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  1.    #1  
    I know many of you are very happy with your Verizon wireless. With the release of the Treo 650 today I was excited to bring this new phone to my small business. I am a legitamate business filed with the State of Illinois with a Federal Tax ID number. My business is 2 years old and has approximately $6 million in annual revenue. Yet, because my small business does not file with Dan & Broadstreet for credit (the vast majority of small business's do not as they use their own personal credit for the company), Verizon is telling me that I will have to put a $800 deposit down in order to create a business account.

    I was transferred a total of 5 times before they even got me to the Illinois call center and then spoke to a supervisor who told me there was nothing they can do. I was purchasing a 2000 minute plan for 2 lines so they were going to receive a lot of money. However, because of this poor service and rather assinine policies, they will no longer receive any business from me. I just contacted Packet8 to switch my company office phones away from Verizon. If I am, in Verizon's eye's, not a legit small business then I reckon they don't need my money either.

    Griz
  2. #2  
    Shoot when I first started my company Verizon was the only one that didn't require a personal guarantee and that was back when Verizon customer service was the worst of them.

    Perhaps you should go to a Verizon store and let a commisioned sales person help you out.

    I don't want to give biz advice but it only takes 5 minutes to get a DUNS number. I also bet that you already have one if you are doing the volume that you state maybe you should give them a call.
  3. #3  
    I was thinking the same thing. It just depends on what vendors you do business with. If they use D&B then they are most likely reporting your payment habits to them. It's just like any other credit reporting agency. If you don't have any vendors that use them, then you might not have a record with them.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by griz
    I know many of you are very happy with your Verizon wireless. With the release of the Treo 650 today I was excited to bring this new phone to my small business. I am a legitamate business filed with the State of Illinois with a Federal Tax ID number. My business is 2 years old and has approximately $6 million in annual revenue. Yet, because my small business does not file with Dan & Broadstreet for credit (the vast majority of small business's do not as they use their own personal credit for the company), Verizon is telling me that I will have to put a $800 deposit down in order to create a business account.

    I was transferred a total of 5 times before they even got me to the Illinois call center and then spoke to a supervisor who told me there was nothing they can do. I was purchasing a 2000 minute plan for 2 lines so they were going to receive a lot of money. However, because of this poor service and rather assinine policies, they will no longer receive any business from me. I just contacted Packet8 to switch my company office phones away from Verizon. If I am, in Verizon's eye's, not a legit small business then I reckon they don't need my money either.

    Griz
    $6 mill in revenue and you wont fork over $800 refundable deposit...yeah Verizon is the crazy one. And your right, they don't need your money. 2 lines at 2000 minutes is nothing for business accounts...in the end your screwing yourself when you have terrible reception and customers complain.

    Erik
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosiv122
    $6 mill in revenue and you wont fork over $800 refundable deposit...yeah Verizon is the crazy one. And your right, they don't need your money. 2 lines at 2000 minutes is nothing for business accounts...in the end your screwing yourself when you have terrible reception and customers complain.

    Erik
    I guess we now know who is NOT in business for themselves Eric. $6 million in revenue does not equate to $6 million in profits etc. It's not a question about affordability with the $800, it's simply principle. I am paying for the phone and for the service so their security deposit is to secure what? I have been with them for over 2 years so they clearly know my ability to pay is solid. It's just a bunch of crap and I won't play that game. We have 4 different phone providers here and I assure you they won't have this assinine requirement.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by griz
    I guess we now know who is NOT in business for themselves Eric. $6 million in revenue does not equate to $6 million in profits etc. It's not a question about affordability with the $800, it's simply principle. I am paying for the phone and for the service so their security deposit is to secure what? I have been with them for over 2 years so they clearly know my ability to pay is solid. It's just a bunch of crap and I won't play that game. We have 4 different phone providers here and I assure you they won't have this assinine requirement.
    I know you don't pull in $6 mill a year in profit...but your not some lemonade stand either...your company can afford the $800 deposit, pure and simple.

    Erik
  7. ehosey2's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by griz
    We have 4 different phone providers here and I assure you they won't have this assinine requirement.
    There is a TV commerical where the phrase " Business is beautiful with Sprint " is used. I bet they will appreciate your business.

