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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    I thought he admited that some of the intelligence was wrong.
    Did he really say there's something wrong with his intelligence?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Consistently devoid of truth.
    Well, he admitted being wrong. That's both new and true.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  3. cardio's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Well, he admitted being wrong. That's both new and true.
    You do have problems comprehending the english lanquage don't you. He stated that some of the intelligance that the world was provided turned out wrong, but as your normal operating agenda you change it to fit your thought process.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Did he really say there's something wrong with his intelligence?
    I doubt he personally went out and took personal surveys in Iraq at the time.

    He said that intelligence throughout the whole world was faulty, and among them, yes, intel from the US.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    You do have problems comprehending the english lanquage don't you. He stated that some of the intelligance that the world was provided turned out wrong, but as your normal operating agenda you change it to fit your thought process.
    Cardio, it has been shown that this administration shaped the intelligence to their goals. Therefore, to say we received incorrect info is to say we requested incorrect info.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    *sigh*

    There you go again. What lies are you saying that Bush said?
    I am not going to review the plethora of falsehoods this administration repeated in it's rush to invade Iraq. Unless you just want to ignore it, it's well documented.
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I am not going to review the plethora of falsehoods this administration repeated in it's rush to invade Iraq. Unless you just want to ignore it, it's well documented.
    DaT, everytime the Bush lied statement is made someone asks for an example, your response is typical, all anyone is asking is for you to back up your statement. If there is a plethora of falshoods it should be simple for you to provide documentation of a lie.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    You do have problems comprehending the english lanquage don't you.
    Come on, my English is better than your GWB's.

    AND I know how to spell potato.

    Besides, it was a joke, my mail above.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I am not going to review the plethora of falsehoods this administration repeated in it's rush to invade Iraq. Unless you just want to ignore it, it's well documented.
    BS

    One example? Pretty please?
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  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Cardio, it has been shown that this administration shaped the intelligence to their goals. Therefore, to say we received incorrect info is to say we requested incorrect info.
    It's been illeged, but to the best of my knowledge not proven beyond a doubt. If it has, please cite.

    But for arguement's sake, let say it is true and a rock solid fact. The CIA intel was only one factor. There was still intel from France, Germany, Russia, UN, Isreal, Saudi, Egypt, England, etc....that said virtually the same exact thing with similiar pros and cons concerning Iraq and their WMD programs and hardware.

    You have already dedicated a whole thread on nearly this exact same topic that Bush lied. Here are my responses to this claim in that thread:

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...76&postcount=9

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...0&postcount=47

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...3&postcount=42

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...4&postcount=56

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...7&postcount=61

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...4&postcount=63

    I will quote only one of these responses in that thread as summary. The others have specific links and cites for additional details about info below:
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    No link to confirm, but if my memory serves me correctly this is just a single document. It was also called into question about whether it was comprehensive or not. The fact was that at this time Saddam was still actively defying UN inspectors confirmation that his nuke program had not be restarted or even totally scrapped to begin with. The inspectors were only left with search private residences for evidence since Saddam was still defying them under the conditions that he was suppose to fully cooperative.

    Again......There was confirmation from over 10 nation's intelligence agencies and nation's leaders AND from the UN intel that Saddam had WMDs...including England, Russia, Iran, Isreal, and France!

    What makes this hard is that we couldn't believe the lies Saddam was telling about his lies. I mean he lied when he had WMDs and tried to hide them. Then he lied that he had WMDs when he didn't have them (though it was proven with docs recovered and by his own personal testimony that he had plans in the works to get them again). In a post 9/11 world, that is not very smart. It's like standing in a dark alley in NYC and you keep on telling a cop you have gun and you might use it while keeping you hands tucked in your jacket pocket point your finger at the cops. It's just stupid.

    There comes a point (aka after 12 years of deceptions and 18 UN resolutions) when you have to call a bluff, when you have to act on the lies of the leader of a proven hostile country.

    The nature of intelligence is gathering all the facts and making a decision of the possibilities of the outcome of that information. It is extremely rare to have a smoking gun in hand whenever making a decision (cuba missile crisis being the ONLY one in modern warfare history I can recall as the exeception to this rule, besides waiting to be attacked as proof such as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 which is least to say counter productive). Yes do a Google News search.......There was confirmation from over 10 nation's inteligence agencies AND from the UN intel that Saddam had WMDs and that is about as close as you can get to that though. Remember that that this was in a time were we were already attacked and know that it will happen again if given half a chance. Given the nature of Saddams continual deceptions he recently admitted to on 7/25/2004 where he purposely tried to give the impression he had WMD until he could finalize his plans and bribes with the Oil for Food scandal to get WMDs again....and the fact that inspections were not working because Saddam admitted to trying to deceive them with a vengance so that we did NOT know he did not have them and more importantly so that Iran did not find out he did not have any....this all has to be considered when analyizing the risk to national security of another homeland attack with either a bio or nuke strike on US soil by waiting until it happend as proof to go after Saddam who was trying his hardest to make it look like he was in a position to do it?

    And again, as quoted 4 posts above.....Clinton was also an important part in the Bush's decision as he had intel from his adminstration that Saddam had possible nuke and unaccounted bio WMDs and confirmed that to Bush.

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...2&postcount=73
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 12/19/2005 at 12:00 PM.
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Cardio, it has been shown that this administration shaped the intelligence to their goals. Therefore, to say we received incorrect info is to say we requested incorrect info.
    As has been said numerous times, we used the information that was available at the time and made decisions based on that intel. The world had this information available and almost everyone came to the same conclusion, sure in hindsight there are a lot of people who "voted for the war before I voted against it before I voted for it after I voted against it" camp, but based on itel availabe ther was overwhelming support by both parites.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    AND I know how to spell potato.
    Dan Quayle.

