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wap.cingular vs isp.cingular?
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Old 04/05/2005, 09:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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i am on the unlimited data plan with cingular (39.99).

my connection is wap.cingular. is it true that there is another connection available called isp.cingular? what is the difference? what are the settings to connect to isp.cingular?

is one of these preferable to another? does 1 work with vpn and not the other?

thanks
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Old 04/14/2005, 02:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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some are able to use wap.cingular and have no problems with VPN. However, I think I read something about not being able to browse 10.x.x.x networks through the wap.cingular, which or course causes problems with many people using VPN. If you're not planning to utilize VPN, then I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm on MediaNet unlimited (24.99) and need to find out if they'll force me to the PDA Data plan if I ask to switch to isp.cingular.
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Old 04/14/2005, 03:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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media net=wap.cingular
pda plan=isp.cingular
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Old 04/14/2005, 09:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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so if i change the configuration on my Treo to isp.cingular, and it works (i didn't call Cingular, I just put the settings in myself), will it automatically change me to PDA plan?
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Old 04/16/2005, 02:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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From what I understand, the $40 PDA plan gives you unlimited access to both wap.cingular and isp.cingular.
MediaNet $25 plan only gives you unlimited access to wap.cingular.

Most likely if you change your settings to use isp.cingular, it simply won't work. If it does, then NO, you won't get automatically switched to the $45 PDA plan. Instead they'll charge you pay per use at $0.01 per KB ($10 per MB, very expensive) for every KB you download on isp.cingular.

I have the old $20 MediaWorks w/ unlimited data (can't get it anymore) which is basicaly identical to the $25 MediaNet plan and isp.cingular simply doesn't work for me. I could call them and ask them to add 'data connect pay per use' (aka isp.cingular) to my account and get charged per KB on isp.cingular and still have unlimited usage of wap.cingular.
But that would be just crazy, I'd be better off just upgrading to the PDA plan for unlimited usage of both for $20/month rather than $20 for 2MB via pay per use.
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Last edited by taylorh; 04/16/2005 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 04/16/2005, 08:29 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Alright, I switched it over for 2 days to isp.cingular as a "test". I'll check my monthly statement for this month when I get it, and see if I was charged pay per use. If not, then I may just leave it changed.
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Old 04/16/2005, 10:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsipe
so if i change the configuration on my Treo to isp.cingular, and it works (i didn't call Cingular, I just put the settings in myself), will it automatically change me to PDA plan?
No, if you don't have the PDA data plan (and proper provisioning) logins to isp.cingular will fail.
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Old 04/16/2005, 10:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erburns
i am on the unlimited data plan with cingular (39.99).

my connection is wap.cingular. is it true that there is another connection available called isp.cingular? what is the difference? what are the settings to connect to isp.cingular?
APN wap.cingular (login WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM) puts your Treo behind a NAT firewall and routes all traffic through a WAP gateway. This is supported with MediaNET and MediaWORKS plans.

APN isp.cingular (login ISP@CINGULARGPRS.COM) puts your Treo on a public (though not static) IP address and no WAP gateway. This is supported with a "PDA" or "data" plan -- *not* the same as any Media* package.

APN isp.cingular (login ISPDA@CINGULARGPRS.COM) is a "data accelerated" option, and works with the same plans as ISP@. It compresses some content (esp web traffic) for "enhanced" performance. Doesn't cost anything extra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erburns
is one of these preferable to another? does 1 work with vpn and not the other?
I've seen a wide variety of reports, but I find that isp.cingular is faster than wap.cingular, and I prefer knowing my smartphone isn't using a freakin' WAP gateway. From a truly functional perspective, though, the only applications that I've seen have a problem with wap.cingular are some VPN clients (Mergic is one that I use and doesn't work via WAP... but really this is more a function of what VPN protocols you use to connect, not so much the client itself).
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Old 04/16/2005, 02:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taroliw
No, if you don't have the PDA data plan (and proper provisioning) logins to isp.cingular will fail.
actually, I was able to login to isp.cingular.com with no issues, and I have the medianet unlimited plan.
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Old 04/16/2005, 05:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taroliw
I've seen a wide variety of reports, but I find that isp.cingular is faster than wap.cingular, and I prefer knowing my smartphone isn't using a freakin' WAP gateway. From a truly functional perspective, though, the only applications that I've seen have a problem with wap.cingular are some VPN clients (Mergic is one that I use and doesn't work via WAP... but really this is more a function of what VPN protocols you use to connect, not so much the client itself).
Is there a security problem with WAP gateway?
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Old 04/17/2005, 01:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Treo
Is there a security problem with WAP gateway?
No. The problem with VPN over the WAP gateway is due to the fact that the WAP gateway is behind a NAT router.
PPTP type VPN (what Mergic uses) will not work behind a NAT router. IPSect type VPN will (what Movian, Cisco, and man others use.)
To use PPTP type VPN you need a real IP address which is why it only works on the ISP gateway.

