View Poll Results: How will the availability of SERO affect your decision to purchase a Pre?

Voters
130. You may not vote on this poll
  • I have SERO & will purchase the Pre even if I can't keep my SERO plan

    9 6.92%
  • I have SERO & will not purchase the Pre if I can't keep my SERO plan

    48 36.92%
  • I don't have SERO but if it's not available with the Pre, I may not purchase it

    2 1.54%
  • I don't have SERO and am not concerned about its availability with the Pre

    44 33.85%
  • I just don't care

    13 10.00%
  • What's SERO?

    14 10.77%
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  1. #1021  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrion88 View Post
    Dude, you should read through your posts and see just how obnoxious you really are.
    Dude, I'm devistated that you feel that way.

    OK, not really, but I did get tired of the whining. I've been on this (well, this predessor's) site for a long time. I've never seen the immature level of posting as I have about the people that are demanding their SERO.

    If they can get it, great. But, what I find "obnoxious" are the posts like the one we're referring to.

    The poster stated that he likes the SERO plan so much, he won't leave it, but he hopes the company goes out of business because of their efforts to do away with it.

    Like I said - a hoot.
  2. #1022  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Dude, I'm devistated that you feel that way.

    OK, not really, but I did get tired of the whining. I've been on this (well, this predessor's) site for a long time. I've never seen the immature level of posting as I have about the people that are demanding their SERO.

    If they can get it, great. But, what I find "obnoxious" are the posts like the one we're referring to.

    The poster stated that he likes the SERO plan so much, he won't leave it, but he hopes the company goes out of business because of their efforts to do away with it.

    Like I said - a hoot.
    There's quite a bit I disagree with on here too, but it's the approach one takes that I see as being the problem. There are clearly two points of view on this and there are aspects I see raised that while I don't agree with, sure, they raise valid points.

    I generally avoid forums because I see discussion boards end up as mud slinging one-up-manship.

    In the most simplified of terms, you think Sprint is being fair in letting SERO customers keep their plans, and while not letting them upgrade to the Pre on their plans, they can always elect this option if they so choose should they desire the device.

    My perspective, and I imagine of others who've posted on here is, if you have an unlimited plan of any kind (not just SERO) you should have the requirement to use the device. If Apple hadn't introduced the iPhone with their special plans (particularly the 2nd gen), we wouldn't be having this discussion. Only exception to that is Blackberry which has their Enterprise Service as an add on and which I agree is fair as it is an added service they provide.

    The point I think Look is trying to make is Sprint has had a horrible track record of making some major mistakes and this one in his view is just one more example of this decision to not allow ANY older data plans (not just SERO) in his opinion is such a blatant display of this decision making that he fully expects and will feel vindicated if / when Sprint goes under. Look, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on your view on this.

    While I don't agree with that assessment, I would say Sprint is making a mistake on this. Existing customers who have data (again, not just SERO) are going to be ticked at this plan change. The new minute tiers don't work for people and you're being asked to dump any great minute plans you have from even just a couple years ago. This along with the new hardware, new software, etc. etc. is enough to make people think twice not to mention the advent of the 3rd gen iPhone.

    Palm certainly would have sold more units had Sprint not placed this requirement, but ultimately, how many new users sign on to Sprint and whether the tide gets turned (we're talking 2-4 quarters after Pre's release) should be looked at as the scoreboard as to whether Sprint made the right call. I sincerely hope Palm sticks around long enough to see how that goes.
  3. #1023  
    I wonder if any of these Sero complainers would try to go to a bank feeling entitled to keep the same amazing low interest rates they locked in years ago on a mortgage for a new house today.

    I will say there is one thing I wish sprint would offer, and that is cheaper Everything Data plans with fewer minutes. I currently don't have a cell phone at all because all I had was a dumb phone and my bill had an average usage of 6 minutes a month. I figure with that little usage, I can get buy with skype and aim. The only thing I worry about now is car trouble. All I want is the data and maybe 50 minutes for talk.
  4. #1024  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrion88 View Post
    ...

