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  1. #21  
    Verizon is going to have to seriously change their ways if they want to compete with the Pre against Sprint's Pre and AT&T's iPhone. People seem to have a lot of "brand loyalty" to Verizon, which I don't quite understand. The number one reason I hear for people sticking with Verizon is "It's the Network". If that means access to towers, etc., I roam for free onto Verizon (voice and data, 1xRTT and EV-DO) as needed. Verizon's data plans and everything plans are *much* cheaper. When people realize they can get the Pre on Sprint now without having to wait, or wonder what apps Verizon will restrict (never mind that Verizon costs more per month), Verizon will have to change their ways. I predict it will take Verizon about a year before they realize this and start offering competitive plans. If I were you, I'd consider it "safe" to switch to Sprint for the next two years and then maybe go back to a better Verizon after they have finished experiencing their pains in adapting to this new market.

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    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2. efudd's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    ...People seem to have a lot of "brand loyalty" to Verizon, which I don't quite understand. The number one reason I hear for people sticking with Verizon is "It's the Network". If that means access to towers, etc., I roam for free onto Verizon (voice and data, 1xRTT and EV-DO) as needed. ...--
    Bob

    spoken from someone who never had verizon- kidding.

    I used to think like you do. I had sprint for like 8+ years.

    but the reality is on sprint you DO NOT have access to all of verizon's network. You ONLY have access to a fraction of verizon's towers which sprint puts in thier PRL lists. I'm not sure if it's verizon that holds back towers to keep a competive edge or if sprint holds back towers becasue they think there network is "good enough" in an area so dont want to pay VZ to roam.

    I'm sure the same holds true for verizon roaming on Sprint.

    I live and work in the more rural part of NJ. I can tell you that there were places that I specifically had dead spots with Sprint and my sprint phone NEVER roamed but the day I got a verizon phone i had coverage. I can tell you that in NYC i can get service inside many subway stations from verizons 800 mhz cells but couldn't with sprint. I can tell you that I work regulary in 2 big concrete and steel buildings and my sprint phone would die frequently but verizon dies rarely. So there are in fact areas where verizon just is MUCH better.

    Obviously I'm sure there are areas where sprint is much better. But I'd place my bets that in the northeast where verizon was one of the original 2 cell carriers throughout the former bell atlantic and nynex areas that they have the BEST network by far. THey had a decade head start and it shows.

    (what's interesing to me is that ATT still isn't as good- they bought up most of the original non- verizon memebers of the regional duopolies, but I guess all the different networks that they've had to combine has slowed them down...)

    bottom line- in the Northeast- Verizon has the best network by far, everyone around her knows it, and so Verizon charges way more than the other carriers becasue they can get away with it.

    I own my own small business- for many years we used sprint. We figured they were "good enough". I laughed at the people paying soo much more on verizon. I thought like you that I had access to their network whenever i needed it but was paying the sprint prices that are a fraction of verizons. We did some small jobs for verizon wireless. Then we got a larger job and they kind of made an issue of the fact that we still used sprint phones, so to appease them we switched to verizon. After like a week, we decided we would not be going back untill there was a fundemental change- could be that 4G does that but for now we're just not leaving verizon even if their prices are nutty and their phones stink. We'll suck it up and pay more because we can use our sucky phones just about anyplace.
  3. efudd's Avatar
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    #23  
    Verizon's plans are sooo confusing. Are any of you on the new "premium" or "connect" plans? ( I know the business plans all changed in mid may- did they change the individual plans then too?). They still make you add on the 30 bucks for data with the connect plan?

    connect plan says "Unlimited Data for Mobile Web and Get it Now/Media Center" and "mobile email". Has anyone tried a smartphone on that plan? Do they charge you for the data add-on also?

    if not then that plan is only 10 bucks more for data.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    spoken from someone who never had verizon- kidding.
    Jokes aside, your response was exactly the sort of information I was fishing for. I've never roamed onto Verizon at all until I got the Pre and the Everything Data plan. I haven't tried the new phone many places, but the MBTA is a lot better. (I think Verizon installed repeaters in many underground stations and I've seen at least a weak 1xRTT roaming signal on most or all of the underground portions of the Orange line.) Thanks for setting the record straight for me regarding Verizon. I was really curious why people were so "brand loyal" and I think you provided the answer.

