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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterFuhrman
    Also, I know that as great as EV-DO will be, you won't see real-world speeds of 1100 kbps initially.
    Well here's real world tests in six cities for EV-DO (click test results) and it showed EV-DO getting 1,100 peak, 900 average and 300 low.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterFuhrman
    All I know is that you can take your Cingular 650 against my Sprint 650 any day and I GUARANTEE that you won't download anything 2.75 times faster.
    Including or ignoring latency ? The fact remains, despite your OBSERVED time waiting, the EDGE is doing the job faster WHEN IT IS DOING THE JOB. Download speed is the speed it goes when it's doing something. Maybe this will make it clearer.

    Car 1 travels from point A to point B. To complete the course you gotta pick up a flag at point A, travel to Point B, get out of your car and plant Flag in ground. It takes off at 11:00 am and arrives 50 miles away at 12:00 noon. You egt outta the car and plant the flag. I think we will agree it was traveling at 50 mph.

    Car 2 sits in the parking lot for 15 minutes while you admire the flag and write down a description in your diary, takes off at 11:15 and arrives 50 miles away at 11:45, then you sit in the car for 15 minutes before getting out of the car, making notes in your diary again. You plant the flag at 12:00 noon. Car 2's speed, WHILE IT WAS TRAVELING, was 100 mph, IT DID TRAVEL twice as fast as the other car.

    Latency is an issue with EDGE. There is a pause between every 'send" and every "receive" period. The effect of latency however is high at very small file sizes and gets smaller and smaller as files get bigger. When you exchange small files via e-mail or web sites, OBSERVED speeds will be comparable. However download a large attatchment from an e-mail or use ftp to grab a file and EDGE has a distinct and easily observed advantage.

    Look at the data speed thread and where people post the file sizes and speeds, you see the number sbeing very slow at 5K and getting very fast at 600k.....I don't recall seeing any Sprint users posting any speeds in that thread approaching the higher speeds obtained by Cingular users in 600k test. Again , each test in that thread is being effected by distance to tower, bandwidth and other issues unique to that user but Cingular users significantly outpaced the Sprint users on that test.

    Use ftp client to do the d/l and speed will increase even more. Use the Treo via DUN with a laptop and start downlaoding 1 - 5 MB files and the difference is extreme.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by albertb
    Seems like real world speeds for Cingular and Sprint are the same for the most part from user posts here at Treocentral.
    That being said, I would rather get my phone 5 months earlier if the data speed is so similar..... Most users will not be downloading 8 meg files where a 20k burst difference in speed may make a noticeable difference.
    Data speed was not the reason I went with Cingular. For me it was the 50% greater battery life as I am away from a plug for long periods and the ability to pull the GSM cards and switch to another phone while engaged in "active outdoor activities". Locally it also has by far the best coverage whereas my Verizon requires me to drive a mile and a half to get a signal.

    Personally, I don't have a need to downlaod large files very frequently...to my Treo. There's nothing big that I would even wanna look at on my Treo. Once I upgrade my laptop however, the ability to send large files such as plan revisions for a plant on a construction site via the Treo's wire;less connection is big. These files range from 2 to 9 gigs in size and a 2.5 to 1 speed advantage is something that means a great deal to me UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS. The PC Mag tests used ftp connections to upload / download 1 and 5 MB files.

    Also, when looking at TC users speeds, not the diffirences on Cingular depending on what test they ran. The 600 k test screamed while the smaller ones get slower and slower as size decreases. The point I have been trying to get across is that while EDGE's speed may be signifcantly faster, users will observe no real difference once latency is factored in on regular text messaging and typical browsing. Use big files or use DUN to the laptop with an ftp client and there is a world of difference.
  3. Minsc's Avatar
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    #23  
    Jack, I understand where you're coming from but why would the file size matter? I mean, despite the latency issue I would assume the "clock" doesn't start running until the file actually starts getting downloaded. -Or are you saying that DURING the download, there are pauses/breaks which get magnified by having a larger latency?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc
    Jack, I understand where you're coming from but why would the file size matter? I mean, despite the latency issue I would assume the "clock" doesn't start running until the file actually starts getting downloaded. -Or are you saying that DURING the download, there are pauses/breaks which get magnified by having a larger latency?
    Latency occurs in between the sending / receiving of blocks of information. So it might go something like "Hey Minsc's Treo....I goinna send you a 32 k block is that OK with you"....."yeah ok, just wait a second...ok, no I am ready"...."and now I see this text has a link to an mage file can you send me that too".....yeah ok, wait a sec...looking for it, here it is, here it comes...."

    This type of communication has to take place between the sending of each block....if you send really big blocks, then it doesn't need to have that little chat very often.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonman
    Maybe a better question is why do so many Sprint customers fail to read the contract they agree to, then pi** and moan when they don't like it??
    They don't warn about dropped calls and bad reception in Chicago. Also that they don't care when someone finds your lost phone. I've posted before about what happened when I found someone's Sprint phone and called CS. Also that they like to harrass you over bills already paid!