    My perspective, and I imagine of others who've posted on here is, if you have an unlimited plan of any kind (not just SERO) you should have the requirement to use the device. If Apple hadn't introduced the iPhone with their special plans (particularly the 2nd gen), we wouldn't be having this discussion. Only exception to that is Blackberry which has their Enterprise Service as an add on and which I agree is fair as it is an added service they provide.
    That's not the way busines works (and even your BES is not a valid example). Let me give you an example on the first, and an explanation on the latter

    The government agency I work for is sending me to DC in early June (ironically, possibly at the time the Pre comes out). They are providing a hotel room for me. Single occupancy.

    When I took the job, the first thing my wife said to me was that if I have to go to DC, she wants to go too. So, she's coming along.

    The hotel will charge more because there are two of us in the room. It doesn't really cost them any more (my wife's pretty neat, I don't think the maid service will have to work that much longer). But that's the way business works.

    Not only that, the notion that the infrastructure is already there, and users aren't using anything extra is simply incorrect. Every device on the network uses additional resources. Once a cerain saturation point is reached, more infrastructure has to be built. That's business.

    Furthermore, the agreeement Sprint reached concerning the SERO plans was a contract for a certain amount of time. In most cases, Sprint has completed their end of the contract, but they continue to let users extend the plan. They are not obligated to do that. A new device that will likely use more bandwidth is a perfect opportunity to level that playing field.

    Again, just business.

    As for BES server, the company I just left ran our own BES. For the users that wanted that, they still had to pay extra. Sprint was not providing any extra service, I was (through my company). Not only that, but it's not unique to Sprint, so I'm sure it's some charge that RIM hits the vendor for, and they pass on. So, Blackberry charges a license to the company for BES, and then charges the carrier (who passes it on) again.

    Why in the world should they be allowed to "get away" with this? Simple, they came up with a concept that people felt was worth it, and they charge for it.

    Business.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darrion88 View Post
    ...The point I think Look is trying to make is Sprint has had a horrible track record of making some major mistakes and this one in his view is just one more example of this decision to not allow ANY older data plans (not just SERO) in his opinion is such a blatant display of this decision making that he fully expects and will feel vindicated if / when Sprint goes under. Look, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on your view on this.
    Yep, I think you're wrong. I think he's just an immature "I want mine" type person who is whining because he's not getting his way. His post made no logical sense. He didn't want to change because he has such a great plan, but he hopes the company that's giving him that great plan goes out of business because they won't extend it to the new devices?? Yeah, sounds like a real well thought out viewpoint - apparently to some. Not to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrion88 View Post
    ...While I don't agree with that assessment, I would say Sprint is making a mistake on this. Existing customers who have data (again, not just SERO) are going to be ticked at this plan change.
    Not all of them are. I'm not. I have a discontinued discount plan that I've convinced Sprint to continue for me in the past, and fully expect they won't for this. Others on here have indicated that they have SERO, and understand the need to move to the new plan. In my case, the money difference isn't as high as it is for the SERO users, but I think I'll be paying $20-$30 a month more.

    Maybe what I should be complaining about is why have I been a pay my bills customer for over 6 years, and some whining bozos who wish for the company to go under got a discount that I didn't?

    Just kidding, I understand. That's business.
  5. #1025  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    My my, getting a little personal there aren't you?

    Actually, I was being neither. I realized that you were making an idiotic statement, and wanted to point it out.

    I realize you don't like it, but that's life...
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you've been deliberately obtuse. If that's not the case and you really are just hopelessly incapable of comprehensive analysis of the written word, just let me know and I'll talk more slower.

    You're right, I never objected (truth be told, I never even noticed, but hey, don't want to bruise that tender ego...
    I have no patience for someone whose rhetorical toolkit contains wrenches like deliberately misinterpreting a single sentence out of an entire line of reason and dismissing the entire argument based on that. But now I'm stuck on addressing the sideshow you started, which is probably a tactic you've learned to rely on when you don't trust your logic to stand on its merits.

    but my reaction would have been the same had I noticed). I didn't object because you're 100% right (on that point), I don't know what their costs are. Where you're wrong is your assertion that I said they've lost money on their SERO plans. I didn't say that.
    You're right, you didn't; I was conflating your posts with one of prereferee's.

    However, when a company loses money in general, it's usually a pretty safe bet that their lowest priced offerings are not turning a profit. Not guaranteeing it, just making a guess here...
    Might as well throw darts at a dartboard blindfolded. There's too many variables in the calculus and too much data to which we will never be privy. Indeed, the formulae and data used to structure pricing and plans are surely closely held industry secrets. The amortization, maintenance and theta of infrastructure are even more obfuscated for anyone outside of a small niche of high-level accountants and analysts.