    You've got your slurs crossed.
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigredgpk
    So the prez is telling everyone how stupid he is and how this war was never based on any report about Weapons of Mass Destruction.

    and i'm missing family guy...

    how the hell did he become prez twice?
    I bet if you change the word "prez" in the above post to "european leader" this thread would have been closed within 30 minutes.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
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  14. #34  
    Sept 12, 2002 - "Al Qaeda terrorists escaped from Afghanistan and are known to be in Iraq." (speech to United Nations urging disarming of Iraq) - think Sept. 12


    Jan 28, 2003 - "We've got the terrorists on the run. We're keeping them on the run. One by one the terrorists are learning the meaning of American justice.

    "Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda." (State of the Union address)



    March 17, 2003 - "The (Saddam ) regime has a history of reckless aggression in the Middle East. It has a deep hatred of America and our friends and it has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda.

    "The security of the world requires disarming Saddam Hussein now." (speech to nation setting 48-hour deadline for Saddam to leave Iraq or face war)


    May 1, 2003 - "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al Qaeda and cut off a source of terrorist funding ... " (announcing end of major combat in Iraq)


    Edited to add:
    Ten days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, President Bush was advised that U.S. intelligence found no credible connection linking the attacks to the regime of Saddam Hussein, or evidence suggesting linkage between Saddam and the al-Qaida terrorist network, according to a published report.

    The report, published Tuesday in The National Journal, cites government records, as well as present and former officials with knowledge of the issue. The information in the story, written by National Journal contributor Murray Waas, points to an abiding administration concern for secrecy that extended to keeping information from the Senate committee charged with investigating the matter.

    In one of the Journal report's more compelling disclosures, Saddam is said to have viewed al-Qaida as a threat, rather than a potential ally.
  15. #35  
    I'll have to check the history books, but I think he received a majority of electoral votes in the last two presidential elections. (See "Constitution: An Introduction to The U.S. Government").
  16. #36  
    Da, Two points:

    1) No context. No link to see context of the one sentence quotes or claims made by third party reference.

    2) Now were claims made from intel that later proved to be faulty.....Not Lying. Or did Bush make the statements against current intel at the time the comment was made.....Lying.

    Big difference that often times seems to be overlooked.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by daHomas
    Sept 12, 2002 - "Al Qaeda terrorists escaped from Afghanistan and are known to be in Iraq." (speech to United Nations urging disarming of Iraq) - think Sept. 12


    Jan 28, 2003 - "We've got the terrorists on the run. We're keeping them on the run. One by one the terrorists are learning the meaning of American justice.

    "Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda." (State of the Union address)



    March 17, 2003 - "The (Saddam ) regime has a history of reckless aggression in the Middle East. It has a deep hatred of America and our friends and it has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda.

    "The security of the world requires disarming Saddam Hussein now." (speech to nation setting 48-hour deadline for Saddam to leave Iraq or face war)


    May 1, 2003 - "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al Qaeda and cut off a source of terrorist funding ... " (announcing end of major combat in Iraq)
    You do know what a lie is, right? There are several online dictionaries available if you need help.
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Da, Two points:

    1) No context. No link to see context of the one sentence quotes or claims made by third party reference.

    2) Now were claims made from intel that later proved to be faulty.....Not Lying. Or did Bush make the statements against current intel at the time the comment was made.....Lying.

    Big difference that often times seems to be overlooked.

    Is google.com blocked on your network?
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You do know what a lie is, right? There are several online dictionaries available if you need help.
    See my edit to that post.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Sept 12, 2002 - "Al Qaeda terrorists escaped from Afghanistan and are known to be in Iraq." (speech to United Nations urging disarming of Iraq) - think Sept. 12


    Jan 28, 2003 - "We've got the terrorists on the run. We're keeping them on the run. One by one the terrorists are learning the meaning of American justice.

    "Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda." (State of the Union address)



    March 17, 2003 - "The (Saddam ) regime has a history of reckless aggression in the Middle East. It has a deep hatred of America and our friends and it has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda.

    "The security of the world requires disarming Saddam Hussein now." (speech to nation setting 48-hour deadline for Saddam to leave Iraq or face war)


    May 1, 2003 - "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al Qaeda and cut off a source of terrorist funding ... " (announcing end of major combat in Iraq)


    Edited to add:
    Ten days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, President Bush was advised that U.S. intelligence found no credible connection linking the attacks to the regime of Saddam Hussein, or evidence suggesting linkage between Saddam and the al-Qaida terrorist network, according to a published report.

    The report, published Tuesday in The National Journal, cites government records, as well as present and former officials with knowledge of the issue. The information in the story, written by National Journal contributor Murray Waas, points to an abiding administration concern for secrecy that extended to keeping information from the Senate committee charged with investigating the matter.

    In one of the Journal report's more compelling disclosures, Saddam is said to have viewed al-Qaida as a threat, rather than a potential ally.
    More from the fever swamps of the Left.

    1. Where was Zarqawi in September of 2002? Answer: Northern Iraq. I know you don't think that counts, but I suspect you're in the minority.

    2. Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas were guests of Saddam for years. Saddam open gave money to PLO homicide bombers. You're saying that these acts are supporting terrorism? Of course you are, because you believe the airplane fuselage at the Iraqi training facility was for training their security forces.

    3. You don't think oppressing his own people, invading Iran and attacking Kuwait weren't acts of aggression?

    Pathetic. Next you'll tell us that you care deeply about our military.
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