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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You're assuming the "outside help" we should seek has a track record of anything other than utter disaster. Like it or not, we are the only force capable of helping Iraqis to stabilize and secure their own country.
    You're assuming the outside help would have to be the U.N.

    Europeans could be brought into this situation.
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Lieberman?????? You've got to be kidding!!?!?! BwaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

    ROFLMAO!!!!
    Hey, I remember the same group of people shouting for joy when a moderate democrat won an election just 3 weeks ago, and boasted a democrat is a democrat regardless of how moderate, now they laugh at their party members if they disagree with the blind party line? I guess it only matters when it fits into your view.
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You're assuming the outside help would have to be the U.N.

    Europeans could be brought into this situation.
    Countries with forces in Iraq as at 6 June 2004

    Albania , Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Latvia,
    Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Singapore, Slovakia, Thailand, Ukraine,
    United Kingdom, United States

    Who do you propose brining in? The French, Swiss and Germans?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Countries with forces in Iraq as at 6 June 2004

    Albania , Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Latvia,
    Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Singapore, Slovakia, Thailand, Ukraine,
    United Kingdom, United States

    Who do you propose brining in? The French, Swiss and Germans?
    The French and the Russians. And not at the PUNY and laughable levels of those you mentioned above. I'm sorry you had to do that. It's ok to feel dirty.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Hey, I remember the same group of people shouting for joy when a moderate democrat won an election just 3 weeks ago, and boasted a democrat is a democrat regardless of how moderate, now they laugh at their party members if they disagree with the blind party line? I guess it only matters when it fits into your view.
    I'll GLADLY take a McCain over a Lieberman ANY DAY!
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I don't know who is advocating full evac now? That's pretty ridiculous. I know a lot are saying START now by sending 10,000 - 20,000 home (showing we're seriously leaving) then phase them out over the next six months to a year. Hell, I think Kerry's plan is longer than that.
    John and Nancy come to mind. In fact John Murtha stated flat out that the full and immediate withdrawl from Iraq must be announced PRIOR to the Iraq elections in December:


    Friday, November 18, 2005; Page A01

    Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.), The top House Democrat on military spending matters stunned colleagues yesterday by calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, while many congressional Democrats reacted defiantly to President Bush's latest attack on his critics.

    ------------

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told colleagues at a closed meeting yesterday morning that she, too, would advocate an immediate troop withdrawal, according to several who attended. But by day's end, Pelosi -- a liberal who has sharply criticized Bush's handling of the war -- chose merely to praise Murtha and say he deserved to have "his day."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111700794.html
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The French and the Russians. And not at the PUNY and laughable levels of those you mentioned above. I'm sorry you had to do that. It's ok to feel dirty.
    The French BAWHAHAHAHA, they surrendered to the rioting teenagers in Paris.

    The list was in response to your reference to outside help, I am sure you were thinking the US acted alone mantra when you wrote it, if not my apologies.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    John and Nancy come to mind. In fact John Murtha stated flat out that the full and immediate withdrawl from Iraq must be announced PRIOR to the Iraq elections in December:
    Murtha is calling for a six month re-deployment, to BEGIN "immediately".
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The French and the Russians. And not at the PUNY and laughable levels of those you mentioned above. I'm sorry you had to do that. It's ok to feel dirty.
    You're kidding, right? The two countries that did the most to try and cut our tires? The Russians are already busy with their own Islamofacists. The French are... well... French. The French riding to the rescue. Ha!
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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You're kidding, right? The two countries that did the most to try and cut our tires? The Russians are already busy with their own Islamofacists. The French are... well... French. The French riding to the rescue. Ha!
    Yea, the two with the most vested interests. I know you just want to stereotype, but try to think it through.
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, the two with the most vested interests. I know you just want to stereotype, but try to think it through.
    Please share what the most vested interests are.
  12. #52  
    anyone here can cite an article to support their opinions and theories. So let's look historically, Japan, Germany as two examples. We destroyed them, and rebuilt them, and their both in the top 10 countries of the world. we're doing the same for iraq.

    let's look at the casualties for WWII, Vietnam, Gulf war, and iraqi freedom
    Reference
    WWII US casualties, 300,000 over 4 years
    Reference
    Vietnam US causualties, 58,226
    Reference
    Gulf War US casualties, 8306
    Reference
    Iraqi Freedom2343

    I don't think that anyone can say that WWII in its most obvious granduer of loss, was a waste of life or resources. Germany, Japan, almost all of Europe and western Asia are what they are because we didn't allow Hitler (and the axis powers) to complete his(their) vision. We have accomplished the mission of overthrowing Hussien and are currently rebuilding to allow Iraq the chance to become a world super power with our help. JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES WE'VE HELPED.

    You can see that historically we've become very efficient with our wartime operations.