    The fact they offered SERO at all to begin with, then offered it to the general public and then allowed it to continue growing for years tells me Sprint made very informed decisions every step of the way using live data. SERO is either directly profitable or includes a market share variable or other factors we cannot know about, including calculated risks.

    SERO customers have every right to feel they should be treated with every bit of respect and deference Sprint would show their $99/mo customers. No one has any right to make SERO customers feel inferior or tell us we're lesser customers based on their own assumptions (or perhaps it's a more primitive response of bitterness or inferiority).

    And if they do, great. If they don't those that have SERO plans will simply have to evaluate whether or not the plans they offer are a good deal. Personally, from what I've seen, they're still the best bet going. And, contrary to your hyberbolic and overstated certainties (see, we do agree on something) some folks on SERO (or other plans, like myself), have made the decision that the new phone is worth changing plans over.
    I was just this evening listening to Craig Moffett from Sanford C. Bernstein discussing how in wireless (specifically the all-you-can-eat prepaid arena) $50 is the new $100, and the shift has happened in about a year. If the contract subscriber market sees downward pressure toward the $50 range and Sprint can't make money today off $30 SERO plans, how will they survive in conditions where their $70 and $100 plans are made obsolete through uncompetitiveness?
  6. #1026  
    That was an awfully beautiful post, hparsons. Makes me wonder why people can't simply accept or reject an offer. You no likey?? Then just say... NO DEAL!

    No need to speculate as to what Palm should do, Sprint should do, SERO users should do, ATT, Apple, Blackberry, Verizon, etc.... just take the deal or don't. It's THAT simple!
  7. #1027  
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post
    I wonder if any of these Sero complainers would try to go to a bank feeling entitled to keep the same amazing low interest rates they locked in years ago on a mortgage for a new house today.
    If someone got an "amazing low interest rate" locked in at any time in human history that beats today's rates on a new house I'd love to hear about it.

    I will say there is one thing I wish sprint would offer, and that is cheaper Everything Data plans with fewer minutes. I currently don't have a cell phone at all because all I had was a dumb phone and my bill had an average usage of 6 minutes a month. I figure with that little usage, I can get buy with skype and aim. The only thing I worry about now is car trouble. All I want is the data and maybe 50 minutes for talk.
    You sound like the perfect candidate for a prepaid phone.
  8. #1028  
    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you've been deliberately obtuse. If that's not the case and you really are just hopelessly incapable of comprehensive analysis of the written word, just let me know and I'll talk more slower.
    I guess it is I that will have to "talk more slower" (where DID you learn English - with all of those big words, I expected better).

    I thought your entire post was stupid. I replied appropriately.

    Clear 'nuff?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    I have no patience for someone whose rhetorical toolkit contains wrenches like deliberately misinterpreting a single sentence out of an entire line of reason and dismissing the entire argument based on that.

    Hmmm, could have sworn I quoted several responses. Better go back and check, you've made mistakes in other areas y'know.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    The fact they offered SERO at all to begin with, then offered it to the general public and then allowed it to continue growing for years tells me Sprint made very informed decisions every step of the way using live data. SERO is either directly profitable or includes a market share variable or other factors we cannot know about, including calculated risks.
    See, we do agree on something. My suspicion is that it was a loss leader. I further suspect that Sprint, who has been losing money, has decided to cut back on loss-leader programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    SERO customers have every right to feel they should be treated with every bit of respect and deference Sprint would show their $99/mo customers. No one has any right to make SERO customers feel inferior or tell us we're lesser customers based on their own assumptions (or perhaps it's a more primitive response of bitterness or inferiority).
    No quibble with that one. Requiring a new plan is not showing you disrespect. And speaking of "primitive responses", how is your posterior doing? I chose to attack your argument, you chose to attack me. Yet I'm somehow supposed to feel bad.

    Not gonna happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    If the contract subscriber market sees downward pressure toward the $50 range and Sprint can't make money today off $30 SERO plans, how will they survive in conditions where their $70 and $100 plans are made obsolete through uncompetitiveness?

    The hole in your argument is that theirs appears to be about the cheapest plan on the market. Thus, they are still competitive.

