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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    The map on T-Mobile's site does not distinguish their own network from networks they have roaming agreements with, since they do not charge the customer for roaming. However the data you get on a roaming network is usually throttled. By how much depends on the specific agreement in place.

    As for 4G, T-Mo does not have 4G. They are simply calling HSPA+ 4G, because apparently they think it's fast enough to compete with the true 4G technologies, which are LTE and WiMax. But it's 3G technology. It's 3G that's been improved to support large amounts of data bandwidth, sure. But it is not 4G.

    T-Mo lost whatever inkling of a chance they might have had at having me as a customer when they started advertising 4G. It's the "big lie" fallacy. Tell a lie big enough, and people will believe it. But the problem with the "big lie" is that it assumes people don't know enough to know that it's a lie. In other words, the "big lie" method assumes customers are generally stupid. So T-Mo gets a big middle-finger salute from me.
    This is pretty much what I was just about to say.

    Here's how they mislead you:
    http://cl.ly/4i8j

    However, if you zoom in closer, you can see the picture isn't as clear as it was initially portrayed:
    http://cl.ly/4guU
    Last edited by barkerja; 02/19/2011 at 03:09 AM.
  2. #62  
    Exactly. And when you take away the "partner networks," the map looks like the one I showed previously. If you want to see what T-Mo's 4G map looks like, look at a blank piece of paper.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  3. #63  
    Just called to cancel, too. Sprint store rep said I could move my pick 2/pick 3 features to a new number on my old handset, but Customer Care would have to do it for me. That ended up not being the case -- but the process ended up resetting my upgrade eligibility and showing as a new contract.

    Account Services reset my upgrade but I was locked into a new contract. I was also charged an activation fee which the rep said he would waive... It wasn't waived on my last bill, but when I went back in the store he admitted he screwed up and refunded the fee.

    So... I'm on a prepaid Android (Virgin Mobile) for $25 a month and it's been working great -- Google Maps is quick to launch, there are apps galore, and my device also has a MicroSD slot so I was able to upgrade the storage for the cost of a 16GB microSD card.

    On the down side, Android has been taking some getting used to (I miss the cards) and I only have 300 minutes, but I could go to Verizon and get a Pre 2 or another contract Android phone and save $5 or $6 per month over Sprint's service with a premium data fee, or I could bump up to the 1200 minute plan for $40 a month. We'll see what happens with the Pre3, but for now I'm keeping my options open (and my bill low.)

    Just as a data point for anyone who is interested, Sprint put up very little fight when I called to cancel -- but they also saw my phone as a new line of service within the 30 day trial period (even though it was my original Pre on the same account.)
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    The map on T-Mobile's site does not distinguish their own network from networks they have roaming agreements with, since they do not charge the customer for roaming. However the data you get on a roaming network is usually throttled. By how much depends on the specific agreement in place.

    As for 4G, T-Mo does not have 4G. They are simply calling HSPA+ 4G, because apparently they think it's fast enough to compete with the true 4G technologies, which are LTE and WiMax. But it's 3G technology. It's 3G that's been improved to support large amounts of data bandwidth, sure. But it is not 4G.

    T-Mo lost whatever inkling of a chance they might have had at having me as a customer when they started advertising 4G. It's the "big lie" fallacy. Tell a lie big enough, and people will believe it. But the problem with the "big lie" is that it assumes people don't know enough to know that it's a lie. In other words, the "big lie" method assumes customers are generally stupid. So T-Mo gets a big middle-finger salute from me.
    Current WiMax and LTE are not 4G either according to the International Telecommunication Union. All U.S. of the major 4 are 'lying'.

    4G - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  5. #65  
    This stems from a re-definition of what 4G means. The term was re-defined because marketers began putting so much emphasis on it. Instead of simply referring to which generation a technology refers to, there are now "speed requirements" that must be met in order for a technology to be qualified as 3G or 4G.

    IMO this is utterly ridiculous and I refuse to participate. Marketers do not get to redefine the meanings of words to suit their purposes.

    1G - Analog
    2G - TDMA, CDMA, GSM
    3G - EV-DO, etc., GPRS, EDGE, HSPA, etc.
    4G - LTE, WiMax

    The "G" stands for "generation." If something is a refinement of already existing technology, it's part of the same generation. If it's something new, it's a new generation.

    Sprint and those advertising 4G were not lying until the definition was changed. But when you change the definition of a word that is already in the common vernacular, you essentially render it meaningless. To hell with the spin, I am sticking with the original, intended meaning, and I hope everyone else will too.
    Last edited by Syndil; 02/20/2011 at 04:04 PM.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  6. #66  
    Why not Simple Mobile? $65 a month (including tax!) for unlimited everything. I'll have to switch to a GSM Pre (or a dumb phone until the Pre 3 comes out and buy it unlocked) but for the cost, I'm inclined to make the switch. I used to receive a bunch of great discounts on Sprint, and had 2 lines with unlimted everything for $102 a month including tax, but Sprint Customer service offered me another 10% to re-up and in doing so they wiped out all of my discounts. Now I'm paying $170. So much for an incentive to re-up. Worst part is that I can't get anyone at Sprint to return my call to help fix the problem.

    I hate to walk away- it's been 10 years with Sprint. Oh well. Simple Mobile sounds great.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    This stems from a re-definition of what 4G means. The term was re-defined because marketers began putting so much emphasis on it. Instead of simply referring to which generation a technology refers to, there are now "speed requirements" that must be met in order for a technology to be qualified as 3G or 4G.

    IMO this is utterly ridiculous and I refuse to participate. Marketers do not get to redefine the meanings of words to suit their purposes.

    1G - Analog
    2G - TDMA, CDMA, GSM
    3G - EV-DO, etc., GPRS, EDGE, HSPA, etc.
    4G - LTE, WiMax

    The "G" stands for "generation." If something is a refinement of already existing technology, it's part of the same generation. If it's something new, it's a new generation.

    Sprint and those advertising 4G were not lying until the definition was changed. But when you change the definition of a word that is already in the common vernacular, you essentially render it meaningless. To hell with the spin, I am sticking with the original, intended meaning, and I hope everyone else will too.
    This is backwards. The only marketers who changed things were the carriers. The definition of "generation" is determined by the *standard-setting* International Telecommunications Union, so I don't know why you call a standard-setting body nothing more than "marketers."

    But even if you were going to use your metric (e.g., "something new" as opposed to "refinement of already existing technology), you put "GPRS" in the 3G category, when it is neither "something new" to GSM (it is simply a bolt-on...a "refinement of already existing technology", as you would say) nor does it fit 3G speed requirements. And EDGE, which is faster than GPRS (but your definition doesn't care about speed!) is *clearly* the definition of a refinement of already existing technology (GSM and GPRS).

    If you want EDGE and GPRS in 3G, then you might as well say UMTS (which actually *did* require new hardware/spectrum investments) is 4G, and so should everyone be advertising things as 5G now??

    I'm sure most people have read the Engadget primer on this confusion, but here it is again.
  8. #68  
    This was an abbreviation of something I had already posted before. Here is the full thing:

    http://forums.precentral.net/other-h...ml#post2829923

    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Here's my take on what 4G means. Regardless of what the ITU says, the "G" has always stood for generation. That word has a meaning that is seemingly being ignored now. If something is based on something that's already there, it's part of the same generation. If it's completely new, it's a new generation.

    The reason it's being ignored is because carriers have put so much marketing value on the terms, when in reality they were never meant to be used as marketing tools. But to me, it's simple:

    1G is AMPS or any other analog cellular phone service.

    2G is GSM, D-AMPS (what we in the US called TDMA) or IS-95 (what we call CDMA). GSM and D-AMPS are both based on TDMA. 2G is where we get the TDMA/CDMA path split, and there is a different technology for each path in each generation... Except for 2.5G.

    2.5G is GPRS. It's at 2.5 because it was tacked on to GSM, but it isn't based on GSM. Refinements of GPRS led to EDGE, but it was not a new platform, so it is still part of the same generation.

    3G is CDMA2000, and all refinements based on it (1xRTT, EV-DO RevA, Rev0); and UMTS, and all refinements based on it, including HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+, dual-carrier HSPA+ and HSPA+ Evolution.

    4G is LTE or WiMax.

    And guess what LTE Advanced and WiMax 2 are based on... So they will still be 4G.

    When "generation" is used with the proper definition, it's not difficult to understand. Marketing departments have ruined it by implying that more "Gs" is faster and better than less, just like digital camera manufacturers have done with megapixels.

    I will continue to use the above definitions, which are the most logical, IMO. And based on that logic, the only carriers that can honestly claim that they actually have 4G available (in some markets) are Verizon and Sprint, with Sprint being first to the punch, with an honest-to-goodness 4G WiMax service. AT&T has not started to roll out LTE (not that I am aware of anyway... Googled, but I could be wrong), and T-Mo's "4G" is actually HSPA+, which is not 4G at all, but 3G. But hey, Sprint claimed they had 4G, so they have to call theirs 4G too, nanny nanny boo boo.

    I refuse to participate in all this madness. Words have meaning. You can agree or we can agree to disagree, but the logic follows.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  9. #69  
    i canceled 2 of my sprint lines tonight, just 2 pres and a pixi remain on the account, only 1 under contract now.
    Palm prē-ist.
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