    We could include some of the smaller countries that we've helped as well, lebanon, isreal, panama, and we could logically conclude that with our help they have become better countries, whether vastly or marginally. We don't draft, and most active duty military have entered the military after 9/11. (I haven't found any #'s yet to compare career military VS 1st tour military personnel) BUT THEY'VE made the choice to serve with the obvious commitment to serve to president of the united states and the country's call of duty.
    Last edited by cheetahjeremy; 11/29/2005 at 05:03 PM.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Murtha is calling for a six month re-deployment, to BEGIN "immediately".
    He stated an immediate withdrawal that will be finalized with the last troops leaving within 6 months. Here is he exact quote from the transcript:

    I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis. I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid-December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice: The United States will immediately redeploy -- immediately redeploy.

    No schedule which can be changed, nothing that's controlled by the Iraqis, this is an immediate redeployment of our American forces because they have become the target.

    All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free, free from a United States occupation.

    ----------

    My plan calls for immediate redeployment of U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces to create a quick reaction force in the region, to create an over-the-horizon presence of Marines, and to diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq.

    ----------

    QUESTION: Mr. Murtha, you say that -- your first point about bringing them home, consistent with the safety of U.S. forces. You know about these matters. What is your sense as to how long that would be?

    MURTHA: I think that you get them out of there in six months. I think that we could do it -- you have to do it in a very consistent way, but I think six months would be a reasonable time to get them out of there.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111700982.html
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaThomas
    Yea, the two with the most vested interests. I know you just want to stereotype, but try to think it through.
    I was being flip, but obviously the Russians and French have vested interests - that's part of the problem. Their interests do not necessarily line up with our interests. Both countries supplied Iraq with advanced weaponry during the UN sanctions regime after the '91 Gulf War, for example.
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  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Please share what the most vested interests are.
    Sigh. Please research the oil agreements between Russia and Iraq & France and Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion. They aleady think they know what's there and what it's worth.

    Also, don't dismiss these contracts as having an influence on the U.S. invading.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    He stated an immediate withdrawal that will be finalized with the last troops leaving within 6 months. Here is he exact quote from the transcript:
    This is different than what I stated how?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by cheetahjeremy
    anyone here can cite an article to support their opinions and theories. So let's look historically, Japan, Germany as two examples. We destroyed them, and rebuilt them, and their both in the top 10 countries of the world. we're doing the same for iraq.

    let's look at the casualties for WWII, Vietnam, Gulf war, and iraqi freedom
    Reference
    WWII US casualties, 300,000 over 4 years
    Reference
    Vietnam US causualties, 58,226
    Reference
    Gulf War US casualties, 8306
    Reference
    Iraqi Freedom2343

    I don't think that anyone can say that WWII in its most obvious granduer of loss, was a waste of life or resources. Germany, Japan, almost all of Europe and western Asia are what they are because we didn't allow Hitler (and the axis powers) to complete his(their) vision. We have accomplished the mission of overthrowing Hussien and are currently rebuilding to allow Iraq the chance to become a world super power with our help. JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES WE'VE HELPED.

    You can see that historically we've become very efficient with our wartime operations.

    We could include some of the smaller countries that we've helped as well, lebanon, isreal, panama, and we could logically conclude that with our help they have become better countries, whether vastly or marginally. We don't draft, and most active duty military have entered the military after 9/11. (I haven't found any #'s yet to compare career military VS 1st tour military personnel) BUT THEY'VE made the choice to serve with the obvious commitment to serve to president of the united states and the country's call of duty.
    Holy crap! Do me a favor.... Never "help" me please.

    Oh, BTW, how much help have we given the Palestinians?

    "We don't draft, and most active duty military have entered the military after 9/11. (I haven't found any #'s yet to compare career military VS 1st tour military personnel) BUT THEY'VE made the choice to serve with the obvious commitment to serve to president of the united states and the country's call of duty." <--- That's just completely delusional.
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Sigh. Please research the oil agreements between Russia and Iraq & France and Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion. They aleady think they know what's there and what it's worth.

    Also, don't dismiss these contracts as having an influence on the U.S. invading.
    I was really hoping you had something other than that. So the Russian and French desire for the oil is more important than any other countries desire for the oil (most vested interest). I guess I can see that with the under the table, behind the back against, the UN Mandate deals they were reaching for oil, and the selling/trading of weapons for the ability to work a contract.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    I was being flip, but obviously the Russians and French have vested interests - that's part of the problem. Their interests do not necessarily line up with our interests. Both countries supplied Iraq with advanced weaponry during the UN sanctions regime after the '91 Gulf War, for example.
    Oh holy crap! And who sold Iraq chemical weapons used during the HORRIBLE Iran/Iraq war?

    No, Europe's interests are different than ours. And by interests. I'm talking global economics, of which I don't believe war should be a factor but here we have the bully country getting outmaneuvered by it's global economic competitors so it pushes them down instead of losing in musical oil sources? Sad.
  20. #60  
    You originally stated that you did not know of anyone calling for immediate withdrawal, so it was just clarification that there are Dems calling for immediate withdrawal with actions starting prior to Dec Iraqi Elections.

    With tens of thousands of troops you would expect there to be transport time, which is what Murtha was referring to with his call for an immediate evac having the last soldier leaving putting the garbage on the curb on the way out.
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