Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 151
  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    We are pretty far afield of your original topic, however.
    ......(as Moderator's pet raises his hand...that would be me...).....I stayed on topic with my post.
  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    May I suggest Webster's collegiate edition. It is quite respected in regards to providing definitions. If you notice the words rendition and torture are quite different and when used they make statements mean entirely different things.

    I asked for examples (factual) or incidents where the US Gov't tortured individuals and there have been none, just accusations and insinuations.
    Come on Cardio. Are you really trying to avoid the reality by playing this word game? I'm not even going to pick it apart. You know what's happening, you simply approve of it.
  3. cardio's Avatar
    Posts
    779 Posts
    Global Posts
    787 Global Posts
    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Come on Cardio. Are you really trying to avoid the reality by playing this word game? I'm not even going to pick it apart. You know what's happening, you simply approve of it.
    Do I believe rendition is happening, yes. Do i believe it happened in the previous administrations time, yes. Do I beleive it happens more today than it did with the previous administration, yes. Do I believe that this adminsitration is doing anything different than the previous, no. Do I believe they send them to be tortured, no, and if it happens the individual responsible should be held accountable. Do I believe actions such as this has reduced terrorist activities in the USA, yes.
  4.    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Do I believe rendition is happening, yes. Do i believe it happened in the previous administrations time, yes. Do I beleive it happens more today than it did with the previous administration, yes. Do I believe that this adminsitration is doing anything different than the previous, no. Do I believe they send them to be tortured, no, and if it happens the individual responsible should be held accountable. Do I believe actions such as this has reduced terrorist activities in the USA, yes.
    Was I aware of this under previous admins? No.

    Do I believe the purpose of this is to torture but avoid the U.S. commitment to not use torture? Yes

    Do I, or Republican John McCain, believe this provides usable intelligence.NO!

    Does it belittle our Country in the face of the rest of the world, yes.
  5. cardio's Avatar
    Posts
    779 Posts
    Global Posts
    787 Global Posts
    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Was I aware of this under previous admins? No.

    Do I believe the purpose of this is to torture but avoid the U.S. commitment to not use torture? Yes

    Do I, or Republican John McCain, believe this provides usable intelligence.NO!

    Does it belittle our Country in the face of the rest of the world, yes.
    It was used during the previous administration, a simple google will verify that.

    Both previous and current administration require the receiving country to provide a non-torture statement, what's it worth may be a different story.

    I think it has probably provided usable information or at least made others think twice before they attempt something. Neither one of us can say what info is usable or what is not.

    Most countries have the same type of operations in place, it just does not get the publicity it does here.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Was I aware of this under previous admins? No.
    I really think it would be a little naive to believe that this never happened within the CIA prior to Bush Admin.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Do I believe the purpose of this is to torture but avoid the U.S. commitment to not use torture? Yes
    I think this would be one correct reason along political grounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Do I, or Republican John McCain, believe this provides usable intelligence.NO!
    Except in an interview on MSNBC or Fox News last week, I heard McCain say in light of his bill saying nothing warrants torture, including gaining information of an immanent nuke attack with a bomb already placed in an unknown city on our soil, something to the fact "But it would be in the judgement of the current administration to know when to break these rules." The other person being interviewed with him agreed with McCain's bill, but wanted to put exceptions in the bill instead of forcing anyone to break it in extreme circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Does it belittle our Country in the face of the rest of the world, yes.
    I am sure it is used as a tool to further Anti-USA hatred agendas. Not to justify the means, but it is interesting that many of the groups or govs that are condemning the USA had nothing to say about the beheadings as the terrorists sawed off the heads of their hostages. Or not much of an opinion on Saddam's methods of torture. Or...etc..
  7.    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    It was used during the previous administration, a simple google will verify that.

    Both previous and current administration require the receiving country to provide a non-torture statement, what's it worth may be a different story.

    I think it has probably provided usable information or at least made others think twice before they attempt something. Neither one of us can say what info is usable or what is not.

