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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    What may that mission be?
    Yes, please do tell. Seems to me, the soldiers have done their part. What remains undone has less to do with soldiering than it does with the (mistaken) expectations of the outcome of this "regime change".
  2.    #22  
    Then take a few minutes and figure out where to start. Go back to the Vietnam war and the stuff that was flying out of Senator Kennedy's mouth. Listen to the whining of the Democrat/Socialists all through the Cold War, and then listen as they tried to claim credit for the victory. Remember how Al Gore sold his vote on GWI...whoever was going to give him the prime time was going to get his vote.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes, please do tell.
    The mission was to depose Saddam Hussein and provide a secure environment for a democratically elected government to assume control of Iraq.

    Or in your worldview the mission was to sacrifice innocent civilians in an immoral war to make Halliburton 1000% profitable for the Bu****er Empire.
  4.    #24  
    Yes. About 25% of the military are Democrats. What do you think they have to say as they watch the extreme left wing of their party denigrating their service?

    You must've heard what the troops told the senate team that visited Gitmo?
  5. #25  
    I watched the entire debate a couple weeks ago regarding the vote whether to call for an immediate troop pullout or not.

    I found it fascinating that while Rep. Murtha read many letters, each and every one was from a wife or mother of a soldier asking for us to bring them home. I heard none written by soldiers themselves.

    The Republicans also read many letters and e-mails - from actual soldiers who wanted to make sure we didn't cut and run.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    I watched the entire debate a couple weeks ago regarding the vote whether to call for an immediate troop pullout or not.

    I found it fascinating that while Rep. Murtha read many letters, each and every one was from a wife or mother of a soldier asking for us to bring them home. I heard none written by soldiers themselves.

    The Republicans also read many letters and e-mails - from actual soldiers who wanted to make sure we didn't cut and run.
    WTF do people mean by cut and run. What do you expect our people to do? Say "sorry we bombed and de-stabalized your country, we'll stay here while you work out decades of factional rivalries."?

    That's a pretty crappy thing for a commander in chief to ask of his military.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    WTF do people mean by cut and run. What do you expect our people to do? Say "sorry we bombed and de-stabalized your country, we'll stay here while you work out decades of factional rivalries."?

    That's a pretty crappy thing for a commander in chief to ask of his military.
    I would have say that total and immediate withdrawal before the final elections establishing the new gov would be defined as cut and run.

    Now, if it was two years after the gov has been firmly established, that is a different story and would certainly need to be evaluated.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 11/29/2005 at 01:18 PM.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    WTF do people mean by cut and run.
    To pull out immediately prior to the completion of the mission. The mission is to bring security, stability and democracy to Iraq. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
    What do you expect our people to do? Say "sorry we bombed and de-stabalized your country, we'll stay here while you work out decades of factional rivalries."?
    Perhaps if they have a fair, democratically elected government they will be able to work their differences out without resorting to violence. Perhaps not. To assume they're incapable of it is a bit cold, don't you think?
    That's a pretty crappy thing for a commander in chief to ask of his military.
    Bringing hope for a better life to 26,074,906 people is a pretty good mission, actually.
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  9. #29  
    Found this article as an interesting view of Iraq from a Dem who has actually visited Iraq 4 times in the last 17 months:

    Lieberman Expresses Confidence in Iraq After Thanksgiving Visit
    Tuesday, November 29, 2005


    "The country is now in reach of going from Saddam Hussein to self-government and, I'd add, self-protection," the Connecticut Democrat said in a conference call with reporters. "That would be a remarkable transformation ... I saw real progress there."

    Lieberman, one of the most hawkish Democrats in the Senate, said the effectiveness of Iraqi security forces and the ability of a new Iraqi government to rule after the Dec. 15 elections are critical factors in determining when U.S. troops could come home. But if all goes well, he forsees a pullout beginning a year from now.

    "If Iraqi forces continue to gain the confidence the American military sees there now ... We will be able to draw down our forces," he said.

    Lieberman has visited Iraq four times in 17 months. He said there are signs life is returning to normal, including a profusion of cell phones and satellite TV dishes on rooftops.

    "About two-thirds of the country is in really pretty good shape," he said, noting most attacks are in the so-called "Sunni Triangle" region. "Overall, I came back encouraged."

    ------------------------

    U.S. military officials told him they hope that by next year, two-thirds of Iraq's military will be able to carry the fight to insurgents with limited logistical support from U.S. forces. Lieberman said U.S. commanders had learned from their early mistakes and were successfully pursuing a "clear-hold-build" strategy against rebel forces.

