View Poll Results: How will the availability of SERO affect your decision to purchase a Pre?

Voters
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  • I have SERO & will purchase the Pre even if I can't keep my SERO plan

    9 6.92%
  • I have SERO & will not purchase the Pre if I can't keep my SERO plan

    48 36.92%
  • I don't have SERO but if it's not available with the Pre, I may not purchase it

    2 1.54%
  • I don't have SERO and am not concerned about its availability with the Pre

    44 33.85%
  • I just don't care

    13 10.00%
  • What's SERO?

    14 10.77%
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  1. #941  
    I don't know how strict things are now but I do have a few lines on a plan where not all phones have data. Only my Treo Pro has data but all the others have voice and messaging only. Since this is a 1500 messaging plan for 99.99 I just added a $15 data pack for my Treo Pro. All the other lines just have minutes and messaging. If you strictly want minutes only the only shared plan below 1500 is the 700 minute $69.99 plan. For some like me 700 minutes is too little so I ended up paying $99.99 for the 1500 minute plan which includes two lines and unlimited messaging. All extra lines are $9.99 and you can add data a la carte for each line.
    Phone history with Sprint since April 2001: Kyocera QCP-2035, LG Touchpoint 1100, Samsung i500, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Treo 755p, HTC Mogul, Blackberry 8830, Samsung A900M, Motorola ic902, Blackberry Curve 8330, Samsung Instinct, HTC Touch, Treo 800w, Touch Diamond, Touch Pro, Motorola i9, Treo Pro (personal)/Iphone 3G 16GB (gone to make room for Pre), Palm Pre, blackberry tour, iPhone 3GS 32GB
  2. #942  
    how to clone? is it legal?
  3. #943  
    Thanks everyone for the great information!
  4. #944  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric1285 View Post
    ...
    Would it make you feel better if I called it a rip off? Certainly I am entitled to that opinion, am I not? I wish Sprint would make an unsubsidized version of the phone available for SERO users, but it doesn't look like that's happening. I'm willing to pay more for the Pre, but not to the tune of 100% more.
    ...
    No, because it isn't a "rip off". Unless you redefine "rip off" as "doing something Eric doesn't like".

    You've got a great deal. That doesn't mean that by not giving you the great deal on another device is gouging, or a rip off, or any of that other nonsense you guys keep whining about.

    Nothing wrong at all with saying you'd like it. Acting as if the company is doing something wrong (gouging) or dishonest (ripping you off) is just an example of petulant folks whining that they're not getting their way.
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    #945  
    Quote Originally Posted by pufftissue View Post
    how to clone? is it legal?
    It will probably be a month or two before the right tools come out to do cloning.

    Technically cloning is illegal. However, when you are not doing it for fraudulent purposes, there's little-to-no chance that Sprint will notice, much less care.
  6. #946  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric1285 View Post
    Would it make you feel better if I called it a rip off? Certainly I am entitled to that opinion, am I not?
    Folks are entitled to their own opinions. They're not entitled to their own facts.
  7. #947  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbm85 View Post
    ...Technically cloning is illegal. However, when you are not doing it for fraudulent purposes, there's little-to-no chance that Sprint will notice, much less care.
    So, Sprint says (in theory here) that using XYZ device on their network is not allowed using an older plan. A user then modifies one of the new devices to appear is if it's an older device so he can use it on the plan that Sprint has forbidden it on.

    And that's not fraud??? Wow, you guys are a hoot!!
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    #948  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, Sprint says (in theory here) that using XYZ device on their network is not allowed using an older plan. A user then modifies one of the new devices to appear is if it's an older device so he can use it on the plan that Sprint has forbidden it on.

    And that's not fraud??? Wow, you guys are a hoot!!
    I think at this point we're splitting hairs.

    In my previous post, I meant "fraud" as programming a device to use someone else's serial number so you can make free calls at their expense.

    Is the hypothetical situation of cloning a TP serial number to a Pre in order to circumvent an arbitrary restriction technically or legally considered fraud? Yes. Is it ethically wrong? That's an opinion. My opinion is no. Your opinion is (apparently) yes. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I haven't resorted to making sarcastic comments, and I'd appreciate the same respect from you.

    Personally I think it would be unethical to require a 133% hike in service price for a device that doesn't cost Sprint any more or less to service than my current phone. I do, however, understand that it is their right to do what they want with their network. I also understand that you see things differently, and I respect your views.
  9. #949  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    No, because it isn't a "rip off". Unless you redefine "rip off" as "doing something Eric doesn't like".

    You've got a great deal. That doesn't mean that by not giving you the great deal on another device is gouging, or a rip off, or any of that other nonsense you guys keep whining about.

    Nothing wrong at all with saying you'd like it. Acting as if the company is doing something wrong (gouging) or dishonest (ripping you off) is just an example of petulant folks whining that they're not getting their way.
    When did I say Sprint was doing anything wrong? I think you have misinterpreted my statements. I am certainly entitled to believe that the Simply Everything plans are a rip off, seeing as they offer nothing in addition to my current plan yet cost twice as much. Heck, it's in Sprint's best interest to rip people off. As a shareholder I would be pretty upset if they didn't try to get the maximum amount of money out of each customer.

    You need to take it easy and understand that people (at least in this country) are entitled to their opinions and are free to express them.
  10. #950  
    Seems sort of like the cable companies double-charging for internet and cable tv. There's no technical difference. One cable line, and you get all the services by default.
  11. #951  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbm85 View Post
    I think at this point we're splitting hairs.

    In my previous post, I meant "fraud" as programming a device to use someone else's serial number so you can make free calls at their expense.

    Is the hypothetical situation of cloning a TP serial number to a Pre in order to circumvent an arbitrary restriction technically or legally considered fraud? Yes. Is it ethically wrong? That's an opinion. My opinion is no. Your opinion is (apparently) yes. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I haven't resorted to making sarcastic comments, and I'd appreciate the same respect from you.

    Personally I think it would be unethical to require a 133% hike in service price for a device that doesn't cost Sprint any more or less to service than my current phone. I do, however, understand that it is their right to do what they want with their network. I also understand that you see things differently, and I respect your views.
    Everyone who does something wrong justifies it. The simple fact is that you are talking about using another entity's service in violation of the way they are intending to use it.

    And your nonsense about requiring a 133% hike in service is just that, nonsense. You got a "special". The special is ending.

    It's not the people that want that "special" that I find obnoxious on here. It's those that demand it, act as if they have it coming, complain that they're somehow being cheated, and then justify their fraudulent behavior when the engage in it.

    What I'm saying is, I don't respect your views, and there was no sarcasm in my post. I summarized what you said. What you are talking about is illegal. Not just "technically" illegal, and it is fraudulent. It's also a violation of the agreement you entered into with Sprint.
  12. gbm85's Avatar
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    #952  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Everyone who does something wrong justifies it. The simple fact is that you are talking about using another entity's service in violation of the way they are intending to use it.

    And your nonsense about requiring a 133% hike in service is just that, nonsense. You got a "special". The special is ending.

    It's not the people that want that "special" that I find obnoxious on here. It's those that demand it, act as if they have it coming, complain that they're somehow being cheated, and then justify their fraudulent behavior when the engage in it.

    What I'm saying is, I don't respect your views, and there was no sarcasm in my post. I summarized what you said. What you are talking about is illegal. Not just "technically" illegal, and it is fraudulent. It's also a violation of the agreement you entered into with Sprint.
    Saying that it is wrong is just stating your opinion. Neither of us is right. Opinions are never correct or incorrect.

    SERO was not a special. It was a regular service plan for friends and family of Sprint employees. Requiring an Everything Data plan is a 133% price hike, no matter how you cut the cake. That's a fact. You may think it's "nonesense" to be upset about it, and you have a point. But it's still a required price hike.

    I'm not demanding anything. I have not once demanded to get a Pre on SERO, nor have I complained about the (possible) requirement. I have not said that I feel cheated. I feel that cloning my current serial number is justified. You do not. This is, again, a difference of opinion and arguing it is pointless because neither of us can prove that we are "right".

