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  1.    #1  
    Edit:

    Before and After graphs may be off. Sprint HAS cut off sprint GPS in roaming areas though, so heads up.


    Also Data roaming is limited to 1x. (No EVDO 4 U)

    Sprint Community: Voice and 3G coverage being drastically...

    Making me wonder what I should do. I have coverage but I'm in Atlanta (better have it) and will be moving soon. Bye bye sprint?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by IcerC; 04/25/2011 at 05:23 PM.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  2. #2  
    If this is true, we will have a duopoly of full coverage carriers soon, if the AT&T merger goes through. Very bad. Very, very bad.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. rkguy's Avatar
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    #3  
    Prepare for wall of text.
    Man, I want that Palm Pre3 out now. mixed CDMA and GSM allows for better roaming for alltell and would allow people on, say, Sprint, to get roaming agreements with at&t in addition to VZW, although..yes, it's only 1 phone of their whole lot>

    WALL:
    OK, found more bits and pieces of info that goes a long way to explaining the recent causes of the problem, but not the the reasoning - or lack thereof - that lead to it.


    Let's start here, when Sprint once again chose to renew the full data and voice reciprocal agreement between them and Alltel. This agreement was for full reciprocity - Sprint customers using Alltel networks and Alltel customers using Sprint networks as if they were "native," instead of building out duplicate networks.


    This contract was signed between Sprint and Alltel to be effective 01JUL2006 through 01JUL 2016.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OVERLAND PARK, Kan. — 05/09/2006


    Sprint (NYSE: S) today announced a renewal and expansion of a reciprocal nationwide roaming agreement with Alltel that enhances customer access to each other's wireless networks. The new 10-year agreement is effective July 1, 2006, and encompasses CDMA voice, data and EV-DO high-speed mobile data services.


    "The new agreement expands our current voice and data roaming relationship while providing customers greater access to services in more places," said Len Lauer, chief operating officer for Sprint. "Our technology alignment ensures an improved seamless roaming experience for text messaging, call/messaging notification and mobile broadband services."


    More: Sprint Newsroom | Sprint Expands Nationwide Roaming Agreement with Alltel


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    With Verizon's purchase of Alltel in 2008 (finalized, 2009) Verizon was required by the federal government to continue the roaming agreements on the Alltel network they were acquiring for only four years...



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The FCC’s approval of the merger is contingent on the new Verizon guaranteeing that both Verizon’s and Alltel’s current roaming agreements will remain in place for at least four years. The devil is in the details, and the exact terms of these contingencies won’t be fully understood until the final ruling is examined. Some will ask that while four years does provide some stability, what happens in year five?


    More: Verizon-Alltel Merger Provides Roaming Guarantees | Telecompetitor


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Obviously, we are approaching year five...


    However, an additional federal requirement was for Verizon to sell off assets in areas where they already had their own network in place - and that included a huge list of areas including Montana, North and South Dakotas, etc. The buyer of those divested areas, in June of 2010, turned out to be AT&T, and as of earlier this year, AT&T has completed the conversion of those assets to GSM service, incompatible with CDMA devices such as those used by Sprint customers...


    Here's Verizon's take on that: Verizon Wireless Completes Purchase Of Alltel; Creates Nation’s Largest Wireless Carrier


    ...and here is a map showing the end result of who got what of the divested assets: Cellular Maps.com-Alltel areas being sold to Verizon, ATN and AT&T


    This is in large part why Sprint was so intense in it's recent lobbying of the FCC to require full data roaming at reasonable rates.


    Sprint's prior agreements with Alltel were mutually beneficial and fully reciprocal. Sprints agreements with Verizon, however, are one-way-only with Sprint having to pay exorbitant fees to Verizon for 1xRTT data roaming by it's customers on Verizon's network, and not having EVDO roaming allowed. (Verizon does not roam it's customers to Sprint at all, I understand.)


    Thankfully, the FCC has just ruled that full data roaming at "reasonable" negotiated rates must be offered, BUT Verizon is violently opposed to and is likely to take to court. (Likely result: The order being considerably delayed, and the smaller carriers being so damaged while waiting that Verizon can easily buy them up.)



    In any case, we, the customers, are left out in the cold once again while the suits in the corner offices and their lawyers fight their pitched battles, much more worried about making money than they are about their customers.


