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  1.    #1  
    With everyone making comments on the forum about Edge speeds and whether Media Works package includes Edge or not I made the assumption that Cingular in NYC has Edge coverage but from what I have seen it does not.

    I added the Media Works package on my Edge capable V551 and ran tests via www.dslreports.com/mspeed (WAP Mode 5K) and I am lucky to get 7 kbit/sec. I went to a Cingular store and the agent verified my phone settings with another Cingular agent over the phone and was told that the phone settings are fine and that Edge will not be available until maybe the summer after the merger with AT&T is completed.

    Can anyone tell me if they are getting Edge with Cingular (Orange) in NYC?

    I am waiting for a backordered unlocked GSM Treo 650 from P1 and no Edge would really be a let-down.
  2. #2  
    Wow. Barf! Makes me even more glad I didn't switch to Stingular from TMo. Word is TMo is supposed to be rolling out edge throughout this year, starting in big cities like nyc

    Thanks for this info.
    TM
  3. #3  
    Wow, can other NYC users validate?
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by joesdeli
    With everyone making comments on the forum about Edge speeds and whether Media Works package includes Edge or not I made the assumption that Cingular in NYC has Edge coverage but from what I have seen it does not.

    I added the Media Works package on my Edge capable V551 and ran tests via www.dslreports.com/mspeed (WAP Mode 5K) and I am lucky to get 7 kbit/sec. I went to a Cingular store and the agent verified my phone settings with another Cingular agent over the phone and was told that the phone settings are fine and that Edge will not be available until maybe the summer after the merger with AT&T is completed.

    Can anyone tell me if they are getting Edge with Cingular (Orange) in NYC?

    I am waiting for a backordered unlocked GSM Treo 650 from P1 and no Edge would really be a let-down.
    What kind of SIM do you have? If it is not the 64K SIM, I would recommend you get one and have them set your home network to be the Blue network. Once you are on the ATTWS - now Cingular - network, you will get EDGE speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonymoody
    Wow. Barf! Makes me even more glad I didn't switch to Stingular from TMo. Word is TMo is supposed to be rolling out edge throughout this year, starting in big cities like nyc

    Thanks for this info.
    TM

    Ha, ha, the irony of your statement is that the reason the Cingular "orange" EDGE speeds in NYC suck is because all those users are on the T-Mobile network! Cingular did not have a real network in NYC, they were leasing access or what ever you want to call it on T-Mobile's network for their users. Now with the acquisition of ATTWS they have an EDGE network. It will just take a while to get everyone off the T-Mobile network and onto the Blue network. T-Mobile only has GPRS, and as stated they will be launching EDGE this year, but Cingular will be launching UMTS this year too... so looks like they are a little behind. Also it seems people are saying T-Mobile doesn't have the spectrum to deploy UMTS yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    Wow, can other NYC users validate?
    Read what I have said above. It is the real deal. Any other questions, let me know.
    Treo 650 GSM
  5.    #5  
    Thanks for your help.

    I have a 32K SIM, I got my phone/plan from an authorized dealer, not a Cingular store.

    Would you know if it matters which store I go to (authorized dealer I originally purchased from, Cingular Orange or Cingular Blue)? and would they charge me for this swap? Also would this change my service contract since I would be on the blue network?
    Last edited by joesdeli; 02/06/2005 at 09:51 PM.
  6. #6  
    joesdeli - I wish I could help more on that side of things, but I am not as knowledgable on the sales side of things. Also I should note that getting them to put you on the Blue network for your home network might not happen in the store. I have read people were able to get their SIM swapped at the Cingular store for no money at all (or I think some have reported very little like $4). In any case, via customer service, people have reported getting their network preference changed from Orange to Blue. Maybe if you told them you can't get coverage in an area you need to go, and you always drop calls, but Blue has good coverage... And no it would not change your contract, Cingular owns ATTWS now, so either way it is their network. In NYC "their old network" was really T-Mobile's and not theirs at all.

    I hope this helps some. If you need more info I'm happy to try to help.
    Treo 650 GSM
  7.    #7  
    So does EDGE not work with a 32K SIM? Could I just call customer service to switch my home network to the Blue network without the 64K SIM?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by joesdeli
    So does EDGE not work with a 32K SIM? Could I just call customer service to switch my home network to the Blue network without the 64K SIM?
    No, I don't think they can switch your home network to Blue with the 32K SIM. Go ahead and try though, I would love to know if they can. Like I said it is my understanding they can't, but I have not tried myself, so my understanding could be wrong. If they can do it for you all it took was a phone call you probably would have had to make after getting the 64K SIM anyway. The 64K SIM has nothing to do with EDGE, it is for them being able to change the network you phone chooses as it's home. Since you are in the NYC market only the Blue network has EDGE... so that is how to get there.
    Treo 650 GSM
  9. #9  
    HelperMonkey,
    What I find most interesting about joesdeli's experience is the *speed* (or lack thereof) he was getting. We all know C is leasing spectrum from TMo in NYC (just as TMo leases from C in LA, etc). I had no idea though that TMo was choking down the throughput like that though for C customers. I regularly get 'real' GPRS speeds in NYC (at least 30k and usually in the 40s).