    Most countries have the same type of operations in place, it just does not get the publicity it does here.
    Yea, wwe've already discussed the one guys accuracy and the prez ackknowledge that today. Of course there is the thought that you can rendition your *** off until you get a few people to say what you want to hear to justify what one wants to do anyway.
  8. cardio's Avatar
    Posts
    779 Posts
    Global Posts
    787 Global Posts
    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, wwe've already discussed the one guys accuracy and the prez ackknowledge that today. Of course there is the thought that you can rendition your *** off until you get a few people to say what you want to hear to justify what one wants to do anyway.
    Agreed, and we know almost everyone who is interrogated will end up with a tortured claim, just like most convicted criminals claim they are innocent.
  9. #89  
    Wow, what happened to not talking about China? Those bastards are the true killers.
  10. #90  
    I tried...no one listened....so if you can't beat them....
  11. #91  
    I suck. I had Chinese for dinner
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Wow, what happened to not talking about China? Those bastards are the true killers.
    They make great $28 DVD players
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  13. #93  
    daThomas, if you are really against inhuman torture of people, then why do you continue to post in this thread!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Why the personal attack?
    It's the proof that there is no way he/she can say anything against my line of argumentation. It's what you do when you have no argument, nothing left of any factual value, the last resort of the helpless. I take it as a compliment.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You're making unwarranted assumptions about rendition - unless you really think that apprehending and interrogating a person is equal to torture.
    So, in your view, why does the CIA kidnap a German in Macedonia and fly him to Afghanistan, and not to Langley or some other CIA base in the US? Is it because the heating costs in Afghanistan are lower, or is it because they can do things to people there which would be illegal in the US, if they feel like it?

    The heating costs would have to be substantially lower, because flying people around in an almost empty Boeing 737 (registrations N313P and N4476S) and other planes is not cheap.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Most countries have the same type of operations in place, it just does not get the publicity it does here.
    So according to you the only difference is that the CIA is unable to keep their operations secret? I consider your statement CIA bashing, shame on you!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    So, in your view, why does the CIA kidnap a German in Macedonia and fly him to Afghanistan, and not to Langley or some other CIA base in the US? Is it because the heating costs in Afghanistan are lower, or is it because they can do things to people there which would be illegal in the US, if they feel like it?
    It is because once in the US the detainee would be within the jurisdiction of the US court system and some well-meaning lawyer would launch a dizzying barrage of lawsuits to get them freed despite whatever danger or information they might represent. This would be obvious to someone who didn't assume our first instinct would be to torture people - in spite of there being no evidence that was our policy. Unless you have some sort of evidence of a policy of wanton torture it would be reasonable for me to assume you are simply bashing the US. Especially in light of the fact tha the world (and presumably you) had no problem with the practice of rendition when it was started during the Clinton administration.

    Nice try, but you're not responding to my point. Rendition is *not* torture and treating them as analogous is disingenuous.
    Current: iPhone 3G
    Retired from active duty: Treo 800w, Sprint Touch, Mogul, Apache, Cingular Treo 650, HP iPaq 4350, T|T, M505 - Nokia 3650 - SE R520m, T610, T637, Moto P280, etc, etc...
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I tried...no one listened....so if you can't beat them....
    Let me try.

    Perhaps the detained journalists is not sufficient for generating discussion. So, let's add to the list:

    Not only do the Chinese hold a handful of journalists. They detain and torture truckloads of Christians (and participants in other unapproved religions).
  19. #99  
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    So, in your view, why does the CIA kidnap a German in Macedonia and fly him to Afghanistan, and not to Langley or some other CIA base in the US? Is it because the heating costs in Afghanistan are lower, or is it because they can do things to people there which would be illegal in the US, if they feel like it?

    The heating costs would have to be substantially lower, because flying people around in an almost empty Boeing 737 (registrations N313P and N4476S) and other planes is not cheap.
    Off Subject reply - being held in another country is analogous to good cop/bad cop. The knowledge that you're in an environment less controlled can be efective at elicited information.

    On topic reply - Thank you for pointing out that torture is still illegal in the US. However, the government of China seems to not to be limited by such.
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions