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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    "We are not in the business of nation building" Gov. Bush 2000
    Wow. That's all you've got? A policy position that was altered by the events of 9/11? That's not even a lie.

    Pretty weak.
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  2. NRG
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Wow. That's all you've got? A policy position that was altered by the events of 9/11? That's not even a lie.

    Pretty weak.
    Where does Iraq have to do with 9/11?
  3. #23  
    Another tired talking point! Move on already.

    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Where does Iraq have to do with 9/11?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Where does Iraq have to do with 9/11?
    In case you hadn't noticed, our security outlook on the world was altered by 9/11...

    What does George Bush's position on nation building in the Balkans when he was Governor of Texas and not President of the US have to do with Iraq?

    I'm still waiting for an example of a lie...
    Last edited by phurth; 12/09/2005 at 02:48 PM.
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    #25  
    Someone once told me that he took a cookie from the cookie jar and when his mom (Barbara) asked who took the cookie from the cookie jar he said, Not Me, could'nt be.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    One only has to look to the Neo-Con website for how far back their plans go.
    Actually if you had bothered to read it, you'd have seen that the story details how Clinton and the Democrats in Congress were for taking action against Iraq in the 1990's.

    Neo-cons are conservatives who used to be liberals (Kristol, Bennett, etc...). That is their unforgivable crime. They left the plantation therefore anything they touch becomes suspect.
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  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Really, what fact would that be?
    The fact that our gov't is aking place in these "rendition" efforts to torture intelligence out of people and the results are completely useless.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I didn't really phrase that correctly. My question is are you sad?
    It makes me feel dejected. It's like watching the eagles play last week and wanting them to win and they throw their third interception/run back.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Actually if you had bothered to read it, you'd have seen that the story details how Clinton and the Democrats in Congress were for taking action against Iraq in the 1990's.

    Neo-cons are conservatives who used to be liberals (Kristol, Bennett, etc...). That is their unforgivable crime. They left the plantation therefore anything they touch becomes suspect.
    No, they're mostly Reagen era conservatives who believed in pre-emptive action. Not converted conservatives.
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The fact that our gov't is aking place in these "rendition" efforts to torture intelligence out of people and the results are completely useless.
    OH, your response was to a response to your statement that Bush lied. I did not follow the logic that you had moved to a different subject. Sorry.

    Rendition did not start with this administration either though, so still not sure where you are going with that thought process.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    It makes me feel dejected. It's like watching the eagles play last week and wanting them to win and they throw their third interception/run back.
    Get used to it. I've been watching Brett Favre do that for years now.
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    No, they're mostly Reagen era conservatives who believed in pre-emptive action. Not converted conservatives.
    Actually, we're both right.

    Wiki Says:
    Neoconservatism refers to the political movement, ideology, and public policy goals of "new conservatives" in the United States, who are mainly characterized by their relatively interventionist and hawkish views on foreign policy, and their lack of support for the "small government" principles and restrictions on social spending, when compared with other American conservatives such as traditional or paleoconservatives.

    The prefix "neo" can denote that many of the movement's founders, originally liberals, Democrats or from socialist backgrounds, were new to conservatism, but can also refer to the comparatively recent emergence of this "new wave" of conservative thought, which coalesced in the early 1970s from a variety of intellectual roots in the decades following World War II. It also serves to distinguish the ideology from the viewpoints of "old" or traditional American conservatism.

    Modern neoconservatism is associated with periodicals such as Commentary and The Weekly Standard and some of the foreign policy initiatives of think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). Neoconservative journalists, pundits, policy analysts, and politicians, often dubbed "neocons" by supporters and critics alike, have been credited with (or blamed for) their influence on U.S. foreign policy, especially under the administrations of Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) and George W. Bush (2001-present), and are particularly noted for their association with and support for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

    The term "neocon," while increasingly popular in recent years, is somewhat controversial and is rejected by many to whom the label is applied. Others say it lacks any coherent definition, especially since many so-called neoconservatives vehemently disagree with one another on major issues.
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  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Get used to it. I've been watching Brett Favre do that for years now.
    Yea, and I've been watching the Bush admin do that for years too.
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Actually, we're both right.

    Wiki Says:
    Agreed.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, and I've been watching the Bush admin do that for years too.
    Well it's not so bad. You've only got 3 more years to wait until we elect the next Republican president.
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  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Well it's not so bad. You've only got 3 more years to wait until we elect the next Republican president.
    Gawd! If only we could elect a "Republican" president we'd get this huge spending under control and repeal most of the Patriot Act.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Gawd! If only we could elect a "Republican" president we'd get this huge spending under control and repeal most of the Patriot Act.
    So you actually want a Libertarian president. Not much chance of that, I'm afraid...
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    You can view the full article here:

    What if Saddam Hussein "fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made?"

    These are the words not of President George W. Bush in September 2002 but of President Bill Clinton on February 18, 1998.
    Oh come on HobbesIsReal, that was more than obvious. Nobody would expect a sentence like that from Bush junior.

    Jokes aside: Clinton pointed to a problem, the (international) pressure was stepped up, causing Saddam to get rid of the WMD he had left (even if he didn't admit it freely). Problem contained without war.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Oh come on HobbesIsReal, that was more than obvious. Nobody would expect a sentence like that from Bush junior.

    Jokes aside: Clinton pointed to a problem, the (international) pressure was stepped up, causing Saddam to get rid of the WMD he had left (even if he didn't admit it freely). Problem contained without war.
    Ditto. I'd rather be containing Saddam still, with UN inspectors on the ground than making our people deal with this frigging mess.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Ditto. I'd rather be containing Saddam still, with UN inspectors on the ground than making our people deal with this frigging mess.
    Yeah. The 12 years we gave them after the Gulf War wasn't long enough.

    What (besides wishful thinking and 20/20 hindsight) makes you think Saddam wouldn't have just chucked the inspectors out when he felt like it (AGAIN)?

    Most people in the reality-based community felt it prudent to rid the world of Saddam once and for all. The world is now a safer place than when Saddam was in control of Iraq. His WMD ambitions have been terminated. 26 million Iraqis are free and will be electing a government next week. There is a low-level insurgency going on in Iraq that is being defeated more and more each day as more and more responsibility is handed back to the Iraqis. I realize none of this helps elect more liberals here in the US, but denying reality and seemingly hoping for us to take it on the chin ain't helping your side's electoral prospects - which for most of the left is all this criticism is about.
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