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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The dust never settles in today's market. Your product just better be able to shine through that unsettled dust!
    That's more of a vendor-oriented perspective and I realize you're communicating to them. ... and yes, sometimes - as a consumer - it's hard to decide when to stop waiting. My point is that there is a tsunami of phones (and tablets) coming this year and if you wait a week or so after the last wave passes, you'll be in a much better position to see which ones the market is liking and which ones the market is perceiving as losers.

    EDIT: Maybe for me your point is which is the "last wave". For the purpose of a discussion in a WebOS website, I'm saying Valentines day is probably the earliest time to decide on any next phone.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    [COLOR="Navy"]Only the Palm division. HP still makes a killing on laptops and printers(plus ink refills). I still think one reason they're so lackluster with Palm is that printers and laptops are still where their main bread and butter is. They can just write off any Palm losses.
    Being #1 in the world for all personal computer shipments and having $126B in revenue is certainly nothing to sneeze at. They haven't really done anything with Palm yet other than to let them release a phone that should have been one the market last summer for developers to play with and let the users find the remaining bugs in webOS 2.x. The Feb announcement will be the first real move by HP to use the assets it purchased when it took over Palm.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by fixxxer1022 View Post
    i think we can guarantee this will be an iphone announcement and i bet a ton of people switch to it. i fear for hp/palm at this point.
    And with good reason. Palm laid an egg on Sprint, then kindly moved much of its customer base to Verizon with the Pre +. Unfortunately, they left them hanging out to dry with no upgrade path, and promises of a P2 that still haven't come to pass.

    Now, Apple will be bringing the single hottest phone in the world to their carrier of choice. All the Pre owners that do not break out in hives at the mention of Apple, will be upgrading to the iPhone: all 50 of them.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    That's more of a vendor-oriented perspective and I realize you're communicating to them. ... and yes, sometimes - as a consumer - it's hard to decide when to stop waiting. My point is that there is a tsunami of phones (and tablets) coming this year and if you wait a week or so after the last wave passes, you'll be in a much better position to see which ones the market is liking and which ones the market is perceiving as losers.

    EDIT: Maybe for me your point is which is the "last wave". For the purpose of a discussion in a WebOS website, I'm saying Valentines day is probably the earliest time to decide on any next phone.
    By that same logic, you should be encouraging everyone to wait a few more weeks to see what Apple does with the iPhone V. iOS V is just around the corner. Let's be honest you don't want consumers to wait for the dust to clear and make an informed decision, you just want them to wait for Palm.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    Being #1 in the world for all personal computer shipments and having $126B in revenue is certainly nothing to sneeze at. They haven't really done anything with Palm yet other than to let them release a phone that should have been one the market last summer for developers to play with and let the users find the remaining bugs in webOS 2.x. The Feb announcement will be the first real move by HP to use the assets it purchased when it took over Palm.
    That is a very dismissive attitude toward the P2. You want to pretend that HP had nothing to do with it and cares nothing about it. They released the product for sale to the public. Now, you are implying that those who bought into it are just a bunch of chumps used as beta testers.

    You want to suggest that HP didn't fail; Palm did. It wasn't HP who couldn't get carrier partners. It wasn't HP who green lighted the project. HP meant for the P2 to work out the way it did. They just wanted developers to have something to play with. Wow!. Just, wow! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. The "real" wizard is about to strut his stuff. That is a dizzying amount of spin.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    By that same logic, you should be encouraging everyone to wait a few more weeks to see what Apple does with the iPhone V. iOS V is just around the corner. Let's be honest you don't want consumers to wait for the dust to clear and make an informed decision, you just want them to wait for Palm.
    Yes, perhaps I (somewhat illogically) drew a line in the sand around Palm. I agree with your points that the dust never settles and there's no guarantee I'll even upgrade after my arbitrary line in the sand is crossed. I suspect I will either need to be really "wow"ed, or I'll need to see something good that's still cost effective. (I want all 3, but that's not going to happen.) The $99 EVO came close except the 4G tax made that a $338 EVO for me. (I did buy one for my son as it suits his needs almost perfectly.)

