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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Redbelt, A couple questions.....

    1) It does appear that with the recent situations in France and with this cartoon that there is a will to protest against wrongs they feel are against them.

    If violence is not condoned, and yet there are fanaticals killing innocent families in their name......Why then have I not seen protests when a road side bomb goes off, or bus is bombed, or a person's head is sawed off on TV.....all in their name? If a cartoon is an offense to their religion and violence is an offense to their religion and there are those killing (a very extreme form of violence) in their name, why not the same outrage and protests?

    This is what I am have trouble understanding.

    2) I have absolutely no problem with someone being offended or even protesting when it occurs. That is a right we all should have. But you speak about the rights to riot in response. Do the rights of the innocent business owners come into play when their whole life is burnt to the ground because a newspaper in another country published a cartoon?
    Alot of responses for one day! lets see:

    1) Who says there are no outrage against terrorists? I for one am extreemly against it. It is immoral, criminal, useless and further more, gives reason to have my religions name tarnished. I do not run to the streets however to burn something because I rather debate, educate & discuss that matter. Its not like having a protest will stop some nameless person from blowing himself up. What did I do about the cartoons? I stopped supporting Danish products. Many will think thats stupid, but if they say its freedom of speech, I have, as a consumer, freedom of choice and I am fully excersizing it.

    2) There are no excuses to riot, period. I am fully on your side here. some people tend to lose control. Others have the famous Dubya notion: if your not with us, your against us. I guess we can all see how wrong that statment is. I saw some protestors in London I think with signs threatining terrorist attacks. Thats bad, real bad.
    Dn't think for a moment that sane people approve of these actions. I hadan ex employee of mine go into a coma after the hotel bombings in Jordan. I sill pray for her recovery. They blew themselves up in a wedding party for crying out load, how is this serving any purpose is beyond me. idiots.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its a natural evolutionary process, seen in talk radio shows, fundamentalist churches etc. When institutions are under threat they become insular and go on the attack.

    The question is, whats the threat to Islam that would make them more defensive, touchy and extremist. The answer is secularism, which attacks all religion.

    Thats why fundamentalist Moslem's are as anti-gay as right wing church goers.

    Surur
    Okay, I understand your reasoning here. Although, do not include all us secularists! Or at least use Secular instead of secular. I would consider myself secular, but have no desire to attack anyones religion. I don't care if someone wishes to worship a jar of Kim Chee, so be it. Nor does seeing the word God on my money, or in a court bug me.

    Likewise, if I were to move to Saudi Arabia, I would not try and stop any Moslem from his beliefs. If the country stands still to pray to Mecca, I'll do stop what I'm doing out of respect as well.

    Leave me alone, don't cause harm, and you can do what you want.
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  3.    #223  
    Worth quoting again.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Is it appropriate to kill a child if you knew he would grow up to be Hitler?

    Surur
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs

    But when I see Islamic violence in England, France, Spain, Russia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, India, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines and, yes, New York City, I start getting a bit concerned about my own safety, the safety of my family and the safety of the world. And I ask myself, as most people probably are, if there's something inherent in this religion that promotes this violence. And when I talk to Muslims all I hear, for the most part, are a bunch of Yeah buts: Yeah, but look at what the Jews are doing; Yeah, but look at what the Christians did three-four hundred years ago; Yeah, but look at the economic disparity; Yeah, but they're being oppressed by (fill in the blank). When what I really want to hear is "Yes, its wrong and we condemn it in no uncertain terms." Period. End of story.
    Yes, its wrong and I condemn it in no uncertain terms.
    Not only I, but millions more. We just don't burn much to say it.

    And No, there is nothing in my religion that tells me to do this. At all. Whatsoever.
    But thanks to Iraqi's sawing heads off and stuff, people think that. great, thanks guys thats exactly what I need.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Yes, its wrong and I condemn it in no uncertain terms.
    Not only I, but millions more. We just don't burn much to say it.

    And No, there is nothing in my religion that tells me to do this. At all. Whatsoever.
    But thanks to Iraqi's sawing heads off and stuff, people think that. great, thanks guys thats exactly what I need.
    Good for you!
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  6. #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I don't care if someone wishes to worship a jar of Kim Chee, so be it.
    "Lakum deenukum waliya deen".
    That is from the Quran. Means :"you have your religion, and I have mine"
    Wonder how the islamist radicals missed it? I didn't.
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    did the occupants of the WTC attack the muslims?
    Ahem, please note:

    WTC occupants did not attack muslims
    Also
    Muslims did not attack WTC

    Terrorists did.

    yes, Alqaeda came up with slogans and took the blame, so? a rose by any name is still a terrorist.
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Yes, its wrong and I condemn it in no uncertain terms.
    Not only I, but millions more. We just don't burn much to say it.

