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  1.    #1  
    If you wish to forward this thread, here's a smaller URL that won't get mangled in e-mails:
    http://tinyurl.com/5rady


    I'd like to confirm that many of us are experiencing the "chatty" Data Connection: a situation where we see "green bars" when our phones have no logical reason be sending data to the Internet.

    I propose we all try the following steps:

    1) Go to the Dialpad and select "Phone Preferences"; select "911 Only", to turn off the "Location ON" GPS system.

    2) Soft-Reset your phone (paperclip in the hole on the back, or via software), to clear out any programs that might be running.

    3) From the Home menu, select "Preferences" and choose "Network"

    4) Click "Connect"; your phone should ask you if it's ok to turn on Wireless Mode (since this was turned off by the reset); click "Yes"

    5) Once the Wireless Mode and Data Network connection process is done, you should have GREEN ARROWS above the antenna bars. Wait until they turn GRAY and note the time.

    6) Wait until the arrows turn GREEN again, and note the time.

    On my phone, it took about 4 minutes for me to get the green arrows again. But then it was just another 45 seconds after they went gray before I got them a second time, and another 65 seconds before I got them a third time.

    For fun, call your Treo while the arrows are green and enjoy your voicemail greeting!


    Post your results!!
    Last edited by rydot; 08/26/2004 at 03:40 PM.
  2. EWT
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    #2  
    Same here. I wondered why my phone was rolling over to voicemail for no apparent reason. That's a very annoying "feature."
  3. frank33v's Avatar
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    #3  
    I can confirm the exact same thing. I tried the processs and at first I couldn't keep up with the green/gray transistions and realized my Verichat was set to always on.

    After disabling and resetting again. I went a couple of iterations with 10-14s green followed by 50s or so on grey. After about three cycles of this though it's now every 4-5 seconds alternating green and then grey.

    Who's got a packet sniffer to see what's going on

    And yes when green my calls go to voice mail.

    I'm currently have a Tmobile and VZ Treo. Thought I'ld try the test on Tmobile but no go as the indicator does not go green to gray. Although every time I tried to call my phone I got through.....

    This really is a showstopper for me an CDMA. I can't have my work calls going to voicemail all the time. It's to bad because I was really enjoying the faster browser speeds....
  4. #4  
    I use Battery Doctor to 'Disconnect Data Radio" On Power Off - this has decreased data chattiness dramatically for me.

    (only other option is to get an overpriced VZW Data plan for $25-45!)
  5. Minsc's Avatar
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    #5  
    As a Sprint Treo user, I will do some testing myself tomorrow - although I don't think the Sprint Treo's are nearly as "chatty" as the VZW Treos.

    I wonder if signal strength may be a factor here as well... Meaning, if you're in a lousy coverage area does the connection go active periodically to try and hold on to the connection?

