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  1.    #1  
    So what have we got? The Macedonian police arrests the German Khaled al-Masri because his name sounds similar to the name of somebody who - according to the CIA - has ties to Al-Qaida. The Macedonians wrongly conclude that his passport is false and inform CIA in Skopje.

    After 23 days, the CIA decides to fly the man, who is totally innocent, to Afghanistan, based on nothing but the false assumption that his passport is a fake and that his name sounds like the one of a terrorist suspect. They keep him in an extremely primitive prison where he is subjected to abuse during four months in captivity. Then he is flown to Albania and dumped on a road in the countryside. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/....ap/index.html


    Quetions which remain: how can they be both so arrogant, thinking they can do whatever they feel like with anybody, and at the same time so grotesquely incompetent? Can't they even find out that the guy's passport is not fake, that this person really is a German and has nothing to do with terrorism, before flying him to Afghanistan?

    This combination of arrogance of power and total incompetence is quite frightening, if you ask me.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #2  
    So bad intelligence by the Macedonian police put this guy in Afghanistan via CIA. The CIA thought he was a terrorist. The CIA catches the mistake by Macdonia and sets the guy free. Hope the guy enjoys his $10 million dollar settlement.

    Yawn.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    So bad intelligence by the Macedonian police put this guy in Afghanistan via CIA. The CIA thought he was a terrorist. The CIA catches the mistake by Macdonia and sets the guy free. Hope the guy enjoys his $10 million dollar settlement.

    Yawn.
    Nice try, blaming it on the Macedonians. Fair enough, they triggered the whole mess by arresting the German, but all the rest was done by the CIA. How bad can an intelligence agency be if it isn't even able to tell a fake passport from a real one when it has 23 days to find out, kidnaps innocent people and incarcerates them for four months in a far away country based on nothing? It's both pathetic and tragic...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #4  
    It's neither pathetic nor tragic. It was a mistake. Your outrage and the outrage of your ilk should be the terrorists who cut people's heads off, rape women, blow up subways, buses, people, shopping centers, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    It's both pathetic and tragic...
  5. cardio's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    It's neither pathetic nor tragic. It was a mistake. Your outrage and the outrage of your ilk should be the terrorists who cut people's heads off, rape women, blow up subways, buses, people, shopping centers, etc.
    At least he did not have his gold fillings removed and melted down..... Oh never mind. Regardless of who did anything to anyone some folks will blame the good guys just to try to make their puny self look good.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    It's neither pathetic nor tragic. It was a mistake. Your outrage and the outrage of your ilk should be the terrorists who cut people's heads off, rape women, blow up subways, buses, people, shopping centers, etc.

    Our goal should be to avoid the actions you mention while protecting rights and a public and fair legal process.
  7. #7  
    Ahhh, a warm and fuzzy moment....dat and atm agree on something.

    But to portray this as pathetic and tragic is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Our goal should be to avoid the actions you mention while protecting rights and a public and fair legal process.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    It's neither pathetic nor tragic. It was a mistake. Your outrage and the outrage of your ilk should be the terrorists who cut people's heads off, rape women, blow up subways, buses, people, shopping centers, etc.
    Maybe we should of killed him, just in case he thought of becoming a terrorist.
  9. #9  
    Maybe you should start your own thread labeled 'lame jokes'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Joe
    Maybe we should of killed him, just in case he thought of becoming a terrorist.
  10. cardio's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Joe
    Maybe we should of killed him, just in case he thought of becoming a terrorist.
    Why are you confused and mad? Who are you confused and mad with?

    Here is his statement
    He said he was detained by local authorities for 23 days and then handed over to what he believes was a team of CIA operatives. He then was flown to Afghanistan where he was subjected to abuse during four months in captivity.

    In late May 2004 he was flown to Albania and then put on a plane back to Germany.

    Ok, so detained by locals (not CIA), turned over to maybe CIA, 4 months in captivity (alleged abuse, if true then those commiting need to be held accountable), released and flown to Germany.

    Notice how Clulup added things (primitive prison, dumped in the country side in Afghanistan automatically blames the U.S.). How pathetic is that, have to add your ramblings to make your cite sound good to you.
  11. #11  
    It's interesting to see the perspective of those who are non-American here (besides of course the resident liberal voice of daThomas of course! )

    It appears that most (NON-US) view the power and influence of US intelligence and security forces as more dangerous and frieghtening than that of Islamist terrorists themselves. That is quite disheartening imo and shows a great disconnect between the perspectives of what the US adin sees as a war and what others may see as something less. Too bad b/c IMO it will probably take something catastraphic on the level of 9/11 itself abroad for these views to change in many parts of the world...
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  12. #12  
    I don't understand why we can't have it both ways.

