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  1. efudd's Avatar
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    #41  
    just saw in another thread that radio shack is ditching verizon and replacing it with cingulair while still keeping sprint.

    Not too related but thought i'd update my above post about the rat shack.
  2. efudd's Avatar
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    #42  
    back on topic- serious question-

    how the hell can nextel have 24k towers when sprint and vzw have 20-21k yet from what i gather on the net- nextel service is towards the bottom as far as coverage. IS it becasue nextel phones cant roam on anyone else?
  3. #43  
    Very good question efudd....awaiting an answer. I'd assume your assumption is correct, but we all know what happens when we assume...
  4. efudd's Avatar
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    #44  
    while we're pondering - it makes me wonder even more- I believe ALL the nextel towers are in the 80-0 mhz band so in therory they provide better coverage then the sprint 1900mhz towers. So having more- nextel should be drubbing sprint and to a lessor degree verizon (who has some 800 and some 1900).

    I still cant figure out why cingulair/att sucks. Ignoring their data issues, aren't all the the att and cingulair towers now at least gsm? So in theory a gsm cingulair phone should kick spcs and vzw's **** too. (assuming they would have many more ocmbined towers and again many of them would be 800mhz since the cingulair network is based upon 2 regional bell operating compaines who would have been first in on cellular 800 and att's is largly based on mcgaw/cellular one/metro one which was the designated competitor in many of the original 800mhz cellular markets.

    some how I'm thinking there are tons more variables then the number of towers and even if they are 800 or 1900hhz. Perhaps base station equipment choices matter- I live in Flemington NJ which is on the deviding line between the NY and Philly service areas for sprint and vzw. My friend at lucnet is always trying to tell me that they have better equipent then moto; vzw uses mostly moto in their philly region and mostly lucnet in the nyc region so i'm on moto base stations if i drive south and lucnet if i drive north and i dont really see much differnce- so i dont know if that's his salesman-speak kicking in or what.

    One real world point for those comparing VZW to Sprint- earlier I said I basically regularly experienced 2 sprint deadspots out in the open and several sprint dead buildings. VZW does better in many but not all buildings. As far as out in the open, one dead spot on sprint was fixed on verizon but the other exists on both. So vzw was up 1. Well I found a dead spot on verizon that doesnt exist on sprint- so the are basically even on the road. Funny thing is- I am a consultant and drive alot and talk alot while driving so the fact that either only has 2 dead spots is a testiment to how good both of them cover the NY, NJ, Pa area. WHich leads me back to the question of why does sprint even need to add 14k nextel sites? I guess some of that will allow better coverage in buildings with the 800mhz, but maybe alot of it has to do with capacity to kick **** with EVDO? Just a guess.
  5.    #45  
    My understanding is that Nextel's iDen doesn't have a very good transmit radius so they require many more towers.

    On Radio Schack, Sprint extended the contract with Radio Sahck just recently. And apparently, Radio Schack will even be adding Sprint towers at some stores.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  6. efudd's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    My understanding is that Nextel's iDen doesn't have a very good transmit radius so they require many more towers.

    On Radio Schack, Sprint extended the contract with Radio Sahck just recently. And apparently, Radio Schack will even be adding Sprint towers at some stores.
    i dont understand how iden vs gsm vs cdma would mean anyting. A radio transmitting at x watts at y frequyncey goes so far - period. It doesnt matter how you package the data (for the most part- i guess if you did something that didnt have enough error correction you couldnt use signal at the fringe since you'd miss packets and couldnt get them back or something. But perhaps it does- so i'm curious why that would be- i'd love an explanation if someone has it.