    And No, there is nothing in my religion that tells me to do this. At all. Whatsoever.
    But thanks to Iraqi's sawing heads off and stuff, people think that. great, thanks guys thats exactly what I need.
    Thanks redbelt!!! May this sentiment become the voice of Islam in the very near future!
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    But still Surur, you're avoiding my question, by throwing out distractions. So I will keep repeating it. Is what we're seeing now what Mohammad teaches? Would he be proud to see this? Is he smiling as he looks down upon the world and sees what people are doing in His name?
    Of course not. However, it was predicted before hand. We are not surprised.

    BTW, I'm getting lost here, is this thread about what Islam is or why are terrorists are doing what they do or the cartoons or the politics of governments and the Iraqi war?
    getting a bit lost here.
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Of course not. However, it was predicted before hand. We are not surprised.

    BTW, I'm getting lost here, is this thread about what Islam is or why are terrorists are doing what they do or the cartoons or the politics of governments and the Iraqi war?
    getting a bit lost here.
    It tends to happen these threads...

    They splinter into different directions. It started with the violence going on over the cartoons, and lack of public desent from other Muslims, and just sort of went here and there.

    Stick around Off-Topic long enough, you'll start to notice all threads eventually do this.
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  11. #231  
    fair enough, I'll try to keep track!
  12. #232  
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  13.    #233  
    I began the thread b/c Muslims that are shown on television are either killing or complaining about something about the West. I want Muslims like yourself to rise up and take back Islam. If it were my religion I would be going insane to stop these scumbags giving my religion a bad name. But, this is not the case. As far as I can tell, nobody of importance from Islam speaks out against the bad guys. So, I am coming to the conclusion as many people around the world that this is par for the course, this is typical of the majority of Muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Of course not. However, it was predicted before hand. We are not surprised.

    BTW, I'm getting lost here, is this thread about what Islam is or why are terrorists are doing what they do or the cartoons or the politics of governments and the Iraqi war?
    getting a bit lost here.
  14. #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    And, for the record, killing abortion clinic workers is wrong. I condemn it, as does every Christian with whom I've personally discussed the issue, in no uncertain terms. Period. End of story.
    INDEED!

    just another buh-leever going on record.
  15.    #235  
    From a humor aspect it was not real funny. I didn't know you can't put the likeness of M in a drawing, but the media probably knew and did it anyway. This was an unlikely way to show the seriousness of this out of hand religion, but probably a good one to bring the World together to fight together against the bad of the religion. It is obvious 'good' Muslims aren't going to do it for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
  16. #236  
    The link points to a quote to come to the DEFENSE of fellow christians. Perhaps it is a "spin" but again, it is the not an unprovoked call to anihilation.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    From a humor aspect it was not real funny. I didn't know you can't put the likeness of M in a drawing, but the media probably knew and did it anyway. This was an unlikely way to show the seriousness of this out of hand religion, but probably a good one to bring the World together to fight together against the bad of the religion. It is obvious 'good' Muslims aren't going to do it for us.
    I'm no expert, but I've also read that only some factions of Islam believe this - it is not even universally believed by Muslims that images of Mohammed are not to be shown (AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK). $Does$ $anyone$ $out$ $there$ $know$ $for$ $sure$ $whether$ $this$ $is$ $true$?
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  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    The link points to a quote to come to the DEFENSE of fellow christians. Perhaps it is a "spin" but again, it is the not an unprovoked call to anihilation.
    Uh... yeah. And it happened a really, really long time ago...
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  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I kind of doubt that. 1 in 100 Americans are Muslim, you know. Thats the same as the number of Jews. They not all outside your borders. Its worrying the way you think though. It makes me suspect that if a Muslim did move in next to you you may decide to do a "first strike" and "take him out", in preemptive self-defense, you know.

    Surur
    When the Jews embark upon a worldwide terror campaign I'll worry about them.

    I wouldn't "take out" a muslim neighbor, but I sure as hell would keep an eye on him.

    Tell me, when am I going to see the Imam's speaking out against terror?
  20.    #240  
    You won't and the Muslims that do speak out will say the terrorist don't represent their religion. The same ole song and dance.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    When the Jews embark upon a worldwide terror campaign I'll worry about them.

    I wouldn't "take out" a muslim neighbor, but I sure as hell would keep an eye on him.

    Tell me, when am I going to see the Imam's speaking out against terror?

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