    Rather than a packet sniffer, I wonder if a developer with the right debugging tools could monitor an idle connection and see what apps (or the OS?) are calling the data session?
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by fventura
    I'm currently have a Tmobile and VZ Treo. Thought I'ld try the test on Tmobile but no go as the indicator does not go green to gray. Although every time I tried to call my phone I got through.....
    Yes, I also used to have a GSM/GPRS (Cingular) Treo. This is why I noticed this as "abnormal" behavior (especially since I don't recall seeing any posts like this from the Sprint Camp). It makes the data usage *very* different than that of the other phones since, for practical reasons, you really can't keep your Data Network connection "always on" as the Verizon Reps like to describe.
  7. #7  
    yes this is a pretty big concern. I've tried anything to stop this. but it seems that I haven't actually "received" a phone call since I got this thing. A dealbreaker for sure. wasn't the WSUP sw update supposed to help this? VZW can't let this happen. All that "testing" should have been enough to keep this from happening.
  8. Minsc's Avatar
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    #8  
    For what it's worth, I did some testing today on my Sprint Treo. After a fresh soft-reset I manually connected to Vision (data service) from the system < preferences menu. I then basically stared at the screen for a 6 minute interval to see if the arrows went green. They did not. Not once during that 6 minutes did they ever go active.
    For fun, I tried the same test over again except this time I fired-up Chatter. Even with Chatter running in the background, the arrows never went green during the 6 minute test. (obviously if I didn't have any emails during those 6 minutes or Chatter would have activated the session)
    So I guess this proves that it's not a CDMA thing.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by drrjv
    only other option is to get an overpriced VZW Data plan for $25-45!
    I do have the "overpriced data plan", and it doesn't seem to make a difference as far as the amount of "chattyness". (only difference, I suppose, is that I don't get billed every time Verzion and my Treo want to whisper sweet nothings to each other)
  10. #10  
    i just spoke to VZ data tech guy, who seemed quite knowledgable. He tells me that if I use WS with Exchange and the PC director, I am going to get more green arrows and thus, calls to VM. He stressed that if I am a "very busy" person with a lot of changes, then it would likely be more. I told him that I am not THAT busy and there are a lot of tiimes teh arrows turn green when nothing at all is exchanged. He recommended to forward my exchange email to a POP and set up the pop retrieval from the web site. I did and it the message retrieval seems much less reliable, AND the arrows don't appear to have stopped.

    He did tell me that I was the FIRST person he heard with this problem, and suggested it may be a transceiver issue and to consider returning the phone for a replacement ( with no promise it'll be any different at all.

    I don't necesserily want 100% voice availability or anything, all i am asking is for a reasonable amount of data traffic considering the activity. This problem essentially takes away any advantage to having the great VZW network, because in the end, as many calls are lost as Sprint with their network.
  11. frank33v's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc
    For what it's worth, I did some testing today on my Sprint Treo. After a fresh soft-reset I manually connected to Vision (data service) from the system < preferences menu. I then basically stared at the screen for a 6 minute interval to see if the arrows went green. They did not. Not once during that 6 minutes did they ever go active.
    For fun, I tried the same test over again except this time I fired-up Chatter. Even with Chatter running in the background, the arrows never went green during the 6 minute test. (obviously if I didn't have any emails during those 6 minutes or Chatter would have activated the session)
    So I guess this proves that it's not a CDMA thing.
    So looks like this is a VZ thing. I suspect it may be the wireless sync so may try deleteing it to see if it helps.

    Unfortunately I get no Sprint coverage in my home..

    So it's starting to look like if I want the speed of CDMA I'm going to have to rely on these utilities that shut down the data connection when not in use or only use "well behaved" apps that shut it down when they are done. (ie: No Verichat always on). That is if I want to get phone calls Kind of defeats the purpose of why I wanted a Treo, but I hate to give up the CDMA speeds.....
  12. #12  
    Please note that resetting does not make sure no programs are running. You have to do a warm reset to accomplish that. For that you must hold the up key while soft resetting. That will prevent all applications from loading. It may, too, keep you from accessing the network at all.
  13. frank33v's Avatar
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    #13  
    OK, I did a hard reset on my Treo and during the setup unchecked the option for using network time.
    I also removed my Treo device from the WS account page. (maybe I should have also removed the whole account)

    Followed the rest of the steps outlined here and the same "chattiness" continues. I called VZ to ask about it and was told this was as designed. The data connection was supposedy modelled after their bllackberry data and meant to be always on. The tech described the traffic as what I would call keepalives to maintain the data connection. He said I should not expect to be able to receive calls unless I planned on disconnecting when done with data. I don't know if he really knew what he was talking about, but what he said matches my experiences with the VZ Treo.
  14. #14  
    I have found (after installing and uninstalling 3 times) the only way to stop the "chatter" is to remove the wireless sync and intellsync mail, and install the connection manager app to disconnect after a short idle time. Even then it seems that the phone will connect with Verizon network a couple of times after a web session or email send/receive before settleing down. As soon as I added WS, even if I have no pushes, the arrows turn green or the "connecting to network" comes on periodically all the time and I'm talking less than a minute to 2 minutes between connections. I had my phone on all day without chatter and by battery only went down two clicks(you can hardly see them). I think I'll wait a little while before trying WS again until they get this straitened out.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by vztreosandiego
    the only way to stop the "chatter" is to remove the wireless sync and intellsync mail, and install the connection manager app to disconnect after a short idle time.
    Removing software that initiates a Data Connection will keep your phone from connecting to the Data Network automatically, and connection management software can automatically disconnect your Data Connection for you when you quit a program that uses it, BUT... none of that really solves the problem.