    I wonder if TMo users roaming on C's network experience a similar choke down in speeds?

    It's good that the C customer has the ability to switch onto the ATT network to get better speeds, but I'm still really happy I stuck with TMo and ordered the unlocked 650. They'll be rolling out EDGE in NYC in the not too distant future apparently.

    I'll take great price and amazing service along with a small delay in timing over shoddy customer service and poor business practices (see: the "unlimited" mediaworks fiasco) any day

    TM
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonymoody
    HelperMonkey,
    What I find most interesting about joesdeli's experience is the *speed* (or lack thereof) he was getting. We all know C is leasing spectrum from TMo in NYC (just as TMo leases from C in LA, etc). I had no idea though that TMo was choking down the throughput like that though for C customers. I regularly get 'real' GPRS speeds in NYC (at least 30k and usually in the 40s).

    I wonder if TMo users roaming on C's network experience a similar choke down in speeds?

    It's good that the C customer has the ability to switch onto the ATT network to get better speeds, but I'm still really happy I stuck with TMo and ordered the unlocked 650. They'll be rolling out EDGE in NYC in the not too distant future apparently.

    I'll take great price and amazing service along with a small delay in timing over shoddy customer service and poor business practices (see: the "unlimited" mediaworks fiasco) any day

    TM
    it is my understanding that Cingular was not leasing spectrum from T-Mobile in NYC and other select markets, but actually using T-Mobile's network for Cingular customers. So maybe that gives you a better picture of what I was trying to say. Cingular does not even have their own NYC equipment or network, except for the network that came from the ATTWS purchase. It is not a choke on EDGE speeds, it is simply not even having EDGE to offer on the T-Mobile network their custoemrs were (and still are) using.
    Last edited by helpermonkey; 02/08/2005 at 01:50 PM.
    Treo 650 GSM
  11.    #11  
    Very Fustrating.

    So I first called Cingular customer support explaining the extremely poor speeds I am getting on my EDGE enabled v551 and asked if she could set my home perference to be on the Blue network and whether I needed a 64K SIM. very nice women but she was no help, she didn't think it was Orange verses Blue network issue so she setup a troubleshooting ticket with the technical support dept who was to call me back later.

    The technical support dept called me back later in the day and first checked if my hardware is capable for EDGE speeds, then checks the towers in my area and then goes off on how he can't really guarantee data speeds any where on the network. Although he never admitted which network (Blue or Orange) has EDGE he did tell me that he could not set up the Blue network as my home preference network and that he really could not do anything for me. I asked about a 64K SIM and he again said even if we used a 64K SIM there is no guarantee that he would be able to set the home network as the Blue network. He then went on to say that EDGE would provide 60-120K and that the regular GPRS without the network acceleration provides 30-40K. When I had told him I was getting 7k he thought it might be my phone.

    I then called the authorized dealer I purchased the phone from and explain the situation and he doesn't believe it's the phone since I can access the internet but just at lower speeds. So he is going to call technical support on my behave to see what he can find.

    I then went to a Cingular store in person and explained my issue and he starts looking up the phones capabilites, EDGE coverages maps and then calls technical support and we are on hold for almost half and hour until I gave up and left. He said he would call me back if he finds out anything. He also insisted that there is no difference between 64K & 32K SIM chips and also there is no difference between Blue and Orange networks.

    So I'm thinking maybe it's my phone but I tested my SIM chip in another Cingular non-EDGE phone (Siemens A56I) with the same poor results. Well my unlocked 650 will hopefully arrive within a week and then I'll check things out with my actual device and take it from there.


    Questions:

    Is the www.dslreports.com/mspeed (WAP Mode - 5K) test really reliable? maybe that's giving me bad results?!?!?

