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  1.    #1  
    Rolling Stone story covering the head of the propaganda machine.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by burnout
    Rolling Stone story covering the head of the propaganda machine.
    Interesting article. I have always found it striking how many were (are?) conviced that Saddam was personally involved in 9/11. Even in mid 2003, 70% of Americans still believed it, despite total lack of evidence pointing into that direction (Source).

    I find it hard to believe that this was only the result of lack of understanding of Middle East politics, it seems more likely to me that this misbelief was the result of a carefully crafted PRPRPR $effort$, $too$.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  3. #3  
    Things that make you think a little......
    1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American City , about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq
    2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea , North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year. John F. Kennedy....started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
    3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.
    Last edited by sxtg; 11/18/2005 at 08:57 AM.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    ......Germany never attacked us: Japan did.....
    True but misleading. We declared war on Japan and Germany declared war on us. Historians contend that this mistake was second only to Hitler's decision to turn on the Soviet Union.

    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    ......From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea....
    Arguable.
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    ......, North Korea never attacked us.
    True but they did attack their neighbors and we had a UN mandate to defend them. We went into Iraq when the UN had specifically and repeatedly told us to wait.
  5. #5  
    Germany declared war on us because they were allied with Japan and we had been providing England with weapons and material, as well as engaging their submarines in combat, for some time.

    Where was your vaunted UN when Bill Clinton executed an undeclared war in the Balkans? And in view of the ongoing food for oil scandal, are you willing to surrender US soverignty in foreign affairs to such an obviously morally bankrupt organization?
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Things that make you think a little......
    1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January
    How many total deaths, including civilian casualties? Oh, nevermind - you conservatives don't seem to care how many Iraqi civs die - just how many soldiers die.
    3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban,
    Who, with the lack of troops in Afghanistan is now making a striking comeback...

    crippled al-Qaida
    Who just did a "bang up" job in Jordan last week...crippled indeed...

    By the way...where is that darned Osama Bin Laden? Oh, nevermind, we caught Saddam...I guess that will do. Osama who?

  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Things that make you think a little......
    1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American City , about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq
    2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea , North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year. John F. Kennedy....started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
    3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.
    if this is non-original material that you did not write, it should be sourced
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    if this is non-original material that you did not write, it should be sourced
    It came in an email to me. The email contained a "so and so said" reference. I decided to edit my post to remove the name, because I don't have time to verify it this morning.

    Funny how Reps. are always told to "cite" however the Dems spew rhetoric with not only a blatant disregard to to actual facts but also in direct conflict to thier previous opinions/statements and this seems to be not only excepted but, expected.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Indicator
    How many total deaths, including civilian casualties? Oh, nevermind - you conservatives don't seem to care how many Iraqi civs die - just how many soldiers die.


    Who, with the lack of troops in Afghanistan is now making a striking comeback...



    Who just did a "bang up" job in Jordan last week...crippled indeed...

    By the way...where is that darned Osama Bin Laden? Oh, nevermind, we caught Saddam...I guess that will do. Osama who?

    Cite source on the Taliban's "striking comeback".

    When AQ has to target Muslims they are indeed crippled. What a shocking display of weakness that was. Just like the mosque bombings in Iraq today. (Of course you probably think our storm troopers did that.)
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Germany declared war on us because they were allied with Japan and we had been providing England with weapons and material, as well as engaging their submarines in combat, for some time.
    Hitler declared war on us in the expectation that japan would then declare war on Russia. (where thngs had already begun to go very badly for him.)

    Japan, now interested in the oil & resources of SE asia -- and having been themselves badly mauled by the Russians in brief war years earlier -- did not want to join germany's russian quagmire.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Where was your vaunted UN when Bill Clinton executed an undeclared war in the Balkans?
    how many americans died in Bosnia ??

    is Bosnia now at peace because of Bill Clinton's wise leadership ??
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #11  
    I don't think we had any combat casualties in Bosnia. But the POINT was that we acted there unilaterally.

    (But who can forget the debacle of having those three soldiers captured, or our F-117 shot down.)

    And is Bosnia really at peace, or just set to simmer?

    Also, what US interest was served by intervening there. I've read the only reason that Clinton got us involved was to placate the Muslim world, since he had been bombing Saddam's WMD program.

    And speaking of Bill, what did you think of his performance in Bahrain earlier this week? Treasonous is the word that springs to my mind. Of course, what should we expect from a draft dodger that went to Moscow. (Did we ever figure out who it was that paid for that vacation?)
  12. #12  
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...402437_pf.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060800574.html

    http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2630-9864r.htm (Opinion/Commentary)

    http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=108041 (Pakistan News)

    http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=39476 (Turkish Press)

    Perhaps "striking" is too strong a word, but there is no denying that Afghanistan (and the remaining troops we have there) are all but forgotten, left to the increasingly dangerous conditions and warring tribes that led the Taliban to power in the first place.

    Why is it that the Administration is more than happy to defend their stance in Iraq, chanting "WMD, WMD," but whenever the question, "Where is Bin Laden?" all we get are blank stares and silence?

    Edited to fix URL.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ...is Bosnia now at peace because of Bill Clinton's wise leadership ??
    If measure of peace in the wake of the intervention is the measuring stick, the jury should not be deliberating on Iraq yet.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    I don't think we had any combat casualties in Bosnia. But the POINT was that we acted there unilaterally.

