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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    That way the user doesn't have to struggle to get himself up and running.
    Getting up and running with a Treo consists of sticking in the SIM card and turning on the phone. What is there to struggle with, exactly?

    The potential problems (sync, etc) are all Handspring problems, not carrier problems.

    The Treo works the same way every other GSM phone works - stick in the card, it works like magic.
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by jchristopher
    Getting up and running with a Treo consists of sticking in the SIM card and turning on the phone. What is there to struggle with, exactly?
    While many early adopters liked tweaking their Treos, increasing revenues dramatically means main stream business customers will make up a growing percentage of the overall customer base. To woo' them successfully, Hand believes it needs to make setting up ones phone, much easier than it is now. The key is being able to customize the software for each service provider so that more information can be automatically programed and less information needs to be entered by the consumer. Hand needs to establish more and more partnerships with Service Providers so that in addition to sharing advertising expense, they can customize co branded cellphone to be exceptiionally easy to set up and operate. That is why they can't afford to **** Cingular off. Actually future customers will benefit, as the result of Hand not blaming Cingular for be responsible for the delays.
  3. #23  
    in the long term they can't afford to **** cingular off.

    however, the success of handspring as a company is so uncertain right now that they also need to be paying attention to the short term customer-related issues. everyone knows the old adage that it's cheaper to retain existing customers than to find new ones. well, hand has LONG been dependent on its fervent user base. that user base is now growing ever-more discontent, and is beginning to erode away.

    i used to be a big fan - but I think my treo 180 is likely my last handspring device. too many disappointments. not enough innovation. they've been sitting on their heels now for almost a year (the treo was actually first announced OVER a year ago, and they've made but marginal improvements since then).

    Originally posted by rvwink


    While many early adopters liked tweaking their Treos, increasing revenues dramatically means main stream business customers will make up a growing percentage of the overall customer base. To woo' them successfully, Hand believes it needs to make setting up ones phone, much easier than it is now. The key is being able to customize the software for each service provider so that more information can be automatically programed and less information needs to be entered by the consumer. Hand needs to establish more and more partnerships with Service Providers so that in addition to sharing advertising expense, they can customize co branded cellphone to be exceptiionally easy to set up and operate. That is why they can't afford to **** Cingular off. Actually future customers will benefit, as the result of Hand not blaming Cingular for be responsible for the delays.
  4.    #24  
    Originally posted by hyperenough
    in the long term they can't afford to **** cingular off.

    ...i used to be a big fan - but I think my treo 180 is likely my last handspring device...

    You pretty much nailed it with your comment. I used to be an evangelist for this product. I'd show the Treo off to every business and personal contact I met. On airplanes, in meetings, at social occasions. People were wowed. They wanted one. Who knows how many Treo's every early adopter helped Handspring sell, just by word of mouth.

    Then little by little they managed to wear me down to where today, nine or so months later, I could care less if I ever buy another Hanspring product again. Needless to say, I would never recommend the product to anyone. Stick with your Palm PDA and cell phone. Upgrade in 2003 to a voice/data device when the industry heavy weights come to market with their product offerings and carrier partnerships sorted out.

    Reading this board, it's obvious I'm not the only one feeling this apathetic towards Handspring these days.

    It is the height of incompetance to squander so much brand loyalty in such a short period of time. Somehow, they've managed.

    HRB
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by hyperenough
    that user base is now growing ever-more discontent, and is beginning to erode away.
    To me the logical question is what Hand could have done differently. Impatient users assume that Hand held back and didn't create the patch fast enough. I think that makes no sense because the lack of a patch was costing Hand huge revenues every month. How could Hand have gotten Cingular to shape up their network faster? Imo, they couldn't. I think pure and simple that Hand is losing you "because they aren't taking care of their customers" is code for they didn't give me what I wanted when I wanted it. It took longer to get the patch approved than anybody thought it would, but that doesn't mean that Hand could have done things differently. I also don't think that their talking to you differently wouldn't have changed anything. It might have quieted you down for a week or two. Then you would have said, dammit, stop the excuses, where is my gprs?