    We can have a higher expectation that the CIA will be thorough AND still go after terrorists and be proactive. I would be willing to bet that if this German Khaled al-Masri had some sort of legal representation (someone actually looking out for his legal interests) that somebody would have proved that his passport was not false and told the proper authorities.

    I would not expect the CIA or any other legal agency to be looking out for yours or my rights (hence the important of due process for everyone).
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  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    It's interesting to see the perspective of those who are non-American here (besides of course the resident liberal voice of daThomas of course! )

    It appears that most (NON-US) view the power and influence of US intelligence and security forces as more dangerous and frieghtening than that of Islamist terrorists themselves.
    That's not what I wrote or meant, but your current government certainly did it's best to create an increasingly unfavourable view of the US.
    Anti-Americanism in Europe, the Middle East and Asia, which surged as a result of the U.S. war in Iraq, shows modest signs of abating. But the United States remains broadly disliked in most countries surveyed, and the opinion of the American people is not as positive as it once was. The magnitude of America's image problem is such that even popular U.S. policies have done little to repair it.
    http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247


    The situation is now such that the US get the least favourable ranking of all nations compared in the survey, only in a few cases China is slightly lower:



    "Accidents" like the above don't go unnoticed.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #14  
    How many of those polled realize that the (varying levels) of freedom they now enjoy is due in large part to the "big stick" the US has wielded for the past several decades?

    The US is not beyond reproach. But the smug attitude toward us, now that the calm (note I did not say peace) we have brokered across the globe has become the norm, is sad. Especially becuase if we put the big stick away those who have been kept at bay will rise up.


    I have been thinking on a phenomenon recently, namely the curious tendency of those who have benefitted from something or someone to eventually begin looking down on that something or someone, all from the lofty perch that the something or someone obtained for them.
  15. #15  
    Wonder what the favorable/unfavorable rating is for Macedonia?

    Why should the USA care what other countries think? Many countries appear they will simply take the opposite opinion on any issue. America doens't negotiate with terrorists and doesn't make decisions based on opinion polls.

    That poll has nothing to do with your original comment anyway. Guy got arrested by Macedonia, thought to be a terrorist - handed over to CIA, mistake realized and he was released. Wrongful arrests happens everyday in every country. Is all of Europe as sensitive as you?

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    That's not what I wrote or meant, but your current government certainly did it's best to create an increasingly unfavourable view of the US.

    The situation is now such that the US get the least favourable ranking of all nations compared in the survey, only in a few cases China is slightly lower:

    "Accidents" like the above don't go unnoticed.
  16. #16  
    Appears freedom is enjoyed by many other countries other than USA, but they don't like fighting for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    How many of those polled realize that the (varying levels) of freedom they now enjoy is due in large part to the "big stick" the US has wielded for the past several decades?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    How many of those polled realize that the (varying levels) of freedom they now enjoy is due in large part to the "big stick" the US has wielded for the past several decades?

    The US is not beyond reproach. But the smug attitude toward us, now that the calm (note I did not say peace) we have brokered across the globe has become the norm, is sad. Especially becuase if we put the big stick away those who have been kept at bay will rise up.


    I have been thinking on a phenomenon recently, namely the curious tendency of those who have benefitted from something or someone to eventually begin looking down on that something or someone, all from the lofty perch that the something or someone obtained for them.
    AMEN!!
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    How many of those polled realize that the (varying levels) of freedom they now enjoy is due in large part to the "big stick" the US has wielded for the past several decades?
    I guess this has a lot to do with a US-centric world view. You grow up with Hollywood Word War II movies and you believe Hitler lost the war on D-Day in the Normandie, while in fact he lost it in Russia, thanks to the sacrifice of millions of Russian lives.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19. #19  
    Your apparent bitter view of USA seems typical of a European. Anything you do like about America?

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I guess this has a lot to do with a US-centric world view. You grow up with Hollywood Word War II movies and you believe Hitler lost the war on D-Day in the Normandie, while in fact he lost it in Russia, thanks to the sacrifice of millions of Russian lives.
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Your apparent bitter view of USA seems typical of a European. Anything you do like about America?
    There is nothing bitter about my view of the US. To the contrary, I am sad and worried about what that hillbilly person did to the US in the past few years.

    The current administration is the problem, not the US (or their inhabitants) as such. That's a view that is very nicely expressed in the survey above. The favourable opinions were clearly in the majority prior to Bush junior, they went down the drain because of him and the policies of his administration.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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