    Personally I'm more interested in seeing how tablet OS's shake out. Does/will IOS differ on a tablet from an iPhone? Will Honeycomb be different and useful enough? What will WebOS look like? I'll need to be wow'ed enough by WebOS on a tablet to believe they've made a comeback. Otherwise I'll seriously think about what's the most cost effective strategy for my needs. That might be a rooted nookColor and using my Pre to provide WiFi.
    Last edited by sudoer; 01/08/2011 at 09:55 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  7. #47  
    geez people, the with the tone of these threads, hp might as well pick feb 29 to make any kind of announcement...

    in all seriousness, even if vzw announces the iphone, and with all their droid devices coming...they will have one hell of a portfolio of devices.

    as a long time customer of vzw though, I could care less. Has anyone noticed the changes vzw is making to their policies? Return period will change to 14 days as opposed to 30, no more annual upgrades until 20 months, no more new every two...and I'm sure increased fees to access 4G speeds.

    for all of us phone nerds here, this is the worst thing that can happen. Can any of you hold on to your current devices for 20 months? I doubt it.

    if hp releases on multiple networks, I may be leaving vzw, iphone or droid whatever, I could care less.
  8. LNWJ's Avatar
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    #48  
    Awesome! HP made a fantastic choice putting the Pre 2 on Verizon.

    /Facepalm
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by BobKy View Post
    No,the Palm Pre 2 is going to be announced...

    Hey, you can call me a dreamer,but I'm not the only one
    I imagine you are right about that.
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is a very dismissive attitude toward the P2. You want to pretend that HP had nothing to do with it and cares nothing about it. They released the product for sale to the public. Now, you are implying that those who bought into it are just a bunch of chumps used as beta testers.

    You want to suggest that HP didn't fail; Palm did. It wasn't HP who couldn't get carrier partners. It wasn't HP who green lighted the project. HP meant for the P2 to work out the way it did. They just wanted developers to have something to play with. Wow!. Just, wow! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. The "real" wizard is about to strut his stuff. That is a dizzying amount of spin.
    To be honest, I think HP may not really care about the Pre 2 and messed up just because they didn't care. They know how to market, they aren't stupid. I get email after email from them selling, you guessed it, laptops and printers, lol.

    We now have to see if they care about products they probably had a more active role in. People have said that the Pre 2 was likely already developed for release when Palm was bought by HP, so it may not be their "baby".
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is a very dismissive attitude toward the P2.
    ...
    That is a dizzying amount of spin.
    But Palm did what they could in spite of whatever carriers wouldn't do. They provided a way to get an unlocked GSM Pre2. That show that Palm at least knows how to make good lemonade!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. ieko's Avatar
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    #52  
    Verizon's 3G -- slower & less reliable starting this Tuesday!

    I hope there is an LTE HP phone soon... Because I'm pretty sure this won't be a fun time.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    geez people, the with the tone of these threads, hp might as well pick feb 29 to make any kind of announcement...

    in all seriousness, even if vzw announces the iphone, and with all their droid devices coming...they will have one hell of a portfolio of devices.

    as a long time customer of vzw though, I could care less. Has anyone noticed the changes vzw is making to their policies? Return period will change to 14 days as opposed to 30, no more annual upgrades until 20 months, no more new every two...and I'm sure increased fees to access 4G speeds.

    for all of us phone nerds here, this is the worst thing that can happen. Can any of you hold on to your current devices for 20 months? I doubt it.

    if hp releases on multiple networks, I may be leaving vzw, iphone or droid whatever, I could care less.
    It's getting close to 20 months on old faithful pre here. I might even just keep it and let my contract end in june,
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is a very dismissive attitude toward the P2. You want to pretend that HP had nothing to do with it and cares nothing about it. They released the product for sale to the public. Now, you are implying that those who bought into it are just a bunch of chumps used as beta testers.

    You want to suggest that HP didn't fail; Palm did. It wasn't HP who couldn't get carrier partners. It wasn't HP who green lighted the project. HP meant for the P2 to work out the way it did. They just wanted developers to have something to play with. Wow!. Just, wow! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. The "real" wizard is about to strut his stuff. That is a dizzying amount of spin.
    It's not spin, you just need to pull your head out of the RDF to see what's going on. The phone was in development long before the buyout, it was released primarily to a market w/o any other webOS phones and has only been available to developers here in the US. Like The Phone Diva said, it's not "HP's baby", but they didn't want to kill it outright and are using it as a test bed for the OS that will be on their newer phones. Carriers aren't going to want to pick up a new phone that will just be replaced in a couple months. Hopefully, if they do continue, it will be marketed as the low end of a group of phones just like how the 3G and 3GS were continued as low end phones along side the newer iPhone. That's certainly a better strategy than just writing all those costs off and not doing anything with it.
  15. #55  
    backwards rationalization ftw. That's all I have to say. It's also not a developer phone. That's also a popular bit of backwards rationalization. Saying in the US it's only available to devs is also incorrect.