    I will give them until the summer or fall, but after that if things don't get any better reception-wise, I'm moving. And I may move anyway if they call me one more time over something stupid!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. htmanning's Avatar
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    #26  
    Sprint has problems and so does Verizon. I have Sprint and my friend has Verizon. My bill is less, and I get more minutes. At the end of the day, that makes the difference for me. They say that Verizon has better coverage but I have had no problems in major cities around the country with Sprint so I'm staying put.

    -------------
    TreoBlast.com
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    They don't warn about dropped calls and bad reception in Chicago. Also that they don't care when someone finds your lost phone. I've posted before about what happened when I found someone's Sprint phone and called CS. Also that they like to harrass you over bills already paid!

    I will give them until the summer or fall, but after that if things don't get any better reception-wise, I'm moving. And I may move anyway if they call me one more time over something stupid!
    I'm in Chicago, too and have Sprint. I had Verizon for about a year back in 2000 and wasn't very impressed. While I can say I don't recall any dropped calls with VZW, there were more instances of having a weak or no signal with them than with SPCS. With Sprint I used to have a lot of dropped calls, but ever since they put up more towers that hasn't been an issue.

    My experience has been the success or failure of your service has just as much to do with the phone as it does with the service. Treos have pretty good signals on SPCS in Chicago, but my experience has been Sanyo phones are the best reception-wise while Treo is next closely followed by Samsung. Even saying that, though, the model of the phone makes a difference, too.

    I wonder if anyone in Chicago has or can test the signal strength of a VZW Treo 600/650 vs. a SPCS 600/650. That would probably be the best way to find out who has the best service. Just watch out for the small print in the contract. Some wireless companies will charge you for calls even when you don't answer, or will charge your minutes for messages left on your VM!
  8. #28  
    Ok since we have this discussion going on, let me tell you why I am still with Sprint. I had issues with Sprint like many others about billing. Also their phone support suck big time (an average). Here are few reasons I will stick with them:

    1. Second best wireless web connection: I do not care what technical evidence people bring about Cingular Edge is better than sprint PCS Vision, Sprint Vision will always get an Edge over Cingular Edge. I am not saying this as a theoritically. I am running radio station on Palm-Tunes for last hour at 128kbps on my treo650 without a hiccup. I want anyone with Cingular try it on their Treo650, at any location (with best signal) with cingular for an hour without a hiccup.

    2. I do not travel much outside USA, but got so many friends abroad. With Sprint I can SMS anyone (including people in GSM network in Asia and Europe) and recieve SMS for NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE. Also I get $10 bucks a month for ALL YOU CAN EAT WEB AND TEXT MESSEGES (now international SMS for free). I got challenge for both Tmobile and Cingular customers to even pay less than 10 cents per messege for international SMS, See I didnt think so. (cingular charge 20-25 cents extra for international SMS, Tmobile charge 10-15 cents per SMS). And that is additional to what they have to pay for sms within USA networks (so basically if you have tmobile text messege plan for $2.99 you can only send or recieve 300 SMS from anyone in USA, if you send any SMS to person outside USA you have to pay 15 cents extra. With Sprint its free to SMS anyone in the world, including GSM networks outside USA). Talk about GSM network to GSM network being cheaper :-).


    3. I accept Sprint Phone support sucks. BUT!!! their Email support Rocks. They even give you credit for any problem reported to them for no reasons. When I was pissed at phone support I emailed them as last resort. They not only credit all correction needed, but gave me 100 minutes extra for month plus they take off vision charges. Now I am not saying they beat Tmobile phone/cust service. But they beat all other cust service.

    4. There are issues with all networks in USA, Verizon may be an exception but never tried. But I think Sprint comes only 2nd (may be a tie with cingular) for coverage area. But service is exceptional and Anywhere I went, from Houston to Dallas, San Antonio, Lousiana, Milwaukee & Greenbay, NewYork (manhattan), Canada (almost 30 minutes from custom check point my cell phone worked), Atlanta Gerogia, California (LA, Ontario) and LasVegas (5 mins hiccups on highway while heading to LasVegas) without any issue. In Ohio border from Indiana I lost signal for 24 mins but all other trips I used Sprint while all my other friends asked me to call their friends (At that time one ATT and two Tmobile cust). Sprint might not be the best, but among the best.