It's merely a limitation of PPTP VPN not working on NAT.
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Old 04/17/2005, 02:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taroliw
I've seen a wide variety of reports, but I find that isp.cingular is faster than wap.cingular, and I prefer knowing my smartphone isn't using a freakin' WAP gateway.
I hear you there. If performance was ever of paramount importance, I'd jump the PDA plan and use the ISP gateway. This would be especially I was to be using the Treo as a modem (aka DUN or teather) for a laptop frequently.
However, I myself simply want to get my email and the occasional web page, arguably not much more than I'd be doing on any standard cell phone. I think the money saved (about $30/month for me) is worth the small compromise in speed.

I still get about 110-180kbps download speeds. However, the WAP gateway is more likely to become congested than the ISP gateway.
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Old 04/17/2005, 03:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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So if I were to leave my laptop at home while traveling, but still need to answer lots of email on a regular basis, which one is really better for me? I also need to visit some websites on a regular basis. However, I think the data plan is another contract, I'd really like to avoid that.
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Old 04/17/2005, 01:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Treo
So if I were to leave my laptop at home while traveling, but still need to answer lots of email on a regular basis, which one is really better for me? I also need to visit some websites on a regular basis. However, I think the data plan is another contract, I'd really like to avoid that.
If you have only the WAP plan, you should be able to use the ISP/ISPDA configuration on a ker KB basis. Even if just for a test to compare relative performance, you can get an idea of how the pages you will frequently access behave on the Treo and decide whether it's worth it to you to make the plan change. As I noted earlier, I've seen some replies where people claim to get better performance on WAP -- though a little surprising to me. So, let your own observations be your guide... and just pay a little extra (per KB) to try it out, rather than lock yourself into a contract change.
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Old 04/17/2005, 04:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm on the PDA plan ($40) and I can only connect to WAP.CINGULAR. Using the ISP.CINGULAR apn and login results in a "connecting..." then "cancelling...".

I'd like to use the isp.cingular if it might be faster (no proxy)...
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Old 04/17/2005, 06:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Treo
So if I were to leave my laptop at home while traveling, but still need to answer lots of email on a regular basis, which one is really better for me? I also need to visit some websites on a regular basis. However, I think the data plan is another contract, I'd really like to avoid that.
Data plans do not have a contract. You can add, remove, and change data, SMS, and MMS packages as often as you like without getting a new contract or renewing your 2 year contract. They are add-on features to your voice plan and existing contract.
The only contract you have is for the voice plan.

So you can add Media Net the or the PDA plan for 1 day, 2 weeks, or 2 months and then remove it without breaking your contract.
For your own sanity, ask the Cingular customer service person if there is a contract on the data plan. They will tell you 'no' as long as they aren't mistaken.
There may be a one time charge for 'activation' when you add or change data plans, I haven't checked. But that would be just 1 time surcharge, nothing related to contracts. Having said that you may not want to change plans too often if you'll be paying a fee every time. They may also waive the fee (if there is one) if you ask them when changing from one data plan to a more expensive data plan because they like it when you do that.

So you could add the Media Net plan for a while and try it, then later call and change it to the PDA plan, or even simply get rid of the plan with no problem.

To answer your question, Lady Treo, I think the Media Net plan using the WAP gateway is going to be just fine for your usage. That's what a majority of Cingular Treo users use (even if they have the PDA plan) and it's just fine. I only recommend paying more to use the ISP gateway if you plan to use the treo as a modem (teather/DUN) a bunch.