    ------------------------
    Sprint Treo 650
    1.08 rocks !
  8. jstpa's Avatar
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    #8  
    I'm missing something here. Why would they know that you don't have $7 million in expenses?
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosiv122
    I know you don't pull in $6 mill a year in profit...but your not some lemonade stand either...your company can afford the $800 deposit, pure and simple.

    Erik

    And you MISSED the point yet again Eric. Whether I can afford the $800 is completely irrelevant. The point is "why should I have to put a $800 security deposit down." I am paying for the phone UPFRONT, I have made continual payments on my current Verizon service for over 2 years without a late payment thus proving my ability to pay and believe me, my office phone's are significantly more than the cell phone service will run. What is the security deposit securing? Nothing! That's the point.

    I called Sprint late yesterday afternoon and sure enough, they appreciate my business. No deposit, got the phone I wanted for $200 after discounts, plan package was virtually the same, and they now earned my business. I also contacted Packet8 about their virtual office and will be switching my office over to them since I have a dedicated T1. So, because Verizon decided to lack any business sense, they not only lost about cell phone package of $100 per month but also my office system which I am paying about $700 per month for. I realize in the scheme of things this is chump change to them but I guarantee you this word of mouth will cost them signicantly more than the $800 per month is.

    Griz
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by griz
    And you MISSED the point yet again Eric. Whether I can afford the $800 is completely irrelevant. The point is "why should I have to put a $800 security deposit down." I am paying for the phone UPFRONT, I have made continual payments on my current Verizon service for over 2 years without a late payment thus proving my ability to pay and believe me, my office phone's are significantly more than the cell phone service will run. What is the security deposit securing? Nothing! That's the point.
    Sorry, you missed my point again. The point is why should Verizon trust you? Just because you use their landlines doesn't mean anything to wireless...think of them as two seperate companies, because, they really are.

    Wow, paying for the phones up front...I am sure Verizon makes 100% off the phones A % goes to the salesman, and a large portion goes to PalmOne. So, with your upfront $600 purchase (2 @ $299) of which they may see $100, you want them to trust you with 2 2,000 min plans...makes a lot of sense.

    Look around, do rental car companies take a security deposit (even if its just a CC imprint), how about hotels? Leasing? Renting? All the same. You are getting an item or service and paying later...all these other companies can hold money, why shouldn't Verizon be able to? Even if you've paid for 10 years in a row without missing...who said your not going to start missing them now?

    What I find funny is that you think you shouldn't be subject to the same security precautions as the rest of the country. Sure, some people don't pay because they have a history with Verizon Wireless, or they are established through a trusted third-party, but the majority of customers still need to leave some deposit.

    I'd love to actually hear your conversations...

    Verizon wireless sucks.
    Why is that? Do they have bad signal?
    No, the signal is the best in the nation.
    Then are their prices too high?
    Yes, but that's not really the issue...see I am a business and I feel that I shouldn't pay $800 security because I've used Verizon landline before.
    Is the $800 refundable at the end of the contract?
    Sure, but that's not the point, I shouldn't have to pay it because I said so.
    So, in other words, your upset because Verizon doesn't fully trust you and instead of just doing what everyone else does you decide to sacrifice service and quality for your principles and a refundable $800.


    See how rediculous you sound?

    And please don't bring up your history of paying bills and such, we all know major companies that just went out of business and stuck plenty of companies with large bills...had some of those companies taken security deposits the loss would have been less.

    Erik
  11. #11  
    Grizz, go to a retail store the reason other carriers are granting you credit is because they are verifying your business credit somehow. If you want to see some outrageous deposits you should have seen ATT pre-merger, I call a $500 per line deposit and I had to buy the phone, then it couldn't exceed 4 lines all that with a perfect D&B and good cash flow. In a few years I'll bet that most carriers will require a personal guarantee for companies with less than 100 employees.

    If you've been in business more than 2 years and are grossing what you say you are there is no doubt you have a D&B file and there's something Verizon didn't like.


    I realize in the scheme of things this is chump change to them but I guarantee you this word of mouth will cost them signicantly more than the $800 per month is.
    Keep in mind that the members on this forum are wireless fanatics and most of us know the REAL deal so it's a waste of time to protest Verizon here.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by tifosiv122
    Sorry, you missed my point again. The point is why should Verizon trust you? Just because you use their landlines doesn't mean anything to wireless...think of them as two seperate companies, because, they really are.