    I hope that you can come to a point in your life when you can respect the opinions of people who disagree with you. I never said what I planned to do was legal, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that point. I also never argued that it was not fraudulent. It may be a violation of my agreement. I'm really not sure. Even if it is, I still have no qualms about doing it.
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    #953  
    Quote Originally Posted by pufftissue View Post
    Seems sort of like the cable companies double-charging for internet and cable tv. There's no technical difference. One cable line, and you get all the services by default.
    That analogy doesn't work, though, because they are different services. They have to pay fees to carry cable channels, so if they give it away for free, they are losing money. Internet also costs them money to deliver.

    A more apt analogy would be the cable company charging you more money when you switch to a different TV. They are delivering the same service as before, and charging more money for it even though their costs are the same and nothing changes on their end.
  14. #954  
    gbm, you have an opinion, but I hate to say it, your opinion is wrong in terms of legality, and you have admitted as such noting yourself it is "technically illegal". If you feel choosing to get a new phone but avoid a new rate is worth a potential legal penalty, enjoy. Also I can see this ending a different way for you. Sprint cancelling your contract entirely, you losing the ability to have the Pre on their network and having to get a different phone on a different network at a higher price. Their network, their rules and this doesn't strike me as unfair because they still have the lowest prices and they aren't forcing anyone to do anything.

    Prices change. Expecting to keep SERO rates in perpetuity is simply an untenable position. But they are letting you, unless you want their new flagship hardware. Sprint has costs and investors it needs to please, like it or not.

    You may be right about them not caring about individual customers taking the action you propose, you may be wrong. Either way, acting like it is justified and them claiming people need to understand your point of view as potentially correct is just 10 levels of arrogance. Technically illegal is still illegal. You might not like the law, you might not like the terms of the contract, but they are what they are. Take them or leave them.
  15. #955  
    Quote Originally Posted by prereferee View Post
    Promotional rates don't last forever old prices don't last forever. Prices change over time. Milk doesn't cost the same it did even a few years ago. Phone service either. It only seems so major because you had old contracts that they aren't canceling or changing.
    SERO plans were available nine months ago. CPI stats from the BLS show a nominal inflation of less than one percent in that timeframe. We're not talking about Hershey's 1930 nickel bars here.

    Feel betrayed and pissed off about a new price for what is seemingly the same service, but they aren't forcing anything on anyone.

    Which would **** people off more, Sprint forcing this change on all existing customers with data plans or Sprint letting people choose to make the switch if you want one of their landmark phones? We both know the answer to this, neither option is popular but people prefer to have the choice.
    A "landmark phone" like the Instinct?

    The Pre requiring a premium plan will not sell any better than the Instinct (and why haven't they released the sales figures for that?) even if it can significantly undercut iPhone and Blackberry offerings in price.

    Sprint can't sustain current rates
    You don't know this.

    Even though the cellphone service market is essentially a differentiated oligopoly, the laws of economics still apply.
    Yes, and get ready for some healthy creative destruction. First Palm and then Sprint. Both will very likely cease to exist as independent companies within the next five years. Palm probably won't make it 18 months.

    Sprint essentially needs to come back to terms with the financial mistakes of its past. Included in that are rates that are simply below sustainable for the company.
    Again, you cannot know the calculus.

    They force the change, people can freely jump ship and likely would even if the rate jumps were smaller than comparable plans elsewhere. They make the change dependent on you buying a new phone, they make people unhappy but the decision is the customers.
    Like Sprint needs to deliberately tilt the customer toward leaving them.

    $70/mo for an iPhone or $70/mo for SomethingElse and everyone with a heart chooses the iPhone every time. Period.
  16. #956  
    wow...Eric is a cheap schmuck and gbm is a criminal. a match made in heaven. Sounds like I wouldn't want either as a customer.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
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    #957  
    I guess I will have to be the one here to say that I'm "not right." Because opinions can be right, as you two have demonstrated.
  18. #958  
    you can try and justify your "ethics" any way you like. Just because you believe something to be wrong and unfair doesn't give you the right to commit fraud in order to circumvent it.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  19. #959  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    you can try and justify your "ethics" any way you like. Just because you believe something to be wrong and unfair doesn't give you the right to commit fraud in order to circumvent it.
    I guess you've never sped before in your life.
  20. #960  
    Hope all the Sero haters are getting that "warm fuzzy I told you so" feeling in their bellies. Click on this- Inside Sprint Now
    Signs greatly pointing to Ep'e no Pre'e. Translation no ticky no shirty.

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