    If you judge Hand's performance by how fast they appear to get things done to you, it appears slow to you. But judge their performance by what others that are accomplishing in the same arena and their performance looks brilliant to me. Look at Sony and Kyocera struggling to release products long after the Treo was released. If Hand remains way ahead of the competition, in my mind, they must be doing something right. Finally, you say Hand hasn't improved things enough. You haven't tried it personally but my impression is that the Treo 300 is a huge improvement over the Treo 180. But most of Hand improvements are waiting for the introduction of their new model next year. They just need to time the cycles properly. Most of the problems you highlight revolve around patience. You want things faster gprs and more innovation now. (Your name is well chosen.) My guess is that when Hand releases their new generation and steps way out in the lead again, you are going to jump back in again, simply because realistic alternatives will not be there for you.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by rvwink

    How could Hand have gotten Cingular to shape up their network faster?
    Huh? Cingular's network is fine. They've offered GPRS for quite a while now. (Just not on the Treo).
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by jchristopher
    Huh? Cingular's network is fine. They've offered GPRS for quite a while now. (Just not on the Treo).
    Actually according to this article that is not exactly the case.
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021217/attu006_1.html
  8. #28  
    That article is 100% irrelevant. Had you actually read it at all even half-carefully you'd have realized that.

    Cingular offers different types of mobile service geographically. On the west coast and in select other areas, they offer GSM-based service.

    Everywhere else, they use CDMA just like verizon does.

    This article was about how they're eventually going to be using GSM *everywhere*.

    This has been the case for years, and has nothing to do with whether they support GPRS or not, since GPRS by definition is only supported in the areas where cingular's offerings are GSM-based.

    The Treo, then, is only offered by cingular in the existing GSM areas.

    Originally posted by rvwink


    Actually according to this article that is not exactly the case.
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021217/attu006_1.html
  9. #29  
    I agree. Cingular, in California, definitely has GPRS available and supports it on most of the phones they sell, EXCEPT the Treo.
    Also, T-Mobile definitely piggybacks off Cingular in California and they are supporting GPRS on the Treo.
    Recently, I went to My Wireless Window on Cingular and it had a link to configure it for the Treo. Of course, this still did not deal with the GPRS issue.
    CSR's at Handspring don't know why Cingular is holding up the treo GPRS.
    CSR's at Cingular don't know why Handspring isn't allowing Cingular to support it on the Treo.

    Catch 22???

    Jon Margolis
  10.    #30  
    Astounding that it is 12/19/02, and not a peep from Hawkins/Dubinsky or anyone else at HS about Cingular GPRS.

    HS has only two products right now, everything else is legacy. What in the world do you think these two are having the company spend all its time doing right now? Especially if they really only have two current products to support?

    I personally believe they must be working like mad to get the next generation Treo off the ground. They must realize that the competition will kill them in 2003 if they don't.

    FYI, Sony is now shipping the P800 in Europe, so US launch can't be far behind. Motorola, Kyocera, Samsung, HP voice/data handhelds in the pipeline are close too.

    This will be interesting to watch as it plays out.

    HRB
  11. #31  
    Disagree about the level of competition in the first quarter of Calendar 03. I don't think the 7135 has a competive price point. Interestingly, a price is not mentioned in the press release, and I read somewhere the anticipated price would be in the $600 to $700 range. I don't think the 7135 gets any traction at that price point. Also, just because the devices are so complicated, I bet there are bugs in the 7135.

    Concerning the P-800, I also think that price point is too high. More importantly, they have not announced any relationships for the P800. While they have announced a future product that Sprint will apparently handle, Sony has been silent about the p800. Hell, even Palm's crappy Tungsten W managed 3 solid gsm service providers. I think with their cash shortages, Sony may be wondering if they haven't missed their opportunity with all of the delays. Both devices missed the holdiay season and by the time they are finally out in quantity, both will be at risk of being buried by Hand's likely much improved next generation device.
  12.    #32  
    I think you have some good points. We'll see what happens. I think the competition will be intense. If not in the first quarter, then definately by the first half.