    Tom


    P.S. Just as an aside, those former Alltel customers who are now magically AT&T customers are also getting the short end of the stick when they travel away from home. Most of "Rural America" is CDMA service, not GSM service such as AT&T has. Formerly Alltel customers were able to travel much of the rural landscape being handed off from one small rural co-op to another for continuous service. Now, since they are AT&T GSM based customers, as soon as they are out of their home area they have NO service, since for the most part the only rural service available is CDMA. Here is one small company's take on that: Upcoming Cellular Changes


    AT&T has also admitted that it's ex-Alltel customers will not get service in as wide an area s they did before becoming AT&T customers and being forced onto new phones: AT&T responds to customer concerns about service in Montana | KTVQ.com | Q2 | Billings, Montana

    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  4. #4  
    I'm pretty sure the "before" map is incorrect. Engadget did an article about this in january and they did lose coverage, but no to the extent that its being portrayed in those images.

    Heres a link Sprint losing on-network coverage in parts of Montana, North Dakota, and Wyoming -- Engadget Mobile
  5. rkguy's Avatar
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    #5  
    I posted to the sprint facebook wall.

    Hopefully they will say something
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by KJBlauw View Post
    I'm pretty sure the "before" map is incorrect. Engadget did an article about this in january and they did lose coverage, but no to the extent that its being portrayed in those images.

    Heres a link Sprint losing on-network coverage in parts of Montana, North Dakota, and Wyoming -- Engadget Mobile
    You are right. That was a map from around '06
    here's a data coverage map:
    Tech Mobile Sprint Coverage

    sad to see how it's just getting worse and worse.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  7. #7  
    Slow down there fellas. First off, I'm pretty sure Sprint's map has never been that full of "green." After a Google search, the only place I could find this particular map is on community.sprint.com and the site that IcerC mentioned. They are both 8-bit 256-color GIFs. Very easy to manipulate.

    Secondly, the green maps are for voice coverage, not data. And with Sprint having free roaming, as long as you are not in the white, you are good for calls. If you want to see where you will get 3G data and 3G data roaming, you need to be looking at the orange maps.

    Here is their current map:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...nt04252011.jpg

    Here is their map from 2009:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ge-map2009.png

    Dark orange = Sprint 3G data, light orange = slower Sprint data
    Dark gray = 3G roaming, light gray = slower data roaming.

    So they did lose some 3G roaming agreements in many areas, apparently--primarily the plains states--but it doesn't look like they've lost any of their own network coverage, nor have they left anyone out in the dark. In fact in states like Texas, Louisiana and Minnesota, you can see that they have expanded their own 3G network coverage significantly.

    Frankly, with everyone tightening down on data usage, I am not surprised at all to see data roaming agreements being throttled, and I doubt Sprint is the only one affected.

    BTW here is their voice map from 2009:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...-voice2009.png

    Compared to the current map, it looks nearly identical, except they have apparently added some roaming agreements in southeast Oregon and Puerto Rico since then.
    Last edited by Syndil; 04/25/2011 at 03:49 AM.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  8. #8  
    Yeah, the Sprint maps looked that way for a while. I mean, look, the roaming gray on that Sprint map is basically identical to Verizon's in-network coverage. If Sprint had really had all that gray space as network coverage before, with prices as cheap as they had been, Verizon wouldn't be towering over them as in much in subscripts.

    And with Sprint having free roaming, as long as you are not in the white, you are good for calls.
    Not really, that's why Sprint passes out those Airwaves like candy. While Sprint does offer roaming with Verizon, in some cases, they have cheaper deals with regional carriers. So they will force you to roam with a cheaper regional carrier, even if their reception is on a smidge better than Sprint's before they let you get on Verizon. Plus Sprint's towers are scattered and their strength is on par with offbrand paper towels, so the moment you walk into a building of considerable size or disappear down a hill or get on the wrong stretch of highway, your Sprint signal is busted.
    Last edited by malpha; 04/25/2011 at 04:20 AM.
    screwdestiny
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  9.    #9  
    has it always said this:
    3G roaming
    All data services work normally, except the following services are not accessible when roaming: Location Based Services (Sprint Family Locator, Sprint Navigation andTeleNav), Music store, Ready Link, and Data Link

    I am pretty sure thats new.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  10. Helidos's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Slow down there fellas. First off, I'm pretty sure Sprint's map has never been that full of "green." After a Google search, the only place I could find this particular map is on community.sprint.com and the site that IcerC mentioned. They are both 8-bit 256-color GIFs. Very easy to manipulate.

    Secondly, the green maps are for voice coverage, not data. And with Sprint having free roaming, as long as you are not in the white, you are good for calls. If you want to see where you will get 3G data and 3G data roaming, you need to be looking at the orange maps.