When people say that ISP is faster than WAP, we're talking about a very small improvement in speed. It's more likely that what they're seeing is because ISP can handle more bandwidth than WAP and is therefore less likely to have congestion causing a bit slower speeds during peak time usage. And so far I don't notice hardly any peak time slowdown at all.

You should see speeds of 120-160kbps on both WAP and ISP most of the time.

But don't let me talk you or anyone out of the PDA plan. After all that's the one Cingular wants you go use with a Treo. I just don't want you to waste money on the service you probabally don't need.
It's merely a matter of prefence and what you're willing to pay.
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Last edited by taylorh; 04/17/2005 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 04/17/2005, 06:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sck18
I'm on the PDA plan ($40) and I can only connect to WAP.CINGULAR. Using the ISP.CINGULAR apn and login results in a "connecting..." then "cancelling...".

I'd like to use the isp.cingular if it might be faster (no proxy)...
You could call Cingular and ask them to give you unlimited data acccess to the isp.cingular APN with your PDA plan. I've noticed some people can, and some people can't connect to isp on the PDA plan. It might have something to do with how they set it up for you and even when (recently or a long time ago.)
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Old 04/21/2005, 09:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Is this isp.cingular change only made when using DUN over bluetooth or can you also change your Palm's Blazer browser to access via a different ISP setting? If so, where is that setting?
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Old 04/21/2005, 09:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I posted the settings here
http://discuss.treocentral.com/showt...AR1#post613304
But I'll post them again and answer the quesetion.
No, it's not just for DUN. The network profile you select in "prefs" > "Network" will be the one that all Treo applications (Blazer, 3rd party browsers, email, etc. etc.) will use. I believe this active network profile is also the one bluetooth DUN will use when it connects (I haven't used it in a while, so I don't remember.)

If you go in to Prefs > Network...
You should have 2 default entries:
Cingular GPRS
Cingular CSD

You should be using the "Cingular GPRS" setting. This setting is configured to use wap.cingular. So as you can see the default EDGE/GPRS network profile is the wap connection.

That setting has the following entries ("Cingular GPRS" profile):
Connection: GPRS
User Name: WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM
Password: CINGULAR1 (it'll say 'assigned')
APN: wap.cingular
Under Details: Fallback=NONE

To use the isp.cingular access point, you'll need to create a new network profile with the following settings.
I'd call it "Cingular ISP" but you can name it anything you like.
Settings are:
Connection: GPRS
User Name: ISP@CINGULARGPRS.COM -OR- ISPDA@CINGULARGPRS.COM
Password: CINGULAR1
APN: isp.cingular
(note ISPDA user name gives you enhanced compression, ISP user name is just normal without compression)

The easiest way to set up this new network profile is:
Go in to "Prefs" > "Network"
Select "Cingular GPRS" as your active network profile.
Select 'Menu' > 'Duplicate'
This will create a duplicate network profile called "Cingular GPRS Copy"
Edit the name to "Cingular ISP" (or anything you like.)
Edit the user name to "ISPDA@CINGULARGPRS.COM" from "WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM"
Leave the password alone (it's already set to CINGULAR1)
Edit the APN to 'isp.cingular' from 'wap.cingular'
Click 'details' and make sure the fallback is 'none' (or you can set it to 'Cingular GPRS' if you like.)
Now just tap "connect." If it works, it'll log on and you'll get the green arrows near the signal strength bars sowing you're on. If it doesn't work it'll say "Signing on" followed by "Canceling" then nothing, no connection.

One more time:
$25 MediaNet and $20 MediaWorks should onlye be able to use "Cingular GPRS" (wap.cingular). If you can use isp.cingular you're lucky.
$40 PDA plan can use wap.cingular or isp.cingular (Some people say they can use it, some say they can't. You'll have to give it a try.)
$80 Data Connect should use isp.cingular

Cingular CSD is "Circuit Switched Data." It's the old GSM data connection that actually places a phone call (using your minutes) and is basically ISDN over wireless. It has a limit of 9kbps (very very slow.)
If you can use it, you're lucky or grandfathered in. To add it is $3/month and you have to call Cingular and ask them to add "Data Access CSD" or "Wireless Internet (CSD)" or you can add it from your account management on Cingular's web site. It only works on Cingular's native network (won't work when roaming) and is otherwise not worth paying for.
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Last edited by taylorh; 04/21/2005 at 09:38 PM.
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