    These are few main reasons I am staying with Sprint :-). Welcome to free and clear my friends :-)
    Last edited by sam2579; 05/11/2005 at 03:04 AM.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tone
    Just watch out for the small print in the contract. Some wireless companies will charge you for calls even when you don't answer, or will charge your minutes for messages left on your VM!
    Like SBC our phone company, LOL! I read my bill and see they charge for any call that comes in it looks like!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10. #30  
    Sam, I challenge Sprint to fall into the 21st century and offer more GSM phones and world service besides that one clunky phone they have! They were ahead of the game at one time, but not anymore. T-Mobile has overseas divisions and Cingular at least offers world plans(way too high though). Sprint is just too domestic in a global world!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #31  
    I would agree if I felt that GSM was a better technology than CDMA. Unfortunately, I don't think it is, and I wish the rest of the world (i.e. Europe) would get with the program and move to CDMA based services. You'll note that that is where Cingular is headed - both UMTS and HSDPA are variants of WCDMA...

    Sprint and Verizon got it right the first time - CDMA.
  12. #32  
    Which are the new phones that show this from Cingular? I read on here that T-Mobile will do UMTS.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Indicator
    I would agree if I felt that GSM was a better technology than CDMA. Unfortunately, I don't think it is, and I wish the rest of the world (i.e. Europe) would get with the program and move to CDMA based services. You'll note that that is where Cingular is headed - both UMTS and HSDPA are variants of WCDMA...

    Sprint and Verizon got it right the first time - CDMA.
    In some ways...I agree. I read somewhere (I think from a post from HobbesIsReal) that cdma may be going to the idea of having an electronic sim type card...something like a sim card in the phone that could be changed like when you get your phone provisioned...that would be nice...especially for travelling.)

    Here is a link to his post (its #5)'http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...&highlight=sim
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Sam, I challenge Sprint to fall into the 21st century and offer more GSM phones and world service besides that one clunky phone they have! They were ahead of the game at one time, but not anymore. T-Mobile has overseas divisions and Cingular at least offers world plans(way too high though). Sprint is just too domestic in a global world!
    Well unlike some, most people dont travel that much. They just need best wireless connection here in US with better coverage with less money. As per quality I have seen many friends coming from Europe used my phone and were impressed with quality. I mean how many times you have local FM station on and your GSM phone interrupted signal? Never happens on CDMA phone.

    Anyways, if you are comparing quality Sprint or CDMA got edge over GSM. GSM got only one thing in its favor, and that is ASIA and Europe. Take that away and GSM itself is nothing.

    And I still say, Sprint is better than Cingular or Tmobile in call quality, data network (speed and range) and more important thing, its cheaper.

    I can save money on call plan and data from sprint in few months and will be able to buy gsm phone (unlocked) which I can use it instead when I will travel to Europe :-7

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Just an FYI, I have 2 Treo650, one with sprint and other one is unlocked bought directly from p1, I tried cingular on it month ago and now I have tmobile on it.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    Like SBC our phone company, LOL! I read my bill and see they charge for any call that comes in it looks like!
    Sprint give me one minute free for each incoming call. So most of my voice mail minutes wont charge. But yes its tricky with other companies...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam2579
    Well unlike some, most people dont travel that much. They just need best wireless connection here in US with better coverage with less money. As per quality I have seen many friends coming from Europe used my phone and were impressed with quality. I mean how many times you have local FM station on and your GSM phone interrupted signal? Never happens on CDMA phone.

    Anyways, if you are comparing quality Sprint or CDMA got edge over GSM. GSM got only one thing in its favor, and that is ASIA and Europe. Take that away and GSM itself is nothing.

    And I still say, Sprint is better than Cingular or Tmobile in call quality, data network (speed and range) and more important thing, its cheaper.

    I can save money on call plan and data from sprint in few months and will be able to buy gsm phone (unlocked) which I can use it instead when I will travel to Europe :-7
    If absolutely forced to use CDMA(the format that FORCES you to use ONE phone as compared to GSM which allows you to CHANGE phones WITHOUT calling the carrier ), I'd have to go back to Verizon, even though they are always late getting out good phones.

    Yes, Sprint is cheaper and they remind you of how cheap they are when they call to tell you you owe $2.00 from last month's bill! OR they SMS to tell you they didn't get your bill payment when you paid in the corporate store already! OR they badger a guy to buy a new phone and get a new number when he loses his, even though someone called and tried to turn the phone in and got told "what do you expect us to do about it"! You see, much of it is all about how they interact with customers.

    NO other carrier has been like that, although the many complaints here about Cingular worry me. I might have been willing to put up with the having to move to a good spot before people can hear me and/or I can hear them(so much for that clear Sprint, THEY need to be doing the "can you hear me now") if they hadn't blew it with their bad CS, because yes they have good prices on the plans, and that's ALL they have going for them.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    If absolutely forced to use CDMA(the format that FORCES you to use ONE phone as compared to GSM which allows you to CHANGE phones WITHOUT calling the carrier ), I'd have to go back to Verizon, even though they are always late getting out good phones.