    Carry on
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToddK View Post
    I'm really surprised that all the "know it all's" haven't been all offered jobs by Apple, HP, etc.

    They all CLEARLY know everything that's going to happen/not happen, etc. (From what I'm reading here, HP should just close up shop -it's game over, right? ...it will be sad to see the world's largest electronics company go down the tubes... all because of a phone. (sniff))

    These folks really need to get out of the basement and find another hobby/girlfriend etc.

    All this angst over a cell phone. You would think someone curing/causing cancer!

    PS - I think HP will be just fine... ;-) See you all in Feb.

    peace.



    Your attitude withstanding, the fact is that us "know it alls" have a grasp on reality here.

    Wanting something to happen and it actually happening are two very different things.
    That's something that needs to be accepted here.


    HP having "billions of dollars" and being the "number one seller of computers" is completely irrelevant to their ability to take on Google/Apple/Microsoft in the mobile world.

    Selling computer hardware that is assembled from other people's parts and making your own parts [and software] and distributing it is exceedingly different.

    You do not get a "free pass", so to speak, with the latter because you were successful in doing the former.



    I'm with what a lot of people have said here.
    With the onslaught of Android phones and tablets announced...
    The upcoming version of Android [honeycomb] which just looks amazing...
    The release of the Blackberry Playbook...
    The iphone's release on Verizon...

    Hell, the inability for WebOS to get dev interest... [WM7 has more apps than WebOS and has been out for 18 months less]...


    I mean...honestly... even if HP releases some really kick *** stuff... can any of it compete with all of that?



    You're just not being realistic if you're not concerned.
    Last edited by Mattykinsx; 01/09/2011 at 06:14 AM.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    But Palm did what they could in spite of whatever carriers wouldn't do. They provided a way to get an unlocked GSM Pre2. That show that Palm at least knows how to make good lemonade!
    Exactly! HP made lemonade, which is another way of saying their plans were blown to pieces, and they did the best they could with the remaining fragments.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    The phone was in development long before the buyout,
    I hear that a lot around here. But do we know that from any official source, or is that just more spin to get HP off the hook for a horrible product release?

    it was released primarily to a market w/o any other webOS phones and has only been available to developers here in the US.
    How's that strategy working out for them? If the P2 was such a great phone, it should be breaking all sales records in those places where people have no experience with wOS. Why haven't we heard of it's staggering success in those markets?

    Developer phone, you say? Why hasn't HP said anything about this? Why haven't developers descended on the P2 like a pack of ravenous wolves? Why would they want a device that is not available to the largest population of wOS users? Why would they want a developer phone that will be obsolete in a couple of months, and doesn't represent the company's vision of where the product is going?

    Like The Phone Diva said, it's not "HP's baby"
    So let me get this straight. Palm was pregnant when HP married her. HP didn't care about the baby that wasn't theirs, so they knifed the baby. They didn't outright kill it; they just injured it, abandoned it, and left it for dead. And you think I'm the one in an RDF.

    Here's a more likely scenario: HP released the P2 as soon as they could, thinking it might stop the bleeding. They shopped it around to carriers who slammed the door in their face. Angry supporters demanded to know why the phone wasn't on their favorite carrier. HP pouted that the carriers are a bunch of meanies, and told their supporters to ask the carrier.

    HP can't quite get 2.0 completed and out to current devices. They can't get Verizon, the only US carrier who said "yes" to fulfill their promise in a timely manner, and they had to develop a new strategy by cutting the price for developers and try to save some face during this very public debacle.

    Now, they will have an even harder time getting Verizon's attention, as they are about to catch a fatal case of iPhone fever. Suddenly, all HP initiatives just moved way down the Verizon priority list. At least AT&T might have a little more free time.