    Here is their current map:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...nt04252011.jpg

    Here is their map from 2009:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ge-map2009.png

    Dark orange = Sprint 3G data, light orange = slower Sprint data
    Dark gray = 3G roaming, light gray = slower data roaming.
    Your missing one important point if your not in bright orange the things like Location services(Family Locator, Telenav&Sprint nav) Music store, Ready link and Data Link "Are Not Accessible"

    Which is huge for people who travel a lot and use said features on the road.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    has it always said this:
    3G roaming
    All data services work normally, except the following services are not accessible when roaming: Location Based Services (Sprint Family Locator, Sprint Navigation andTeleNav), Music store, Ready Link, and Data Link

    I am pretty sure thats new.
    I'm pretty sure all other carriers charge a premium for that stuff...I know Verizon charges $10/month for it.

    Personally, I prefer my Garmin over my Sprint Navigation and rarely use my phone for nav.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by j_grouchy View Post
    I'm pretty sure all other carriers charge a premium for that stuff...I know Verizon charges $10/month for it.

    Personally, I prefer my Garmin over my Sprint Navigation and rarely use my phone for nav.
    So to answer my question... that is a new thing? I don't care about the competition. I prefer my GPS too but this doesn't have to do with that.

    The thing that has changed is the usefulness of roaming areas on sprint.

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  13. Helidos's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by j_grouchy View Post
    I'm pretty sure all other carriers charge a premium for that stuff...I know Verizon charges $10/month for it.

    Personally, I prefer my Garmin over my Sprint Navigation and rarely use my phone for nav.
    We pay for it on sprint.

    Unlimited service with say Tmo is 69.99 voice/text with data/gps etc being addons

    Unlimited with Sprint is a flat 99.99 + 10.00 (for smart phones) which includes the addons you pay separately for with Tmo

    If I do not want GPS with sprint to bad I still pay for it. Not to mention we will be paying $10 just because we activated a smart phone.

    So whats the point of sprint anymore? they use to be the cheapest with a huge coverage area for "all" the services they provided now they are no better than Metro Pcs have a look.

    The value of Sprint's all in one low price is no longer worth it when you can get the same services with better coverage for nearly the same price.

    All sprint has left in its court is the truly unlimited data...

    I am seriously considering leaving in June when my contract is up.
  14. #14  
    wow, now sprint really is garbage.. They don't even have good coverage going for them.. Sucks... I wanted the evo 3d but if I can't even depend on gettin good coverage then what's the point?.. Might as well suffer on verizon


    edit: maybe this is why hp is paying more attention to at&t and verizon
  15. #15  
    I guess now people will realize why competition is important and the new FCC rules that mandate a roaming agreement are in consumer's favor.

    HP is paying more attention to AT&T and Verizon as they have 70% of market share, even though that strategy will get them nowhere as they (Verizon and AT&T) will be pushing the latest iphone and android before webOS. Neither AT&T nor Verizon was interested in Android when it came out, it was the little guy (t-mobile) that took a chance. Before Droid Verizon had some of the most outdated crappiest phones ever. No competition leads to complacency. A duopoly with AT&T and Verizon will not be much different than a monopoly as they already copy each other e.g. increased ETF on one resulted in increased ETF on another, tiered data pricing is going to be the same etc..
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    I guess now people will realize why competition is important and the new FCC rules that mandate a roaming agreement are in consumer's favor.

    HP is paying more attention to AT&T and Verizon as they have 70% of market share, even though that strategy will get them nowhere as they (Verizon and AT&T) will be pushing the latest iphone and android before webOS. Neither AT&T nor Verizon was interested in Android when it came out, it was the little guy (t-mobile) that took a chance. Before Droid Verizon had some of the most outdated crappiest phones ever. No competition leads to complacency. A duopoly with AT&T and Verizon will not be much different than a monopoly as they already copy each other e.g. increased ETF on one resulted in increased ETF on another, tiered data pricing is going to be the same etc..


    hey it is clearer now.... If sprint falls and t mobile deal goes throug then big 2 can charge w/e they want and do w/e they please... Sprint needs to get it together ... Wait so does this mean I can't get a phone on big red or big blue? ( that's not a serious question )
  17. #17  
    I can not believe how much Sprint reduced their voice coverage. It looks worse than the old Cingular! Please check Sprint.com then Coverage map and you will be very upset! Anyone able to get out without an ETF?
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  18. #18  
    What did it look like before? Was it better?

    Roaming is included in most of their smartphone packages (and is covered in most of the map) so are you more upset about the data coverage? You wouldn't happen to have a screenshot of what the voice coverage looked like prior to the current Sprint coverage levels?
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  19. #19  
    Yes, the old map covered almost all of the USA. I am pretty upset about this!
    *Patchers STILL make this phone Perfect!
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  20. #20  
    Yes but the current voice coverage still covers most of the USA (roaming is included in unlimited plans). Unless you don't have a smart-phone and have a different plan? I'm assuming you mean that it used to cover more area but wasn't roaming? If that's the case, I can see your point. Interesting find nonetheless. Thanks.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
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