    I dont know that putting cell towers on radio shacks is that big a deal at all. First off- every one i've every seen where either in 1 story strip malls or maybe 2-3 story enclosed malls- hardly wonderful real estate for a tower. Also I dont see radio shack bothering to negotiate that with their landlords without so serious mullah passing hands. I dont know much about real estate but i think most cell phone cites have long term leases some how I'm thinking they are mulitples of the average rat shack strip mall lease length. I dont see sprint bothering to put a cell site on a rat shack roof with nothing more then a 3 or 5 year lease. Would it be worth all for spcs to update the site infrastructure, go to the town to get permission, pay rat shack their cut, heft over the intallation expenses all for a 3 or 5 year lease- I dont think so. I'm sure there are some examples where it would be worth the effort but as a whole i dont see radio shacks as being some tower placement nirvana- why even bother when they can more then double their footprint just by adding cdma to the nextel towers- there will already be a tower, fiber, backup power, zoning approvals, etc- it's basically a truck roll and install new electronics without all the other headaches involved with siting a tower. I'd even think that any non-nextel new sites will be extremely few and far between for the next couple years- how many locations can their be that Sprint or Nextel doesnt already have coverage? Seriously sprint already has some pretty great coverage, after you overlay nextels, what would you really need to add?
  7.    #47  
    From what I recall, the method of communication makes a differenence. That is you don't need as much of a solid signal for CDMA as you do for GSM and iDen. Perhaps CDMA has better error correction so can have better success with a larger transmit radius. I don't recall the details but it's something along those lines.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  8. efudd's Avatar
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    #48  
    interesting.

    I didn't think it would make that much of a difference.

    I would have thought if one had better error correction the others would copy it- and I thoiught cdma was here in the US before gsm- so when they rolled out gsm they could have updated the EC alla CDMA , but I suppose it's not so simple...

    If CDMA has better range- then why in the world wouldn't everyone use it? DOes it cost that much more that the savings in number of cell cites gets negated?
  9. #49  
    Just a thought here (this is a great thread and I've not much to add at this point): do Nextel iDen sites require 2 radios? One for the 'cellular' calls and one for PTT? I think they operate on different frequencies...so maybe that is why they have more towers...?

    Also, part of the reason Verizon has to keep 800Mhz around is because nearly their entire 1XRTT network is at 800Mhz. From what little I understand, 800Mhz is better for power, range and penetration, but MUCH less efficient in terms of spectrum use - or at least the tools VZW is using to implement. I think they'd all be using 1.9Ghz if they could...but VZ simply doesn't have the spectrum, and putting up new towers is always a chore for any provider what with all the approvals required.

    Sprint has it easy: tons of available real estate with the Nextel merger, tons of available spectrum with the 1.9Ghz that Nextel was just granted to move their customers off the 800Mhz iDen service (which interferes with public safety stuff), and nearly 80% of the total available market for 2.5Ghz (WiMax, UMTS-TDD, EVDO Rev A or B or...?) They will be sitting in a VERY good position 3-5 years from now.
  10. #50  
    I also live in Flemington, NJ and have Sprint. I'm hoping that Sprint converts the Nextel towers as I am outside of coverage at home. I can pick up a VZW bar, but it's weak and inconsistent.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mari
    I have a new 650 with Verizon that I am going to sell and change my service to either Sprint or Cingular. I live in Orinda, CA, a hilly area outside of San Francisco and Verizon signal is very weak at my house. I get a lot of dropped calls and have to stand outside to get weak coverage.

    How do I determine who has better service in this area? Cingular's rollover plan is attractive but Sprint has a cheap data plan which is also attractive.

    Can anyone help me find out who has better coverage for this area?
    Thanks,
    Rob
    I had the same concerns when I left T-Mobile for the faster data allure of Sprint. The cool thing is that Sprint will offer your a no-obligation 14 day trial of their phones and services. You'll pay for the stuff you use for the 14 days, but if you don't like it, you can take it back and not be contractually obligated to them.

    At least, they had that agreement tow years ago when I called them. They sent me a small camera phone. I took it everywhere I could think of and called it from my Treo 270. It worked great. Switched to Sprint and been there ever since.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd
    If CDMA has better range- then why in the world wouldn't everyone use it? DOes it cost that much more that the savings in number of cell cites gets negated?

