediate defense need to meddle incessantly in the Middle East, except for a need to maintain their cheap energy and economic power. Stop pretending invading Iraq was all about defending yourself. The population (which appear to be effectively supporting a resistance movement) have every right to fight and kill "Foreign Enemy Combatants".

    Surur
  13. #353  
    I take exception to the term "Final Solution". The act of killing agressors, even if it means at some point exterminating them if they persist, is far different than exterminating a whole population of innocent people. The use of such hyperbole only serves to legitimize the acts of those agressors.
  14. #354  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I am almost certain even if you add up every enemy killed in all wars of the USA it wouldn't add up to millions. I have no comment to that, it doesn't even make sense.

    US Imperialism Killed Over 10% of Vietnamese Population During War

    Text of Agence France Presse (AFP) release from Hanoi April 1995, on the 20th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War.
    With A Rough Translation and Commentary

    The AFP release, which I'm not going to translate word for word, says that the Hanoi government revealed on April 3 that the true civilian casualties of the VN war were 2,000,000 in the north, 2,000,000 in the south. Military casualties were 1.1 million killed and 600,000 wounded in 21 years of war (1963-74). These figures were deliberately falsified during the war by the North VN nationalists to avoid demoralizing the population, according to the French article. On the US side, the figures given are 58,200 US soldiers killed, 223,748 South Vietnamese soldiers, and 5,200 South Koreans, Australians, New Zealanders, and Thais forced to fight for US imperialism. The total therefore comes to around 5.4 million deaths in Vietnam alone (including the US and its lacayos), but these figures don't factor in Laos and Cambodia.

    Given a Vietnamese population of around 38 million during the war years, Vietnamese casualties represent a good 12-13% of the country. So anyone who thinks that US bosses aren't worse than Hitler is living on an oasis in Disneyland.
    http://www.chss.montclair.edu/englis.../casualty.html

    During the conflict, approximately 3 to 4 million Vietnamese on both sides were killed, in addition to another 1.5 to 2 million Lao and Cambodians who were drawn into the war.
    http://www.vietnamwar.com/

    Japanese casualties WWII 2,600,000
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    The Korean War was one of the most destructive of the 20th century. Perhaps as many as 4 million Koreans died throughout the peninsula, two-thirds of them civilians. (This compares, for example, with the 2.3 million Japanese who died in World War II.) China lost up to 1 million soldiers, and the United States suffered 36,934 dead and 103,284 wounded. Other UN nations suffered 3322 dead and 11,949 wounded. Economic and social damage to the Korea Peninsula was incalculable, especially in the North, where three years of bombing left hardly a modern building standing.
    http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...orean_War.html

    German casualties WWII 5,500,000 soldiers 1,840,000 civilians Total 7340000
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    Germany WW I 1,600,000 soldiers killed
    http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/casualties.htm

    Running total : approx 19 600 000

    Guess how many Americans died in WW II? 418,500

    WOW, the sacrifice!!

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 02/09/2006 at 04:11 PM.
  15. #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I was referring to the Native Americans. You obviously bear no guilt towards them. If funny that you talk about Christianity and have no concept regarding the sins of your father.
    Why can't we at least try to keep things within the past Century? Preferably within the current generation. You blame the sins of my dead fathers but I blame LIVING people! If you want to bring up past sins then we can do that too. What about the Seljuk Turks whose aggression started the First Crusades? What about the Moors attacking the Spanish states? What about the Berbers killing and enslaving hundreds of thousands of Christians in the 18th and 19th Centuries? Should I go on or do you want to keep the conversation a little bit more contemporary?
  16. #356  
    What......a French article propagandizing an American war.......UNBELIEVALBLE
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    #357  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo2die4
    What......a French article propagandizing an American war.......UNBELIEVALBLE
    And the information they provide is after they got their a$$ kicked, turned tail and ran home to mommy
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  18.    #358  
    surur are you a resistance fighter?
  19. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    surur are you a resistance fighter?
    My country is not occupied? How could I be a Resistance fighter. Here's a better question - Are you an invader?

    Surur
  20. #360  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    And there are two opinions, one that feels something illegal is being done and the other is that nothing illegal is being done.
    Certainly you have seen the legitimization of certain "terrorist" groups in recent history?

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