    Hopefully, if they do continue, it will be marketed as the low end of a group of phones just like how the 3G and 3GS were continued as low end phones along side the newer iPhone.
    In no universe, in no way can the P2 be compared to the iPhone. You are suggesting the P2 will go in the bargain bin as a low end phone just a couple of months after release. You realize the iP3G/3GS had a successful run of a year before being reduced to $99. You realize the Pre, Pre+, and Pre2 have never had a successful run at any price, right?

    That's certainly a better strategy than just writing all those costs off and not doing anything with it.
    No, it's not. That is one of the big differences between Apple and those who want to be Apple. Apple knows when to say "NO" to a project. They know when to cut their losses. They know that it is better to eat some R&D, than to release a crappy project just because they spent some money on it. HP should have said no to the P2, the Slate, and the Zeen. They clearly don't have the leadership or vision to make that kind of judgement call.

    Quote Originally Posted by stung View Post
    backwards rationalization ftw. That's all I have to say. It's also not a developer phone. That's also a popular bit of backwards rationalization. Saying in the US it's only available to devs is also incorrect.
    +1
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Exactly! HP made lemonade, which is another way of saying their plans were blown to pieces, and they did the best they could with the remaining fragments.



    I hear that a lot around here. But do we know that from any official source, or is that just more spin to get HP off the hook for a horrible product release?



    How's that strategy working out for them? If the P2 was such a great phone, it should be breaking all sales records in those places where people have no experience with wOS. Why haven't we heard of it's staggering success in those markets?

    Developer phone, you say? Why hasn't HP said anything about this? Why haven't developers descended on the P2 like a pack of ravenous wolves? Why would they want a device that is not available to the largest population of wOS users? Why would they want a developer phone that will be obsolete in a couple of months, and doesn't represent the company's vision of where the product is going?



    So let me get this straight. Palm was pregnant when HP married her. HP didn't care about the baby that wasn't theirs, so they knifed the baby. They didn't outright kill it; they just injured it, abandoned it, and left it for dead. And you think I'm the one in an RDF.

    Here's a more likely scenario: HP released the P2 as soon as they could, thinking it might stop the bleeding. They shopped it around to carriers who slammed the door in their face. Angry supporters demanded to know why the phone wasn't on their favorite carrier. HP pouted that the carriers are a bunch of meanies, and told their supporters to ask the carrier.

    HP can't quite get 2.0 completed and out to current devices. They can't get Verizon, the only US carrier who said "yes" to fulfill their promise in a timely manner, and they had to develop a new strategy by cutting the price for developers and try to save some face during this very public debacle.

    Now, they will have an even harder time getting Verizon's attention, as they are about to catch a fatal case of iPhone fever. Suddenly, all HP initiatives just moved way down the Verizon priority list. At least AT&T might have a little more free time.



    In no universe, in no way can the P2 be compared to the iPhone. You are suggesting the P2 will go in the bargain bin as a low end phone just a couple of months after release. You realize the iP3G/3GS had a successful run of a year before being reduced to $99. You realize the Pre, Pre+, and Pre2 have never had a successful run at any price, right?



    No, it's not. That is one of the big differences between Apple and those who want to be Apple. Apple knows when to say "NO" to a project. They know when to cut their losses. They know that it is better to eat some R&D, than to release a crappy project just because they spent some money on it. HP should have said no to the P2, the Slate, and the Zeen. They clearly don't have the leadership or vision to make that kind of judgement call.



    +1
    As usual, I cannot disagree with anything you have said.

    I do want to point something out that is ignored here.

    HP can't quite get 2.0 completed and out to current devices.
    This is a very significant, and very true, statement.

    You have many people on here making claims that because "hp is the biggest computer seller" and "has billions to spend" that they should be able to come up with something formidable to compete with everyone else.

    Yet they can't even get the new "much improved" version of their OS out to the older devices within a few months. [2.0 was released October 22 2010]
  19. #59  
    besides the android fans bashing HP/Palm and webos (who knows why im confused this is a webos forum) back on topic if Verizon announces the iphone tuesday, when does anyone think they will launch it?
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    besides the android fans bashing HP/Palm and webos (who knows why im confused this is a webos forum) back on topic if Verizon announces the iphone tuesday, when does anyone think they will launch it?
    30 days maximum.

    Apple doesn't do the "in the coming months" routine.
    Although I don't like Apple, I'm not going to deny the fact that when they decide to do something it gets done.
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