    Well, the bottom line is that the european governments mandated by law that all of their carriers use GSM. They don't even have analog, just went straight to GSM. They don't have the choice to try something else. The plus was that all of the carriers are compatiable with each other via roaming.

    So, the primary reason its in use in the USA is because EU visitors want to have coverage here. Not to mention, that t-mobile (vodaphone) is a german company and owns like half of cingular/att... so they have political reasons to keep using GSM.
  13. #53  
    GSM is also a variant of TDMA, which probably made it much easier for the US domestic carriers (Cingular, ATTWS, etc.) to do forklift upgrades to GSM stuff. The only downfall of this is that GSM devices don't allow for analog roaming, which was a feature of the TDMA services. Sprint and VZ still have a leg up in those remote areas where cell sites are still 800Mhz AMPS.
  14. #54  
    I tried Sprint, Cingular and Verizon networks all with a treo 650.

    Sprint had great rates and worked really good in the cities. they were iffy in buildings compared to the other two networks.

    Cingular worked really good around Texas and the midwest but it would not work in my house in the burbs of Sacramento and kept dropping calls. Data was a mess.

    I am now on Verizon I used them for years before and never had many issues. I have not dropped any calls yet, works really good in all the areas I have been. This week I have been to Sacramento, LA, San Bernardino, Phoenix, Los Alamos New Mexico and Denver no problems yet. Data works really good but I had a few issues in Flagstaff and some more remote locations where Cingular worked.

    Now whether or not it will work in your house is a crap shoot. Sprint and Cingular did not work in my house and verizon did, at my brothers house only Cingular worked decent... go figure.
  15. efudd's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by brutel1
    I also live in Flemington, NJ and have Sprint. I'm hoping that Sprint converts the Nextel towers as I am outside of coverage at home. I can pick up a VZW bar, but it's weak and inconsistent.
    where are you at?

    West of town? Seems that's a black whole. My partner leaves over that way and cant get sprint or verizon at his house.

    I'm east of 202/31 and get both just fine.
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahuna
    I am now on Verizon I used them for years before and never had many issues. I have not dropped any calls yet, works really good in all the areas I have been.

    ....
    Sprint and Cingular did not work in my house and verizon did, at my brothers house only Cingular worked decent... go figure.
    Conflictng info... Have never dropped calls with Verizon but Cingular only works decent at brothers' house?
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd
    where are you at?

    West of town? Seems that's a black whole. My partner leaves over that way and cant get sprint or verizon at his house.

    I'm east of 202/31 and get both just fine.
    I'm back past the hospital. I can get 1 VZW bar on a good day, or after the leaves fall. Sprint officially has me listed as 1 mile out of coverage. We've had workman here with Nextel phones that were talking from the basement, so I'm assuming they share the AT&T tower (I hope).
  18. efudd's Avatar
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    #58  
    good luck- sounds like maybe the merger will make your life easier.
  19. efudd's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    Conflictng info... Have never dropped calls with Verizon but Cingular only works decent at brothers' house?
    x-

    did you sell verizon stick short or something? You seem to be on a kick to find flaws in there system. People here are just sharing their experiences and opinions, that doesnt mean any one is wrong. To each his own. If one provider were better by far then the rest for everone then their wouldn't be 5 or 10 choices, everyone would just pick the one.

    In any event a dropped call is differnt from one that never gets placed and I assume that's what the OP was saying. IF he gets a call it doesn't drop, but like every network there are obviously places where there are holes and you just cant get service to even start a call.

    IF you take your sprint phone and make a call in Manhatten on the street, I'd think none of your calls would be dropped. No go down in the subway and try to make the call- you cant its a deadspot.

    Personally either way I'm annoyed so I wouldnt make distinctions but some do- and it doesnt mean they are wrong for doing it.
  20.    #60  
    ^OK, so I was a bit nitpicky. :-) Not seeking flaws, just attempting to validate claims, whichever carrier.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
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