    (But who can forget the debacle of having those three soldiers captured, or our F-117 shot down.)

    And is Bosnia really at peace, or just set to simmer?

    Also, what US interest was served by intervening there. I've read the only reason that Clinton got us involved was to placate the Muslim world, since he had been bombing Saddam's WMD program.

    And speaking of Bill, what did you think of his performance in Bahrain earlier this week? Treasonous is the word that springs to my mind. Of course, what should we expect from a draft dodger that went to Moscow. (Did we ever figure out who it was that paid for that vacation?)

    Clinton, not wanting for us to be directly involved had hoped the EU would be able to handle this horror in its own backyard.

    He went into Bosnia because there was no other force capable of doing it.

    Clinton was supportive of junior initially in his idiotic iraq adventure (giving junior the "benefit of the doubt" like many democratic leaders after 9/11)

    CLinton answered honestly when asked how he thinks things are going in iraq now, and if he would have gone in there himself.

    (Maybe if junior listens to what Bill had to say, he will learn about what's going on in Iraq -- junior seems otherwise oblivious.)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #15  
    Seems that the resurgent Taliban you speak of are based in Pakistan. The idea of of the Afghanistan campaign was to remove that country as their base of operations. Now they're having to fight there, rather than, say, send their men to fly airliners into our buildings. Mission accomplished, to coin a phrase.

    Bin Laden is hardly critical to the war on terror. Sure, it would be VERY nice to bag him, but he has been a figure head for quite some time. Zarqawi, on the other hand, is the Jihadi I'd most like to see quivvering on the end of my bayonet. And where is he?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    If measure of peace in the wake of the intervention is the measuring stick, the jury should not be deliberating on Iraq yet.
    how much chaos, civil strife, civl war, and attacks on american peacemaking soldiers occurred in Bosnia after our arrival there ???

    I would love for Bosnia to be the "meausuring stick" with which to compare the brilliance of Bill Clinton to the idiocy of generalissomo junior.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Seems that the resurgent Taliban you speak of are based in Pakistan. The idea of of the Afghanistan campaign was to remove that country as their base of operations. Now they're having to fight there, rather than, say, send their men to fly airliners into our buildings. Mission accomplished, to coin a phrase.

    Bin Laden is hardly critical to the war on terror. Sure, it would be VERY nice to bag him, but he has been a figure head for quite some time. Zarqawi, on the other hand, is the Jihadi I'd most like to see quivvering on the end of my bayonet. And where is he?

    where is he ? where is Zarquawi ????

    its a place in the middle of hell

    its called iraq

    the same place where he was (more or less) before the war -- except then in a confined area of northern Iraq surrounded by an area controled by the Kurds -- who begged us for assistance in eliminating Zarqawi.

    junior preferred to let zarquawi continue to exist so as to maintain the lie that Saddamm "harbored" terrorists" !!!

    We reap what he sows...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Clinton, not wanting for us to be directly involved had hoped the EU would be able to handle this horror in its own backyard.

    He went into Bosnia because there was no other force capable of doing it.

    Clinton was supportive of junior initially in his idiotic iraq adventure (giving junior the "benefit of the doubt" like many democratic leaders after 9/11)

    CLinton answered honestly when asked how he thinks things are going in iraq now, and if he would have gone in there himself.

    (Maybe if junior listens to what Bill had to say, he will learn about what's going on in Iraq -- junior seems otherwise oblivious.)
    Of course there were other forces capapble of intervening in Bosnia...they just didn't think it was important enough.

    Clinton is a former President of the United States, speaking on foreign policy matters while standing on foreign soil. The fact that he still seeks the public stage on such matters contravenes hundreds of years of protocol and precedent. That he would make such statements just a few hundred miles from where American soldiers are locked in combat speaks to his character, or rather the familiar narcissism . He really is an "it's all about me" sick puppy. We'll be forever washing the stain that man left, and he continues to do irreparable harm.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    where is he ? where is Zarquawi ????

    its a place in the middle of hell

    its called iraq

    the same place where he was (more or less) before the war -- except then in a confined area of northern Iraq surrounded by an area controled by the Kurds -- who begged us for assistance in eliminating Zarqawi.

    junior preferred to let zarquawi continue to exist so as to maintain the lie that Saddamm "harbored" terrorists" !!!

    We reap what he sows...
    Uh, Barye. I think you're saying that Zarqawi is a terrorist, and that he was in Iraq prior to the liberation. Then how is it that W is lying that Saddam was harboring terrorists? Help me out here.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Of course there were other forces capapble of intervening in Bosnia...they just didn't think it was important enough.

    Clinton is a former President of the United States, speaking on foreign policy matters while standing on foreign soil. The fact that he still seeks the public stage on such matters contravenes hundreds of years of protocol and precedent. That he would make such statements just a few hundred miles from where American soldiers are locked in combat speaks to his character, or rather the familiar narcissism . He really is an "it's all about me" sick puppy. We'll be forever washing the stain that man left, and he continues to do irreparable harm.

    my laundry informs me that jism stains are more removable than those from blood

    (the stain from the unneccesasary 2085 killed, and 15,000 wounded so far in iraq, is especially hard to remove)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
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