    Wow, paying for the phones up front...I am sure Verizon makes 100% off the phones A % goes to the salesman, and a large portion goes to PalmOne. So, with your upfront $600 purchase (2 @ $299) of which they may see $100, you want them to trust you with 2 2,000 min plans...makes a lot of sense.

    Look around, do rental car companies take a security deposit (even if its just a CC imprint), how about hotels? Leasing? Renting? All the same. You are getting an item or service and paying later...all these other companies can hold money, why shouldn't Verizon be able to? Even if you've paid for 10 years in a row without missing...who said your not going to start missing them now?

    What I find funny is that you think you shouldn't be subject to the same security precautions as the rest of the country. Sure, some people don't pay because they have a history with Verizon Wireless, or they are established through a trusted third-party, but the majority of customers still need to leave some deposit.

    I'd love to actually hear your conversations...

    Verizon wireless sucks.
    Why is that? Do they have bad signal?
    No, the signal is the best in the nation.
    Then are their prices too high?
    Yes, but that's not really the issue...see I am a business and I feel that I shouldn't pay $800 security because I've used Verizon landline before.
    Is the $800 refundable at the end of the contract?
    Sure, but that's not the point, I shouldn't have to pay it because I said so.
    So, in other words, your upset because Verizon doesn't fully trust you and instead of just doing what everyone else does you decide to sacrifice service and quality for your principles and a refundable $800.


    See how rediculous you sound?

    And please don't bring up your history of paying bills and such, we all know major companies that just went out of business and stuck plenty of companies with large bills...had some of those companies taken security deposits the loss would have been less.

    Erik

    Too funny Eric. Your about as stimulating as talking to a brick wall. The point, yet again, is that Verizon is out NOTHING up front nor do they have any real risk in this venture. I am not going to sit here and go through your invalid points one by one. However, my point is still very clear. Sprint did not require any deposit from me, I received just as good of a deal as what Verizon offered, and in our area Sprint has just as good of coverage as Verizon.

    So, did I sacrifice quality because I dispute the $800. Nope, the only thing I ended up being out was the amount of time it took me to make a point three times to you.

    Griz
  13. #13  
    What I think Griz is really saying, Eric, is that this is no way to treat a loyal customer with a good payment history. To some degree, I can definitely see where he's coming from. However, if $800 is for BOTH 2000 minute lines, not PER line, it's not THAT bad. Business credit is different from personal credit. You can have great personal credit, but if your business credit can't be verified, you can't completely blame Verizon.

    Sprint definitely has more lenient credit requirements, that I'll agree with. But I hope Griz's business isn't in Chicago close to the lake. If it is, good luck with the reception. I've dropped and lost so many calls, it isn't even funny anymore! Verizon's network is more stable along that area, if not the whole city. I regret dropping them for Sprint.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. jstpa's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    What I think Griz is really saying, Eric, is that this is no way to treat a loyal customer with a good payment history.
    Loyal, eh? I think not.

    Though you are valiantly trying to divine his meaning, its not particularly clear. Unfortunately, though he has tried to "make a point three times to" poor Eric, he hasn't really told us much. We know he has a two year payment history with Verizon. We know he has a land line - and its really, really expensive. We know his business has $6 million in revenue, but we don't know anything about its expenses. Would you give unsecured credit to a company knowing its gross but not its net? I wouldn't. We don't know about his company's general credit history - or his own. We don't know whether he's giving a personal guaranty - I assume he's not. Actually, we don't even know whether he has a company or whether he's a sole proprietor. If he has a company, he confuses its business with himself - not a good idea if the company ever gets sued.

    One thing is clear. He says that the $800 is not securing anything. That's plainly wrong. It is securing timely payment on the account. If the bill goes unpaid, VZW will probably be entitled under its agreement to use the deposit to satisfy the unpaid bill. That is security - plain, pure and simple.

    Other than that, all we really have to go on is an emotional reaction to a perceived slight.