    thanks,
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    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  5. efudd's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy View Post
    Jokes aside, your response was exactly the sort of information I was fishing for. I've never roamed onto Verizon at all until I got the Pre and the Everything Data plan. I haven't tried the new phone many places, but the MBTA is a lot better. (I think Verizon installed repeaters in many underground stations and I've seen at least a weak 1xRTT roaming signal on most or all of the underground portions of the Orange line.) Thanks for setting the record straight for me regarding Verizon. I was really curious why people were so "brand loyal" and I think you provided the answer.

    thanks,
    --
    Bob
    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/tech...57/detail.html

    looks like theres a third party that provides 'roaming' on the MBTA
    Last edited by efudd; 06/18/2009 at 03:22 PM. Reason: original reply was incorrect
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    Cell Phone Service Expanded On MBTA Lines - Technology News Story - WCVB Boston

    looks like theres a third party that provides 'roaming' on the MBTA
    Yes, about 2 or so years ago, I saw some engineers mounting temporary repeaters to test out the proof of concept. I asked them about it at the time and they said it was for cell phone coverage and would happen "next summer" at that time. I can't for the life of me remember the exact date or time of year that this was, but it did not happen by the next summer (which was probably summer of 2007). Sometime later, I noticed the antennas in the stations. The news reported at the time was that this would work underground where the four lines intersect (about a block or two apart from eachother) and underground between/near these stations. The URL above says the same thing.

    I was a bit surprised by the 1XRTT coverage on the orange line. I suspect parts of the other lines would also work with Verizon CDMA. There are parts of the red line that go pretty deep underground so I doubt that it would work everywhere on that line.

    I'm pretty happy with the additional roaming, but not being a Verizon user, you guys might have it much better than we Sprint roamers do. You all should try a Pre for a month (alongside your current verizon phone) and dump Verizon is the difference is not that big. In two years, there will be LTE and WiMAX, so the options will probably be very different once your next Sprint or Verizon contract completes.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    Verizon's plans are sooo confusing. Are any of you on the new "premium" or "connect" plans? ( I know the business plans all changed in mid may- did they change the individual plans then too?). They still make you add on the 30 bucks for data with the connect plan?

    connect plan says "Unlimited Data for Mobile Web and Get it Now/Media Center" and "mobile email". Has anyone tried a smartphone on that plan? Do they charge you for the data add-on also?

    if not then that plan is only 10 bucks more for data.
    ok, some of u guys r confused about vzw's plans. the premium and connect plans r for "dumbphones" and "feature phones" like the flips, chocolates, env's, voyager, glyde and so on. you can't get those plans for smartphones (winmo, bb's).

    the only plan u can get on smartphones r the basic plans and unlimited messaging with talk plans. on all smartphones post 11/14/08 require a data plan ($30/month unless u need corp data then it's $45). When i had the voyager, i had the $80 premium plan, now i'm on the $40 voice (450 min), bb data ($30), and 500 tx with unlimited in $10. so i'm paying the same. i use free gps software (amazegps) with turn by turn voice.

    so u would never have the connect/premium plan and the data plan b/c u can't use connect/premium if u have a smartphone.

    hope this clears things up.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    spoken from someone who never had verizon- kidding.

    I used to think like you do. I had sprint for like 8+ years.

    but the reality is on sprint you DO NOT have access to all of verizon's network. You ONLY have access to a fraction of verizon's towers which sprint puts in thier PRL lists. I'm not sure if it's verizon that holds back towers to keep a competive edge or if sprint holds back towers becasue they think there network is "good enough" in an area so dont want to pay VZ to roam.

    I'm sure the same holds true for verizon roaming on Sprint.
    QFT. I use Verizon now because the network is that good. The phones suck, the prices are high, but I always have a signal. My girlfriend was on Sprint for the longest time and she would never get the same signal I was.