    See how much more civil things can be when you make a reasonable argument, even one with which I disagree?
  9. #1029  
    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    The fact they offered SERO at all to begin with, then offered it to the general public and then allowed it to continue growing for years tells me Sprint made very informed decisions every step of the way using live data. SERO is either directly profitable or includes a market share variable or other factors we cannot know about, including calculated risks.
    Offered means past tense. They offered it, because they were making a profit of the plan. Now with a market crash, the Federal Reserve printing money outta thin air, which in turn causes inflation... who knows how much profit/loss they're seeing on each plan. I'd be willing to *GUESS* that on average, they're just doing better than breaking even on all SERO plans... and that's not very smart for a for-profit business to not be turning much of a profit. When the rest of the industry is moving people toward more expensive monthly plans, you must follow suit. Sprint is only doing what they MUST do. It'd be great if Sprint was making the first moves, but their only option now is to mimic the actions of those in the lead. It's like a chess game, and putting so much attention to your pawns when the other guy's pretty close to putting your king in check will lead to a quick defeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    SERO customers have every right to feel they should be treated with every bit of respect and deference Sprint would show their $99/mo customers. No one has any right to make SERO customers feel inferior or tell us we're lesser customers based on their own assumptions (or perhaps it's a more primitive response of bitterness or inferiority).

    I was just this evening listening to Craig Moffett from Sanford C. Bernstein discussing how in wireless (specifically the all-you-can-eat prepaid arena) $50 is the new $100, and the shift has happened in about a year. If the contract subscriber market sees downward pressure toward the $50 range and Sprint can't make money today off $30 SERO plans, how will they survive in conditions where their $70 and $100 plans are made obsolete through uncompetitiveness?
    You have no idea how the real world works, do you? You do not have a business-sense mind at a minimum, that's for sure.
  10. #1030  
    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    ...
    I merely think it's a poor business decision to exclude legacy plan-holders from ongoing business.
    They're not.
  11. #1031  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    They're not.
    Not for Sprint. SERO users are unlikely to go anywhere else. It's not great for Palm though.

    There are also those people who think "well, if I'm going to pay $60-70 a month for a phone I might as well look at the iPhone".
  12. #1032  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric1285 View Post
    Not for Sprint. SERO users are unlikely to go anywhere else.
    Not exactly. The current trend is for people, when faced with price increases on monthly plans, to often go to prepaid.

    I do not think Sprint has a responsibility to give SERO customers access to Pre, but Sprint does make money off of SERO, would be damaged by the loss of those SERO customers, and knows that they are certainly at risk for churn, specifically to prepaid by other carriers.

    They probably have done their analysis. so for the Sero issue f they figure they can convert 10% of sero customers up to an Everything plan with the Pre, but lose 5% who are ticked off that thy can't get it, then disallowing Pre with SERO makes sense.
    If the model works profitably they will use it on future smartphones as well.
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    #1033  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I'm not sure what you're talking about, in the $69.99 iPhone 3G plan you get 450 minutes and unlimited internet but 0 texts. For 200 texts it's an additional $5, for 1500 texts its $15, and unlimited is $20. Maybe it's my age bracket, but I don't know anyone who uses less than 200 texts a month.
    You don't know me, but I used 15 texts last month. That's about average for me. Yes, I'm not a twenty-something, I'm 45. I can't imagine using 1500 texts per month - that's 50 per day! 450 minutes is way too many for me as well. My ideal plan would be 200 minutes (rarely do I exceed that), 100 texts (just so I never worry about it), unlimited data, for 29.99. Sadly I don't expect Sprint to offer that. But I wish they'd offer something at a cheaper level than what I see them offering - I *really* don't want to blow $70/month on phone service.
  14. #1034  
    I think you can only grandfather things along for so long. I remember a time when TDMA went by the wayside and AT&T (aka comcast) switched over to gsm. I was a long time customer as was my mom, and I fought tooth and nail to maintain the plans. I wasn't successful, but I did manage to get my mom's plan grandfathered in. I actually ditched them and went to Sprint, but back then there were far less features to compare in plan costs. I have zero animosity with SERO. Got my mom on it. The only things I pay for are new phones. The company foots the bill for service. So I'm all for people trying to maintain their cheap plans. It's just the extend of complaining, the scathing attitude towards Sprint, and the endless waste of thread space on the topic. Seriously, a petition thread? I hope every SERO person manages to carry it over to the Pre. Why should any of us care if they do or don't?