    What everyone's responses are indicating is that, for the duration of time our Data Connection is available, regardless of whether or not we're actively passing packets from an application, there's a high likelihood that our phones are blocking incoming calls, as they "chat" with Verizon's network.

    GPRS doesn't work this way (voice calls are only blocked while data packets are being transferred), and it doesn't appear that Sprint CDMA users experience this inconvenience either-- after a short "timeout" delay, it appears that the Sprint Data Connection goes "idle" and STAYS "idle" until an application makes a network request.

    It appears that the Verizon phones, by contrast, keep toggling between "idle" and "active" on the Data Connection, even if we haven't launched any Data-driven software!

    The above quoted workarounds are good-- they "work around" the issue --but the result is that we do not get the "Always-On Internet" that was promised by the Verizon literature. And if we don't use the workarounds, our "Always-On Internet" results in an "Always-Busy" voice connection!
  16. #16  
    Here's a question for folks. On my VZ Treo there are 3 indicators for data connection or lack thereof.
    1.) Green arrows
    2.) Grey arrows
    3.) Blank (no arrows)

    What is the difference between grey arrows and blank (no arrows)?
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by illustreous
    Here's a question for folks. On my VZ Treo there are 3 indicators for data connection or lack thereof.
    1.) Green arrows
    2.) Grey arrows
    3.) Blank (no arrows)

    What is the difference between grey arrows and blank (no arrows)?
    For our CDMA (Verizon and Sprint) phones:

    Blank = No Data Connection Active - You can receive Voice calls (if you have signal, of course!)

    Grey arrows = Data Connection Idle - Your phone is connected to the Data Network, but is not sending any data. You can receive Voice calls.

    Green arrows = Data Connection Active - Your phone is connected and is sending data with the Data Network. You can NOT receive Voice calls.
  18.    #18  
    I just got off the phone with Verizon's "Mobile Office" department. After a lengthy conversation (including my referring the representative to this thread), they concluded that "this is how the phone works on our network." I explained to them that novice users (people who don't know about the treocentrals of the world) are going to have issues with receiving calls, because the phone doesn't "auto disconnect" (since it's supposed to fall into an "idle" state), and he seemed to understand, but said to me that there wasn't anything he could do about it.

    I recommend that everyone call Verizon and report this issue, since the person I spoke with said that he'd never heard of this problem before. The more noise we make, perhaps the more likely Verizon will be to do something about it, since it's clear (to me anyway) that the Treo isn't supposed to work this way!
  19. frank33v's Avatar
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    #19  
    I am returning mine tomorrow. I thought about the workarounds and don't want to give up the "always on data".

    May try Sprint. Does theVZ roaming option include data?
  20. #20  
    I just got my (company-mandated) VZW 600, after having used a Sprint one since last October, and I haven't noticed a tremendously longer amount of data connect. I've received and placed tons of calls, with no real difference from the Sprint one. I'll say, though, that the Sprint one would also send calls to voice mail when data was active, as any CDMA device will. So, hmm - I don't get all the hubbub, bub.
    I will also admit that I don't yet have Wireless Sync installed, so maybe that might change my opinion, but I've paid pretty close attention to the green/grey arrow status (after reading these forums before I got the device, and fearing the worst, I've been staring at the Treo screen all day), and they really seem to work just like my Sprint one did. Green during active data session, going grey after a bit, and staying grey (as best I can tell). I'll keep an eye on it and report back.
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