    Additionally, I would be hesitant to switch to Sprint for the following reasons:


    1. Sprint doesn't own any towers anymore (h ttp://w ww.engadget.com/2008/07/24/sprint-nextel-sells-off-nearly-all-of-its-towers-to-towerco-fo/)
    2. Sprint's customer support is awful. My girlfriend needed to activate her phone, and for some reason, the proper protocol was to wait in the store while the Sprint rep called Sprint tech support and got the phone activated. Maybe it was a special case or something, but every time we've had to go to Sprint customer support it has been the same deal. On Verizon, I can accomplish nearly all of my contract management online. Or, if I go to a Verizon store, they'll access the computers there and fix it for me. They won't be calling Verizon support while I stand there and twiddle my thumbs. (sorry, little bitter about this)
    3. Sprint is continuing to lose customers and money. (h ttp://gigaom.com/2009/02/19/sprint-loses-less-money-more-subscribers/)


    Its not that I hate Sprint. I want to like them, especially given their pricing, its just that Verizon's network is better and Sprint's customer support is awful. My prediction is on Verizon buying Sprint sometime within the next 3 years.
  9. efudd's Avatar
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    #29  
    I doubt the justice department would permit verizon to buy sprint unless they went bankrupt (and I dont think they are that bad- but really am not a stock market guy). They had a cow when verizon bought lowly regional alltell that competition would be reduced in some areas where they had overlapping networks and made vz cell off those areas. Sprints whole network probably overlaps with verizon.

    I wonder if the pre and the apparent better customer service has helped stem the loss of customers?

    I wouldn't sweat that they dont "own" their own towers. I think that was just some business/tax scam sort of move. I think they sold all physical towers (not the antennas and electronics) to that 3rd party and got long term leases to keep their antennas on them anyway. I suspect that a no carrier owns a majority of the physical structures that their antenna's are mounted too. They dont buy the buildings they lease space on, and they all co-locate on single towers all the time- you can always see towers with 3,4,5 or even 6 sets of antennas. Only the first company owns the tower the others lease space. I think there are even regulations about how much they can charge each other as the government would prefer they share rather then put up 4 times as many towers all over the place.

    that said- vz is better for sure. :-)
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    #30  
    It's interesting to note that the company that bought the towers was a VERY small company with only a little over a hundred towers and NO money to speak of suddenly came up with several hundred million dollars and bought several thousand towers. At the time of the tower purchase they had a news blurb on their home page about how they were trying to get financing for buying another 21 towers.
    Sounds to me like Sprint just put these towers in someone elses name for tax purposes.
    Store Manager, Authorized Sprint Retailer and Authorized Service Center for Sprint/Nextel devices. Please post inquiries to the "Ask a Sprint rep" sticky on the CDMA North America forum.
    Rocking the Evo Shift 4G till Pre3 lands.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by yoshk View Post
    It's interesting to note that the company that bought the towers was a VERY small company with only a little over a hundred towers and NO money to speak of suddenly came up with several hundred million dollars and bought several thousand towers. At the time of the tower purchase they had a news blurb on their home page about how they were trying to get financing for buying another 21 towers.
    Sounds to me like Sprint just put these towers in someone elses name for tax purposes.
    That's entirely possible, I hadn't noticed that. It's not that I want Sprint to fail, its just that I don't get the best vibes from them right now.
  12. yoshk's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    2. Sprint's customer support is awful. My girlfriend needed to activate her phone, and for some reason, the proper protocol was to wait in the store while the Sprint rep called Sprint tech support and got the phone activated. Maybe it was a special case or something, but every time we've had to go to Sprint customer support it has been the same deal. On Verizon, I can accomplish nearly all of my contract management online. .....