    He cautioned, however, that "prematurely" pulling out U.S. forces would jeopardize the progress made thus far.

    Full Story....
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    #30  
    Another article on Liebermans visit just so we don't hear "FOX BAHAHAHAHWHWHAHA"

    We Do Have A Plan'
    Returning From Iraq, Lieberman Praises U.S. Strategy, Urges Bush To Tout Successes

    http://www.courant.com/news/nationwo...lines-breaking
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Another article on Liebermans visit just so we don't hear "FOX BAHAHAHAHWHWHAHA"
    You do a really good daThomas!

    Seriously, it's an AP story - unless being delivered by Fox somehow makes it dirty.
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    You do a really good daThomas!

    Seriously, it's an AP story - unless being delivered by Fox somehow makes it dirty.
    Thanks, been working on that impression for quite some time, (do not try at home it takes about a gallon of Kool-aid to get it right)

    If it is linked to FOX it automatically becomes useless blog material in some peoples belief system.
  13. #33  
    And the same with Rep with CNN sometimes as well.....both silly points of view IMHO.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I would have say that total and immediate withdrawal before the final elections establishing the new gov would be defined as cut and run.

    Now, if it was two years after the gov has been firmly established, that is a different story and would certainly need to be evaluated.
    Forgive my ignorance on the subject but when will the Iraqi gov't be firmly established? Why the 2 year time frame? Arbitrary?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    To pull out immediately prior to the completion of the mission. The mission is to bring security, stability and democracy to Iraq. Why is this so hard for you to understand?Perhaps if they have a fair, democratically elected government they will be able to work their differences out without resorting to violence. Perhaps not. To assume they're incapable of it is a bit cold, don't you think?Bringing hope for a better life to 26,074,906 people is a pretty good mission, actually.

    My entire point was that this Administration took a chance on the "They'll throw flowers to the American soldiers" as opposed to "You break it you own it", rolled the dice and they came up craps.

    Now you think it's fair to keep the troops in that craptastic situation for the next decade while all this shakes out? No thanks. This administration fawked up and needs to seek outside help to diminish the U.S. presence which is provoking the situation.
  16. #36  
    Lieberman?????? You've got to be kidding!!?!?! BwaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

    ROFLMAO!!!!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Lieberman?????? You've got to be kidding!!?!?! BwaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

    ROFLMAO!!!!
    Funny how a Democrat who wanders even a little off the plantation is ridiculed by the left while a Republican who does the same is (McCain) heaped with praise.

    Lieberman was the vice-presidential nominee in 2000... it's not like he's some fringe loon. I suppose not being a fringe loon does put him on the outside of today's Democrat party...
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Lieberman?????? You've got to be kidding!!?!?! BwaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

    ROFLMAO!!!!
    Easy out for an opinion not matching yours. Do you feel his is lying? Is he misrepresenting? If so, what is the basis for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Forgive my ignorance on the subject but when will the Iraqi gov't be firmly established? Why the 2 year time frame? Arbitrary?
    My point is many far Lefties are saying full evac immediately....before the last of the elections establishing the new gov have even taken place! That is cut and run.

    As far as the 2 yrs...just a number thrown out. In other words if the Iraqi gov has been fully elected, the constitution fully enacted, and two years down the line we still have same number of troops supporting the Iraqi forces, then I think many who support staying now to establishing the gov would start to seriously evaluate the situation at that time.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    My entire point was that this Administration took a chance on the "They'll throw flowers to the American soldiers" as opposed to "You break it you own it", rolled the dice and they came up craps.

    Now you think it's fair to keep the troops in that craptastic situation for the next decade while all this shakes out? No thanks. This administration fawked up and needs to seek outside help to diminish the U.S. presence which is provoking the situation.
    No. I'm for finishing the job. How many times do I need to repeat that?

    You're assuming the "outside help" we should seek has a track record of anything other than utter disaster. Like it or not, we are the only force capable of helping Iraqis to stabilize and secure their own country.
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    My point is many far Lefties are saying full evac immediately....before the last of the elections establishing the new gov have even taken place! That is cut and run.

    As far as the 2 yrs...just a number thrown out. In other words if the Iraqi gov has been fully elected, the constitution fully enacted, and two years down the line we still have same number of troops supporting the Iraqi forces, then I think many who support staying now to establishing the gov would start to seriously evaluate the situation at that time.
    I don't know who is advocating full evac now? That's pretty ridiculous. I know a lot are saying START now by sending 10,000 - 20,000 home (showing we're seriously leaving) then phase them out over the next six months to a year. Hell, I think Kerry's plan is longer than that.
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