    Yes, Sprint is cheaper and they remind you of how cheap they are when they call to tell you you owe $2.00 from last month's bill! OR they SMS to tell you they didn't get your bill payment when you paid in the corporate store already! OR they badger a guy to buy a new phone and get a new number when he loses his, even though someone called and tried to turn the phone in and got told "what do you expect us to do about it"! You see, much of it is all about how they interact with customers.

    NO other carrier has been like that, although the many complaints here about Cingular worry me. I might have been willing to put up with the having to move to a good spot before people can hear me and/or I can hear them(so much for that clear Sprint, THEY need to be doing the "can you hear me now") if they hadn't blew it with their bad CS, because yes they have good prices on the plans, and that's ALL they have going for them.
    Lolzzzzz.

    Ok let me be clear first. I hate Sprint customer service on phone than any other, which I think none of them are any better than sprint (with exception to tmobile, who, in my opinion are best in business). Sprint email support is much much better than phone support. But again this is issue and I am not denying it. I had issues with them, with tmobile and even with cingular (never tried verizon). I will give 10/10 to tmobile, 3/10 to sprint phone support (i wish i can go lower :-)), 7/10 to sprint email support and 6/10 to cingular (that call ended up to cancel service, thank god).

    About changing phone without calling the carriar; I am not sure why would I want to change my phone so many times. I have 3 unlocked GSM phone, but I do not jiggle with my SIM into those phones. It is personal preference I guess. You are happy with GSM because of it, cool.

    As per coverage, I do not have any issues at all with sprint. I am not talking about just in Houston, but I travelled all over USA and never got any issue. Also last trip to Wisconsin changed my friends from tmobile to Sprint sue to better network there.

    I am not denying that there might be areas where Sprint would be evil, but I rarely heard anyone at all.

    I have Tmobile and in Houston coverage is good, but once out of houston, its dark. Cingular is better, but they can not get their act togather on data plan and I was not in mood to pay early cancellation fee, so bye bye Cingular.

    I think Tmobile is only decent company, comparing rates and service. But when it comes to coverage, it suck big time. I guess nothing is perfect in this world, well anything come closer is CDMA and then Sprint :-)
  18. #38  
    I understand that price and coverage would be the first consideration for most people, they just put me off, so cheaper isn't better in this case. If everyone else thinks the coverage is good, maybe I need another phone. But ANOTHER problem with Sprint, you get a new phone, they write up a new 2 year contract. Even Cingular doesn't do that, although you have to pay more for the phone, they don't hold you down. Verizon at least gives you the option of a 1 year. See, it's the little things about Sprint that bother me.

    With GSM, at least you can buy the phone(and you DON'T have to buy from the carrier) and don't have anyone hassle you to extend your agreement.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Treo
    I understand that price and coverage would be the first consideration for most people, they just put me off, so cheaper isn't better in this case. If everyone else thinks the coverage is good, maybe I need another phone. But ANOTHER problem with Sprint, you get a new phone, they write up a new 2 year contract. Even Cingular doesn't do that, although you have to pay more for the phone, they don't hold you down. Verizon at least gives you the option of a 1 year. See, it's the little things about Sprint that bother me.

    With GSM, at least you can buy the phone(and you DON'T have to buy from the carrier) and don't have anyone hassle you to extend your agreement.
    Sprint phones you can buy both ways. If you want to you can pay full price of the phone with no rebate and you dont have to even signup a contract. If you get rebate, depending on the rebate, you will have to sign up that specific agreement in order to get rebate for that phone. It is just up to you what you would like to have.

    As per buying phone, you can buy phone other than Sprint but yes there are limited stores even online (not anywhere near GSM phones).

    But for me it is peace of mind, just me i guess, that it would be harder (I heard it is not impossible) for anyone to use my CDMA phone, if stolen. Compare to GSM, anyone can just take out SIM and can easily use my phone while I burnout in frustration. Again its just me :-).

    Last thing I like about Sprint is Phone replacement and warranty program. I can rely on it for my phone replacement in case I loose it or if phone not working.

    In last I am one of the guy who like buffet style everything. You have so many things to choose from, if there is something you dont like, look at many things you do like. I like most of things from sprint. I am not pushing you to like Sprint, I hope I get more input from you about other companies so I can try them too :-).
  20. #40  
    Good point about phone theft! That's why I hate to show what I have to anyone out in the street! I suspect Cingular phones are locked though, although someone could probably hack them if they really wanted to, but not the average thief. However, in Europe that WOULD be a problem because many use an unlocked GSM over there!

    Sprint was my first choice for a long time, until they blew it with those other things. You know they never even told me I had those options NOT to get a contract, all I get is "upgrade phone, sign new 2 yr. contract". I've upgraded only once though, but inquired about a new phone again, same thing. The salesperson claimed every time you activate a new phone, you have to extend your contract. Maybe I was snowed by someone needing to make a commission?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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