    I'm looking forward to it. Lot's of new toys to play with.

    HRB
  13. #33  
    Actually I think Hand's next generation OS 5 device "blows the doors" off the whole market. Everyone will then figure out that Handspring is the clear leader in the technology race to create the best smartphone. I don't think any other existing product will be able to match up with its features. The key to this whole deal is the weakness of product offerings from the rest of the Palm OS providers. Basically, Palm is in the dark ages, Sony defected because of Ericsson to Symbian, Kyocera shot itself in the foot, and Samsung hasn't distinguished itself yet. Who other than Hand is capable of leveraging the OS 5 platform anytime soon?

    I think this will also spur sales of the existing Treo line which I will proabably be available to all at about $300-$350. Just my guesses.
  14. #34  
    Actually, I don't think the price will kill the Kyrocera, but the fact that it is available (exclusivly?) through Alltell - not Verizon or Sprint. Up here in minnesota, Alltell is non-existant - Kyrocera needs a provider to push that device for it to succeed.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  15.    #35  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    Actually I think Hand's next generation OS 5 device "blows the doors" off the whole market...
    Are you speaking hypothetically about an upcoming OS 5 device, or do you know more?

    Tell us more about this upcoming OS 5 unit form HS.

    HRB
  16. #36  
    In a recent interview, Handspring announced that they were working on an OS 5 convergent phone.

    http://www.rcrnews.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?newsId=6384

    If you read the thread on this site about the Tungsten T

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...threadid=29089

    You note especially the great screen of that device and device's higher processing speed.

    I am entirely lacking in inside knowledge, but I have long thought that if Hand introduced an OS 5 unit, they win. OS5 establishes them as the undisputed technological leader and allows Hand instead of replacing the Treo platform, to run two different price points simultaneously as Intel did during the early days of pc introductions. The early adopters at Treo Central will be delighted with OS 5, and the increasing numbers of more mainstream users will enjoy their lower price point and enjoy dealing with the the leaders of the field. Is anyone going to pay attention to the 7135 if it is bracketed with superior technology for about the same price point, or similar technology for about $200 less?
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    In a recent interview, Handspring announced that they were working on an OS 5 convergent phone. http://www.rcrnews.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?newsId=6384
    Thanks for the News Link. One assumes that going to OS5 would include a jump to high-res. Just seems logical. Any news of that?
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by miradu
    Actually, I don't think the price will kill the Kyrocera, but the fact that it is available (exclusivly?) through Alltell - not Verizon or Sprint. Up here in minnesota, Alltell is non-existant - Kyrocera needs a provider to push that device for it to succeed.
    It looks like the new Kyocera will follow the same path as the Treo -- a slow rollout with disappointing sales because of carriers that drag their feet on certification while "experts" bash the company and call their product a failure. The Treo finally seems to be picking up steam in terms of sales now that most of Handspring's partners are on the same page. I'd look for Kyocera to not start selling well until mid-2003.
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by DarthRepublican

    The Treo finally seems to be picking up steam in terms of sales now that most of Handspring's partners are on the same page.
    Actually, I'd speculate that sales have not been good. Products that are selling briskly don't usually get deep discounts and DVD players thrown in for good measure.

    The real world seems to indicate that Treos have not been selling well at all. I think folks are spooked by the hardware failures and poor battery life, not to mention that you still can't get always on data in tech heavy California with the biggest GSM provider (Cingular).

    No one knows for sure, of course, but based on the evidence I'd be willing to bet that Treo sales are falling off rather than picking up steam.
  20.    #40  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    [url]http://www.rcrnews.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?newsId=6384
    Thanks for the link. Let's hope they hit a home run (magnesium case, hi res, sd, mp3, and of course....GPRS) if this is going to be their hi end model.

    HRB
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