    Your GF could have activated the phone from home if she sets up her Sprint.com account. If the rep in the store can't activate the phone in their computer system, either there is a issue with your GF's account, the phone itself has a technical issue with programming, or their computer system is down. I also assure you if the Sprint rep at the store calls someone it is not customer service, they are contacting National Sales Support which is NOT the same.
    Store Manager, Authorized Sprint Retailer and Authorized Service Center for Sprint/Nextel devices. Please post inquiries to the "Ask a Sprint rep" sticky on the CDMA North America forum.
    Rocking the Evo Shift 4G till Pre3 lands.
  13. #33  
    I agree with EFUDD. I live in the Northeast and in a very wooded area... It's impossible to get any signal but Verizons. I went to the Sprint store and the sales rep assured me I would have adequate coverage at my house, but alas, he was wrong. He claimed that I would just roam on Verizon's network but this was not the case. Where I typically get 2-3 bars of Verizon, I got NOTHING with the Sprint phone I tested. AT&T was pathetic as well. I'm going to bide my time and see what big red is up to (I am totally in love with the Pre!). If they don't provide a WebOS phone of sorts soon I'm jumping ship.

    I currently own a Storm and would like to burn it, smash it, sledgehammer it, punt it, you name it. I'm in hell!
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by LikeWebOS View Post
    Most of Verizon smartphones have to have the $30 data plan. Even the Omnia and HTC Touch both of which has built in Wifi, have to have the data plan. And I assume that Verizon will make is mandatory too with the Pre.
    Actually, the HTC Touch from Verizon has the 802.11 WiFi chip removed or disabled.
    I just purchased one this week, after playing with a GSM version of the same phone, and was very disappointed to find that.
    Looked closely at the spec on the vzw website and, sure enough, no wifi...
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    #35  
    The Over-the-Air music downloads on Vcast Music are 1.99 because you are getting two copies of the song. One that you can download immediately to your phone and a backup copy of higher quality that is also DRM free that you download to a computer. Nobody else does that and it is great so that you do not loose your whole music library you purchased when you drop your phone in to the pool or it gets stolen.
  16. #36  
    Whether a BB or not, it will fall under the "smartphone" category.

    $30 for having a smartphone
    $10 more for txt and pic mail.
    $10 more for VZ Nav
    No TV. Maybe VCast, but no VCAST TV

    All that is extra on Verizon.
    Plus Verizon limits size of pics you txt or email.
    Verizon's music is $1.99 per song

    It is all included in Sprint's $99 Unlimited plan. $20 if you are on a reg ular plan.
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by acipollo View Post
    Whether a BB or not, it will fall under the "smartphone" category.

    $30 for having a smartphone
    $10 more for txt and pic mail.
    $10 more for VZ Nav
    No TV. Maybe VCast, but no VCAST TV

    All that is extra on Verizon.
    Plus Verizon limits size of pics you txt or email.
    Verizon's music is $1.99 per song

    It is all included in Sprint's $99 Unlimited plan. $20 if you are on a reg ular plan.
    verizon recently changed all the plans. (may-ish)

    You can get an "everything" plan from them too. You can get it with unlimited text, unlimited text and data, or unlimited text data and nav.

    But as a general rule verizon is clearly more expensive for their published prices then sprint.
  18. #38  
    I like my pre on my non divested alltel (till oct 22nd) thankfully my contract doesn't expire for 2 more years. I have 500 nationwide mins, 400 sms and unlimited data for 10/month. Plus I have great coverage pretty much everywhere and it wasn't a pain to get alltel to add my meid to my account.
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    #39  
    I just wanted to chime in and say that as a new Sprint customer (5 years with Verizon) that i am very happy with the customer service.

    I heard it was horrible, but every rep on the phone has been helpful and while it takes awhile, we always figure out a solution. The latest was when I called in about my Pre roaming at home and killing the battery. They sent me an Airwave FREE! how awesome is that?
  20. #40  
    I don't understand where this meme came around that "only certain Verizon towers" are in Sprint's PRLs. PRLs cannot go to such a granular level, the most granular they can get is to a MTA which is far far larger than "a tower". You can go see the PRLs for yourself and compare them to Verizon's. Sprint roams fully onto Verizon with the only exception being the DC Metro on the negative list as of the last Sprint PRL I looked at. This is because the DC Metro has a fake MTA set up for it because Verizon wanted to control who could use it.
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