    And grndslm (and anyone else discussing the topic)? Wow, you really think Sprint needs to take into account the economy and national debt when planning out their pricing structure? Just wow. If the economy has certain people in such a financial crunch, why would they even be entertaining buying a Pre? There is nothing about the Pre that says "necessity" in any way, shape or form.

    And I agree with Aero. I'm sure the number of SERO customers that convert to an SE plan for the Pre will outnumber the ones that are disgruntled enough to leave Sprint and spend more elsewhere. I'll take less customers that are more profitable over more customers that are less profitable any day.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriminalEnterprise View Post
    No. I feel the same way you do when it comes to my own relationship with Sprint. I don't demand anything of them. I merely think it's a poor business decision to exclude legacy plan-holders from ongoing business.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  15. #1035  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    On-topic issue is that Sprint will see no negative side-effects of disallowing SERO customers to keep their plan with a Pre.
    Exactly. If someone cares so much about there sero, it's because they want the best deal possible. Even without sero, sprint has the best deal possible. If they loose any customers it will only be thorough blind emotional reactions that end up costing them more in the long run.

    Personally I think the everything plans are brilliant. I was talking to my mother about her plan and it sounded like she had over 10 addons just to use the features of her phone. One plan and you get everything your phone can do is simple and works.
  16. #1036  
    Quote Originally Posted by asforme View Post

    Personally I think the everything plans are brilliant. I was talking to my mother about her plan and it sounded like she had over 10 addons just to use the features of her phone. One plan and you get everything your phone can do is simple and works.
    A lot of times having several add-ons to a small plan is cheaper than an everything plan. And many times those add-ons were basically rewards for staying with Sprint over the years.

    For Sprint to suddenly turn into a massive Indian giver and ostracize customers, treating them like red headed step children, for accepting their gifts for being loyal long-term customers is obtuse and fool-hearty.
  17. #1037  
    so we're all pretty much in agreement that it will require a sep or business data plan right??
  18. #1038  
    Quote Originally Posted by richcracker View Post
    so we're all pretty much in agreement that it will require a sep or business data plan right??
    At least initially, it certainly appears so. Now it's just a matter of seeing how the policy works out for them and whether they make any exceptions / reverse policy. I've read others state they've come across instances where some were able to get the Instinct with their old plans but haven't found any confirmation of this.

    I'd also guess Sprint will have a little something extra for anyone willing to jump from their old plans to an EP. It's just a theory, but I certainly see this being a question asked of CS quite a bit this summer.
  19. #1039  
    So I talked to someone higher up in the corporate food chain at Sprint today and learned some interesting things.

    Before EVDO, the plans were called Vision and worked with 1XRT data phones. When EVDO was launched and phones with EVDO came out, it was never meant to work with an old 1XRT Vision plan, it was supposed to only work on the new Power Vision plan. Due to an internal system glitch Sprint CSR's were able to add phones like the Palm 700p on a Vision plan and EVDO would continue to work. Now Sprint is cracking down on the practice of EVDO phones being added to old 1XRT plans and getting EVDO free. This brings us to some of the changes we are seeing now with some of the Blackberrys and the Instinct phones. This is all done through billing codes.

    It is believed through the Sprint rep that the Pre will follow this logic but that doesn't mean you need a Simply Everything plan as many of you know. You just wont be able to activate a Pre unless you have some sort of Everything Data plan. Some of the reasoning for not requiring a SE plan brought up by the Sprint rep was because this would create issues for people with shared lines.

    So the main issue has to do with 1XRT data plans, does this mean you could get away without getting a Everything Data plan if you had an unlimited Power Vision plan? The following is my speculation based on a lengthy conversation I had. I think you should be able to, but it's gonna take the right CSR who is willing to do this and knows how to be creative with billing codes.

    Sorry to end this on a sour note but the other bit of info I have to share is be prepared to see freebies disappear. If you ever got any on your account like free Nights and Weekends. They were never intended to be free forever and since they were never in the original contract they can be taken away anytime without violating the original terms.
  20. #1040  
    Free nights and weekends are part of the SERO contract, as is EVDO Powervision Data. So it sounds like SERO might be ok if this is true.

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