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  1.    #1  
    The house just approved a new bill to crack down on Illegal Immigrants.

    QUESTIONS
    The questions posed are:
    • Are Illegal immigrants a problem for the US, with education, health care, prison populations, etc.....?
    • Does this problem pose a National Security threat?
    • Should we provide Amnesty or take steps to curb illegal immigration?
    • Are the solutions proposed and that were just passed good?


    CHALLENGES
    I always felt the turn of Undocumented Immigrant was a term to soften the reality of their illegal actions from crossing the border and living here outside of the system and against every immigration law on the books. If I stole a stereo system would I be thief or simply a Undocumented Stereo Owner with the legal rights to own the stereo if I got it home without getting caught? Would my actions be accountable to the law?

    I am totally for immigration, but through the due process for several reasons (many of which have already been stated tangents spread throughout other threads):

    >> National Security, do I really need to go into details on this one? In fact for the this ONE reason alone, I feel the laws proposed below are valid and would get my vote.

    Illegal Aliens Working at Critical Facilities
    The Homeland Security Department (search) arrested 57 illegal immigrants last month working at airports and other risk-sensitive facilities around the country, underscoring concerns that lax employment background checks are leaving a security breach for terrorists to exploit.

    In one example, a Peruvian was hired as an airplane mechanic in Greensboro, N.C., using a fake Social Security (search) card he bought for $70 on a soccer field, according to court documents. In another, a Florida power plant was alerted to a Mexican working at its nuclear facility only after being tipped off by labor union employees, company officials said.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153288,00.html
    "Al-Qaeda has considered plans to 'smuggle nuclear materials to Mexico, then operatives would carry material into the U.S.'"

    A key al-Qaeda operative seized in Pakistan recently offered an alarming account of the group's potential plans to target the U.S. with weapons of mass destruction, senior U.S. security officials tell TIME. Sharif al-Masri, an Egyptian who was captured in late August near Pakistan's border with Iran and Afghanistan, has told his interrogators of "al-Qaeda's interest in moving nuclear materials from Europe to either the U.S. or Mexico," according to a report circulating among U.S. government officials.

    Masri also said al-Qaeda has considered plans to "smuggle nuclear materials to Mexico, then operatives would carry material into the U.S.," according to the report, parts of which were read to TIME. Masri says his family, seeking refuge from al-Qaeda hunters, is now in Iran....

    ...U.S. and Mexican intelligence conferred about reports from several al-Qaeda detainees indicating the potential use of Mexico as a staging area "to acquire end-stage chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear material." U.S. officials have begun to keep a closer eye on heavy-truck traffic across the border.

    FULL STORY: http://www.time.com/time/archive/pre...782068,00.html
    >>Health Care. We pay for their care out of our taxes, driving further due to hospitals closing that can’t afford fronting the money for illegal health care, high insurance rates, etc...

    FAIR estimates "there are currently between 287,000 and 363,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year."

    In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated.

    The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens. Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico.
    http://www.theamericanresistance.com...alth_care.html

    An estimated one-third to one-half illegal aliens work off the books. It costs $200 million to provide for emergency health care for illegal aliens in the Border States annually. California with over three million illegals paid $79 million, BUT four of their major LA hospitals bankrupted and shut their doors in 2004. Texas with 1.5 million illegal aliens paid $74 million in hospital care. Who is Texas? You, the taxpayer, that’s who! Because you, in your state, pay commensurate medical care according to your illegal alien population. Georgia ran a $63 million deficit for 64,000 unpaid doctor visits to their Grady Health Care system in 2002. In the same year, Georgia taxpayers paid $27 million for 11,188 anchor baby hospital births. Georgia taxpayers paid a whopping $242 million for educating illegal alien kids in 2003. What is it in your state?
    http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm
    >> Violent Crimes. Across the nation, it averages that 30% of all local and federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, many of which are in for violent crimes, i.e. murder, physical assault, rape, etc....

    Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

    • In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

    • A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

    • The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

    ................

    in 2000, for example, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born. The agency couldn’t find enough pro bono attorneys to represent such an army of criminal aliens (who have extensive due-process rights in contesting deportation) and so would have to request delay after delay. Or enough immigration judges would not be available. In 1997, the INS simply had no record of a whopping 36 percent of foreign-born inmates who had been released from federal and four state prisons without any review of their deportability. They included 1,198 aggravated felons, 80 of whom were soon re-arrested for new crimes.
    http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html

    When an alien criminal gets caught for rape, murder or drug distribution, you pay $1.6 billion annually in prison costs to house, feed and clothe those filling 30 percent of our federal and state prisons
    >> Education.

    While these massive budget deficits cannot be attributed to any single source, the enormous impact of large-scale illegal immigration cannot be ignored. The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states nearly $12 billion annually, and when the children born here to illegal aliens are added, the costs more than double to $28.6 billion.