    What I suspect is happening is that he is trying to switch from personal credit to corporate credit (i.e., he's trying to get himself off the hook personally for the debt) and he's finding that it is not all that easy.
  15. #15  
    I still think it's just a case of bruised ego. He feels slighted because Verizon didn't give him a break because he's a known customer. JMO though, but that's the impression I get. I might have felt slighted too, I tend to take things personally too. But business credit is different than personal credit, and it sounds like Verizon couldn't verify it using their methods.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I still think it's just a case of bruised ego. He feels slighted because Verizon didn't give him a break because he's a known customer. JMO though, but that's the impression I get. I might have felt slighted too, I tend to take things personally too. But business credit is different than personal credit, and it sounds like Verizon couldn't verify it using their methods.
    I will concede that my ego was a bit bruised so that certainly adds to my disgust. But, since you guys asked let me explain my expenses. Approx $6 million in revenue of which 90% of that goes to hired consultants etc leaving approximately $600,000 in which to pay bills for my firm. My overhead is less than 20% of net revenue coming in. My firm is solid and has been since I created it.

    Now, with that being said, Verizon never ran my D&B score as they never asked for my tax id nor my business name. The rep simply asked if I filed to D&B and I informed him no. That was when he went into the $800 deposit conversation. I asked numerous times what this security deposit was for and he could not give me a solid reason. He did mention that in theory I could stiff them for a couple months worth of payments however he also confirmed that in reality Verizon is out almost nothing since cellular minutes is not a true cost to Verizon. So, that brings me back to my original question of what is my deposit securing. I could 100% understand if they were giving me a PBX system on loan and I needed to put a deposit down but that is clearly nto the case.

    I even offered up to the rep to use my own personal credit history to verify credit worthiness of which he would not have any part of. My credit is score is 760 and is better than 90% of the population. My credit encompasses not only my personal but also my business accounts as this is standard in the small business arena.

    So, with that being explained, yes my ego was bruised slightly however, and certainly more importantly, this is a poor business decision on Verizon's part. Sprint had no issues at all using my personal credit for a business account and were quite delightful to deal with. Now, with all of this said, I did speak to a Verizon dealership at the nearest Circuit City and he informed me that he could have easily set this up as a business account without the deposit. I guess it all comes down to who you speak with.

    Griz
  17. #17  
    Hey Griz,

    I would say check out Sprint if the coverage is good in your area. My company gets a 12% discount on our lines since we our members of Chamber of Commerce. And the unlimited data rate is a lot cheaper.
  18. #18  
    I think Griz said he signed up for Sprint. He definitely sounds like he's in the Chicago area. Coverage closer to the lake doesn't appear to be good. If he's in the suburbs, he may have better luck. Someone is the western suburbs said they have decent coverage.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #19  
    I know we don't know each other from Adam, and I can already tell you that on a personal level I have BEGUN to form a theory about you that would bias me toward you, but I'm going to put these things aside and tell you some things in the interest of hopefully adding some depth to your view of this subject. Some of the things I tell you MAY bias you toward me, as I tend to notice that anytime I bring up my occupation on these boards my stock seems to go down with certain people, but in the context of the discussion I feel its relevant. Here goes.
    I work for Radioshack. I have done so for seven years and I am very proud of my company. I run one of the largest stores in my division (the southeast United States) and I happen to have the distinguished pleasure of employing the NUMBER ONE WIRELESS salesman in the nation. In case you didn't know we have 5500 stores, 30,000 employees. This guy was NUMBER ONE!!!!! The only two companies we offer (besides pre-paid) are Sprint and Verizon. Sprint's the one we sell the majority of. They make it easy. Their credit has ALWAYS been easier to pass, they have the "coolest" phones well before everyone else. All in all, our ratio of Sprint to Verizon is about 75/25. Still, there are a few other things you should know.
    1. VZW is profitable. Always has been, always will be. If you doubt me look at their earnings reports.
    2. Sprint is NOT profitable. They had a $122 million dollar write off because of the exorbitant bad debt they'd accumulated as a result of their low credit standards, and people not paying their bill.
    3. Airtime DOES cost money. I can't believe someone as intelligent as you believes these companies are making huge profit margins on airtime. Yes, it is an intangible, but if you factor in all the costs associated with getting that "intangible" to market the margins are probably low enough to easily justify a security deposit.
    4. Landline VZ and VZW ARE two seperate companies. Period. Realize that if you want to make life easier. Those are facts, my friend.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I think Griz said he signed up for Sprint. He definitely sounds like he's in the Chicago area. Coverage closer to the lake doesn't appear to be good. If he's in the suburbs, he may have better luck. Someone is the western suburbs said they have decent coverage.
    By the lake where? I'm on Wacker and Franklin and get off the train at South Water and Michigan and always get a good signal. The only time I have issues is when I go underground to take Metra.
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