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  1.    #1  
    So i just found out that cingular will be releasing HSDPA in 15-20 markets by years end. Now which service providor is going to have the fastest internet access? I know verizon is going to release their upgrade to EV-DO around the same time so which one is going to be better? Also, will the next treo be HSDPA and EV-DO compatible?
  2. #2  
    A huge advantage that HSDPA will have over EV-DO is that WCDMA based systems can handle simultaneous voice and data, whereas CDMA2K systems cannot
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

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  3. #3  
    Read this:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1771797,00.asp

    Links in the story provide graphs and tables for performance data.
  4. #4  
    I've read reports that HSDPA is not meeting expectations, only getting 400-700 Kbits/sec like EVDO.

    http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/509525-1.html

    But HSDPA will apparently have better/lower latency, under 100ms vs. 200-300ms for EVDO. Cingular should tout that as latency is a pretty big deal for certain applications. Although the next gen EVDO coming in a year or so will have similar latency.

    It will be a challenge for Cingular to get nationwide coverage with HSDPA as they have varying technologies at different cellsites. They also keep announcing delays for rollouts. Cingular is also STILL rolling out last gen EDGE, way behind Sprint/Verizon.

    I've been using both Sprint/Verizon EVDO on laptops and it's wonderful to not have to search for WiFi hotspots. The bandwidth isn't as high as WiFi but it's good enough.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  5. #5  
    anyone have any new info on this debate? i'm wondering in particular if the "new evdo" mentioned above will require a new hardware radio on the phone. i'm conidering the sprint ppc-6700 and hope that it would support the new low-latency evdo version since latency is a big factor in performance.
    Pen+Paper > Treo300 > Treo600 > Treo 700p
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwein84
    So i just found out that cingular will be releasing HSDPA in 15-20 markets by years end. Now which service providor is going to have the fastest internet access? I know verizon is going to release their upgrade to EV-DO around the same time so which one is going to be better? Also, will the next treo be HSDPA and EV-DO compatible?
    You need to go with whoever provides better coverage in your area. The HSDPA vs EVDO argument is moot if one provides substantially better (or worse) coverage than the other. Plus, you need to consider the data plans as well. I wouldn't trade Sprint's unlimited EVDO for $15 for a slightly faster and significantly more expensive HSDPA any day.

    And since there is no announced or rumored GSM 700 yet, no one knows if it will support HSDPA or not.
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    #7  
    T-Mobile has announced that they will be introducing either UMTS or HSDPA starting sometime in 2006 into 2007. Apparently they've decided that no one want to buy their US division and they're not willing to walk away from the money that higher speeds will bring. I still think it's going to be difficult for them to become a leading player unless they go with HSDPA and really good pricing.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

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  8. Minsc's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    T-Mobile has announced that they will be introducing either UMTS or HSDPA starting sometime in 2006 into 2007. Apparently they've decided that no one want to buy their US division and they're not willing to walk away from the money that higher speeds will bring. I still think it's going to be difficult for them to become a leading player unless they go with HSDPA and really good pricing.
    Are UMTS and HSDPA two independent things?? I've always been under the assumption that HSDPA is an "add-on" to UMTS, NOT a wholly separate technology.
  9. #9  
    UMTS and HSDPA are the same thing. In overly simplified terms, UMTS is the technology where HSDPA is the compression upgrade to UMTS to obtain faster speeds. HSDPA doesn't exist without UMTS, but UMTS can be deployed without the upgrade to HSDPA.
    It's pretty much the same relation GRPS is to EDGE. GPRS is the technology, EDGE is the improvement.

    It doesn't really make sense for a carrier to not go stragith to HSDPA at this point.
  10. #10  
    Question, even if the 650/700 doesn't support UTMS or whatever. Wouldn't the device/user benifit from the network upadtes? In other words,would the data speeds increase?
  11. Minsc's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    UMTS and HSDPA are the same thing. In overly simplified terms, UMTS is the technology where HSDPA is the compression upgrade to UMTS to obtain faster speeds. HSDPA doesn't exist without UMTS, but UMTS can be deployed without the upgrade to HSDPA.
    It's pretty much the same relation GRPS is to EDGE. GPRS is the technology, EDGE is the improvement.