    Is anyone who is on the Cingular NYC Orange network getting EDGE speeds (60-120K)? or even GPRS speeds (30-40K)?
  12. #12  
    from what I've read around helper monkey is correct. If you have a 32k sim I'm pretty sure you are on the shared t-mobile/cingular network which doesn't have edge. I bet you if you go get a 64k sim you will then camp on the edge att network. People on this forum have confirmed this in the tri state area. Hopefully I will be able to this friday if i get my 650.
  13. #13  
    from what I've read around helper monkey is correct. If you have a 32k sim I'm pretty sure you are on the shared t-mobile/cingular network which doesn't have edge. I bet you if you go get a 64k sim you will then camp on the edge att network. People on this forum have confirmed this in the tri state area. Hopefully I will be able to this friday if i get my 650.
  14. #14  
    Man sorry to hear that, I wonder if the support people you talked to are even aware fo the network situation in NYC. I don't think the 650 is going to improve speeds though. I think you need to get off that slow T-Mobile network.
    Treo 650 GSM
  15. #15  
    Helpermonkey,
    I was not debating the technical aspect of how a Cingular customer gets service in NYC. Whether you call it leasing spectrum or using the network my question still stands:

    WHY was he getting such slow speeds? He should have gotten at LEAST what I regularly get with GPRS (30-50) in NYC using TMo. The fact that he wasn't makes me wonder if TMo is selectively choking down bandwidth to Cingular customers using the TMo network. I also wonder - if that's the case - if Cingular similarly chokes down GPRS speeds to TMo customers when they use the Cingular network.

    TM
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonymoody
    Helpermonkey,
    I was not debating the technical aspect of how a Cingular customer gets service in NYC. Whether you call it leasing spectrum or using the network my question still stands:

    WHY was he getting such slow speeds? He should have gotten at LEAST what I regularly get with GPRS (30-50) in NYC using TMo. The fact that he wasn't makes me wonder if TMo is selectively choking down bandwidth to Cingular customers using the TMo network. I also wonder - if that's the case - if Cingular similarly chokes down GPRS speeds to TMo customers when they use the Cingular network.

    TM
    If that is the case, I may have misunderstood you the first time. Ok, my responce to yuor question this time is - it could be many things that would have caused him to get those slow speeds. I don't know what market you are in, but if it is not NY, then you are really in different RF environments and on different T-Mobile networks run by different people. There are a lot of things on the netowrk end that can cause speeds like not having enough dedicated ro on demand data time slots on a site. Another could be lack of capacity at the switch end. Yet another could be a poorly implimented frequency plan such as keeping their data traffic on the BCCH radio (or other non-frequency hopping radio) with oo tight a frequency reuse plan. That would result in packets having to be resent to compensate for the poor RF environment. All the while voice could be fine due to frequency hopping. It's just some examples in any case.

    Your other question about choking data speeds for some users - or some variation there of. Well I have seen that question posed many times in many different way including people not being able to get EDGE access due to a data plan (people assume it won't be EDGE plan) even though the device and network are both EDGE capable. I have said this before and I have never seen anyone post any knowledge to the contrary - I don't think any of that is even possible. If it is possible, I don't think any carrier is doing it. But I don't know how it can be done within the GSM spec. and if someone else does - please post how I would like to know.

    Hope that was more helpful this time.
    Treo 650 GSM
  17. #17  
    Looks like you need to read more carefully again I stated I was in NYC.

    As to whether or not it is possible to selectively choke down speeds, obviously I can't say. But I can say with certainty that I've been getting 'normal' (i.e. 30-50) GPRS speeds, in NYC, with TMo, for years, with several different devices along the way.

    Either the original poster's V551 is broken, or something else is going on.

    TM
  18. #18  
    I see what you mean, sorry about not reading carefully enough... my fault.

    Anyway. Yes it is true something is strange, but still we don't know where he is exactly, and ih he has run testes from many different areas, a few locations, or all in the same exact spot only. I am not sure what class device that phone is, but surely the speads reported are too slow. I would run a longer test too. I do the 200K test myself, the smallest one give me an error from being too fast.

    I do have professional experience with GPRS and EDGE, and like I said I know of no way to choke the speeds - still it MAY be possible - I just don't have any idea how.
    Treo 650 GSM
  19. #19  
    Cool.

    TM
  20.    #20  
    I'm not putting too much faith into these WAP speed tests anymore.

    I originally was using www.dslreports.com/mpseed - WAP 5K test and getting @ 6 kbps. Now I'm using http://wapspeed.com and I'm getting speeds I would expect from GPRS averaging around the high 20's to 30's kbps. The results were all over the map from 6 kbps to over 40 kbps. One thing that is consistent is that these tests do not work well with my phones (A56I and V551), especially with the larger file tests.

    As helpermonkey has mentioned I'm probably locked to the Orange (t-mo) network and will not get EDGE speeds until the Orange and Blue networks are finally integrated (hopefully in a couple of months) or I am able to get a properly configured 64K SIM.

    I am curious if people will get consistent results on their phones from these sites because I certainly am not.
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