    .................

    In Texas, the $3.9 billion spent annually educating the children of illegal immigrants could:

    Cover more than the $2.3 billion shortfall identified by the Texas Federation for Teachers for such things as textbooks and pension contributions.
    Make Texas’ salaries for teachers more competitive by national standards, thereby reducing costly attrition, and recruit the 5,000 new teachers needed each year.

    In California, the $7.7 billion spent annually educating the children of illegal immigrants—nearly 13% of the overall 2004–5 education budget—could: ........

    In New York, the $3.1 billion spent annually educating the children of illegal immigrants could: ..........

    In Illinois, the $2 billion spent annually educating the children of illegal immigrants could: .................

    ....................

    http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?nam...rticle&sid=469
    These are just a few areas of challenges we face with illegal immigrants.......PLEASE NOTE I am talking about ALL ILLEGAL Immigrants, not just from Mexico....but also those who overstay their visas for years at a time, etc..... But due to our porous border, statistically a vast majority are from there. This is not racist, it is not discrimination. It is simply bringing those who want to be in our country and those who want to enjoy the opportunities our country provides accountable to our country and actually a legal part of supporting the systems and services that all Americans have an opportunity to take advantage of, ie. health care, education, transportation, law enforcement, etc...

    I have heard that we should ignore the 20 plus MILLION Illegal Immigrants because we profit from their work. There is no doubt that we each benefit for illegal workers, but does it make it right? We would also benefit with lower costs if companies did not have to worry about obeying the laws to conserve and protect the environment. If they did not have to worry about product safety issues and gain gov approval if needed. We could be paying less if we did not have to provide extra security against thieves and terrorists. We would have cheaper products if companies did not have to pay taxes (which some have been found guilty of when paying illegals under the table).

    The point is there are a lot things that we would all benefit from if companies either broke the law or disregarded the safety of the public or their customers. The question might be, why is breaking the illegal immigrant law different than any other national security law they have to abide by? Should immigration laws be exempt from prosecution if violated because it benefits the customer? If so, what other laws then can we ignore to lower the price of products and services for the American consumer?

    SOLUTIONS
    Here are some of the solutions that are being worked on or approved:

    Kyl-Cornyn bill offers 5-year work program to illegal aliens machine-readable, fraud-proof Social Security cards

    FULL STORY: http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3614356

    The immigration bill sponsored by Sens. John Cornyn, R-Texas, and Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., would allow foreign-citizen workers to enter the country for two years, followed by a year break. They could repeat that pattern two more times.

    The legislation would not provide the non-citizens any advantages in obtaining legal residency or citizenship, the senators said.

    "This is a work-and-return program," Kyl said. "It will work for people who participate in the temporary guest worker program and those who are here today, illegally, who will have to return, every one of them, to their country of origin."

    The legislation also calls for the Social Security Administration to issue machine-readable, fraud-proof Social Security cards; increases penalties for employers of illegal workers; authorizes 10,000 new agents over five years to investigate employers hiring illegal workers; and changes laws restricting state and local enforcement of immigration laws.

    Just approved:

    House Gets Tough On Immigration

    The House legislation, billed as a border protection, anti-terrorism and illegal immigration control act, includes such measures as enlisting military and local law enforcement help in stopping illegal entrants and requiring employers to verify the legal status of their workers. It authorizes the building of a fence along parts of the U.S.-Mexico border.

    --------------

    One measure that Republican leaders wouldn't allow a vote on was a volatile proposal to deny citizenship to babies born in this country to illegal immigrants

    ----------------

    Bush has proposed that undocumented immigrants be allowed to get three-year work visas. They could extend those for an additional three years, but would then have to return to their home countries for a year to apply for a new work permit.

    The House bill would beef up border security with the help of local law enforcement and military technology, impose tougher penalties for smuggling and re-entry, and end the “catch and release” policy for illegal non-Mexicans. It makes drunken driving convictions a deportable offense.

    The bill makes unlawful presence in the United States, currently a civil offense, a felony.

    -------------

    end the diversity visa lottery program that's open to countries that send few immigrants to the United States. Opponents said it was susceptible to fraud and could be a way for terrorists to enter the country.

    On Thursday, the House approved an amendment calling for construction of a fence in parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

    The most sweeping provision of the House bill would require all employers in the country, more than 7 million, to submit Social Security numbers and other information to a national data base to verify the legal status of workers.

    FULL STORY: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...n1134684.shtml
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 12/20/2005 at 09:34 PM.
  2. #2  
    One word - K-a-l-i-f-o-r-n-i-a -- in Governor Arnold's best dialect.

    I feel a high post, megathread coming on.
    Last edited by BustAGroove; 12/20/2005 at 11:28 PM.
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