    It doesn't really make sense for a carrier to not go stragith to HSDPA at this point.
    Thanks, that's what I thought (though you explained it much better) but I've been out of the wireless loop for a bit and thought I missed something.

    .
  12. Minsc's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by smileyboy
    Question, even if the 650/700 doesn't support UTMS or whatever. Wouldn't the device/user benifit from the network upadtes? In other words,would the data speeds increase?
    I don't think so as they're entirely different technologies. UMTS is a CDMA based system and is in no way compatible with GSM. However, I suppose it's possible that GPRS/EDGE speeds could pick up a bit as people migrate to UMTS...?? (less load on the network)
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by smileyboy
    Question, even if the 650/700 doesn't support UTMS or whatever. Wouldn't the device/user benifit from the network upadtes? In other words,would the data speeds increase?
    Not really. Treo 650 GSM only supports EDGE class 10. it has a special radio/chip inside it. Even if you are on a UMTS/HSDPA network, you will not benefit with any speed increase. it will just drop you back to EDGE speeds since UMTS/HSDPA is backwards compatible with EDGE. The highest speeds you will get is whatever the max throughput the device can handle.
  14. TxDot's Avatar
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    #14  
    I recommend visting the 3G Americas web site for more information about these new technologies. They have a lot of information that will help clarify things.

    Minsc, UMTS is a GSM based technology. However the Treo 650 cannot make use of the technology since it requires a different radio.

    A few acronyms might also help out a bit...
    HSDPA - High Speed Downlink Packet Access
    UMTS - Universal Mobile Telecommunication System
    WCDMA - Wideband Code Division Multiple Access
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  15. Minsc's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    I recommend visting the 3G Americas web site for more information about these new technologies. They have a lot of information that will help clarify things.

    Minsc, UMTS is a GSM based technology. However the Treo 650 cannot make use of the technology since it requires a different radio.

    A few acronyms might also help out a bit...
    HSDPA - High Speed Downlink Packet Access
    UMTS - Universal Mobile Telecommunication System
    WCDMA - Wideband Code Division Multiple Access
    UMTS is a CDMA-based system in that the air interface is CDMA, not time-division like GSM is. (When I say CDMA, I'm talking about the technology, not the CDMA2K consortium - Qualcomm, Sprint, Verizon, etc) This is why it needs a different radio - totally different technology.
    Also, UMTS and WCDMA are the same thing.
  16. TxDot's Avatar
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    #16  
    I think the biggest advantage to the move to UMTS/HSDPA is summed up in this little snip from a story about ThinkPads having UMTS builtin.
    <snip>
    Because HSDPA/UMTS is the technology also used by wireless service providers in other parts of the world, such as Europe and Asia, ThinkPad users will have wireless access abroad in more than 90 countries where Cingular has data roaming agreements.
    </snip>
    I believe this means that the split between CDMA and GSM and non-GSM users in the US not being able to use their phones (and now laptops) in other countries will eventuially become a moot point and that is goodness...
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  17. #17  
    too bad it looks like wcdma wont work and carriers are apparently trying to move to cdma2k in europe

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=112645
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by lovedatreo
    too bad it looks like wcdma wont work and carriers are apparently trying to move to cdma2k in europe

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=112645
    Just want to point out that the article was written way back in 2002, and that 3G/UMTS/WCDMA has been successfully deployed in Europe for over an year now. And by that I mean technically successfully, not necessarily financial. And I don't really see Europe changes to CDMA2k system any time in the future. Nor would any existing GSM carriers, just like CDMA2k carriers not switching over the WCDMA.
  19. #19  
    How is WCDMA in europe differnent or the same as what Cingular is deploying here?
    Are they compatible. Are they different frequencies? Is this information posted on a web site somewhere?
    Thanks
    Edit: Whoops, went back and saw the URL for 3GAmericas. I'll check it out. Looks like the info migh be all there. Thanks again.
  20. #20  
    HSDPA3.6 was demonstrated live in Las vegas at CES in january...delivering 2 Mbps. As of march 1st, Cingular had 51 metro areas completed and they indicated because of the success in LV, they were skippng the HSDPA 1.8 rollout and moving directly to HSDPA 3.6 with full tower conversion completed by November 2006. To speed things up instead of hiring one or two contractors to do the upgrades, they hired six.
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