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  1.    #1  
    I'm a new member to the treocentral forums, and I'm eagerly awaiting the Treo 700p, mainly for it's EV-DO and other Sprint capabilities.

    Unfortunately, my area (65203) does not yet have EV-DO, I am directly in-between St. Louis and Kansas City, both of with are covered with EV-DO.

    Would anyone here know about Sprint's plan to make EV-DO available in mid-sized market area like mine, and maybe how often they increase their EV-DO coverage area?

    Thanks for anything.
  2. #2  
    Sprint recently updated the EVDO maps to show future coverage that is to be delivered by the end of this year. If it's not on the schedule for this year, it will happen next year as they've said 100% of the voice network will be EVDO by end of 2007.

    http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...Coverage2.jsp?
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  3. #3  
    Stick with Sprint...its worth the wait.
    Last edited by KStewart; 04/10/2006 at 10:43 PM.
    at&t iPhone3G
  4. #4  
    It appears Verizon's EV-DO network is still the most robust one out there. According to today's DSLReports "Fastest" summary page, Verizon leads in both throughput and latency. Here's a screenshot of the report.
  5. #5  
    ^It depends on how many 1xRTT devices are testing on the site. It compiles those results as well. And Sprint is in far more markets with EVDO than Verizon.

    Here are comparisons of Sprint/Verizon EVDO...
    http://www.evdoforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1235
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  6. #6  
    I have not found a reliable source for this info. Reporters from the CES in Vegas this january wrote on the issue. Verizon was claiming 150-180 markets but when asked for a list of places they could go test for their articles, the list contained only 60 areas. Cingular only had 20 at the time tho now I saw something that it was up to 51 as of march 1st. Sprint was reported to be soemwhere in the middle....again back in january.

    I live in the 22nd largest county population wise in the US (http://www.census.gov/population/www...00/phc-t4.html) and the only Broadband coverage we have is EDGE. So if they going for the largest population areas, ya think they would have gotten to No. 22 by now.

    The problem is that not only are the carriers sketchy about where they cover, what they consider "coverage" is another matter. What constitutes coverage in an area ? 1 tower outta 100 being upgraded ....5, 10, 50 ? That's why I been following the test comparisons in PC mag and in other trade jourmals cause if the carriers are saying "Oh yeah, you can go and test our product in any of these 60 markets, then I feel pretty sure that they have full or near full coverage in that area. If they gonna use crayon on a map but tell the journalists they can't go test there, then to my mind they don't have adequate coverage.
  7. #7  
    Here is a list based on Census Bureau markets, not carrier defined markets...
    http://www.evdoforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1841

    It is clear that Sprint is in more distinct markets, especially between 400K-1M. Verizon is still missing in a couple 1M+ markets while Sprint is in all of them.

    s v c 997,197 Salt Lake City, UT MSA
    s v . 896,202 Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT MSA
    s . . 896,019 Honolulu, HI MSA
    s . . 881,221 Tucson, AZ MSA
    s . c# 877,909 Tulsa, OK MSA
    s v a 859,126 Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA
    s v . 846,710 Dayton, OH MSA
    s v . 835,657 New Haven-Milford, CT MSA
    . . . 835,582 Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY MSA
    . . . 834,632 Fresno, CA MSA
    s . . 784,463 Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA MSA
    s v . 783,920 Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA MSA
    s v . 770,321 Worcester, MA MSA
    s . . 758,082 Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ MSA
    s . . 757,848 Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI MSA
    . . . 753,988 Albuquerque, NM MSA
    . v . 716,817 Baton Rouge, LA MSA
    s v a 700,267 Akron, OH MSA
    . . . 697,562 El Paso, TX MSA
    . . . 694,059 Bakersfield, CA MSA
    s v . 684,236 Springfield, MA MSA
    . . . 664,229 Columbia, SC MSA
    s . . 659,515 Toledo, OH MSA
    s . . 657,932 Greensboro-High Point, NC MSA
    . v . 653,497 Syracuse, NY MSA
    . . . 644,525 Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY MSA
    s v . 629,975 Knoxville, TN MSA
    s v a 622,847 Little Rock-North Little Rock, AR MSA
    s . c# 620,136 Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice, FL MSA
    s . . 614,474 McAllen-Edinburg-Pharr, TX MSA
    . v* . 614,302 Stockton, CA MSA (*reporeted by jarredduq)
    s . c# 596,340 Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA MSA
    s . . 581,379 Wichita, KS MSA
    . . . 574,939 Greenville, SC MSA
    s v . 565,404 Colorado Springs, CO MSA
    . . . 562,666 Charleston-North Charleston, SC MSA
    . . . 553,155 Scranton--Wilkes-Barre, PA MSA
    s v . 519,603 Madison, WI MSA
    . . . 514,552 Harrisburg-Carlisle, PA MSA
    . . . 507,176 Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC MSA
    . . . 505,508 Jackson, MS MSA
    s . . 500,553 Portland-South Portland, ME MSA
    s . . 498,721 Lakeland-Winter Haven, FL MSA
    s . . 498,094 Boise City-Nampa, ID MSA
    s . . 497,253 Des Moines, IA MSA
    s . . 495,576 Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville, FL MSA
    s . . 482,667 Chattanooga, TN-GA MSA
    . . . 482,440 Modesto, CA MSA
    s . . 478,561 Lancaster, PA MSA
    s . . 475,639 Cape Coral-Fort Myers, FL MSA
    s v . 468,386 Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA MSA
    s v . 460,771 Ogden-Clearfield, UT MSA
    s . . 459,435 Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach, FL MSA
    s . a 453,620 Lansing-East Lansing, MI MSA
    s v . 445,160 Durham, NC MSA
    s . . 441,423 Flint, MI MSA
    s . . 433,980 Winston-Salem, NC MSA
    . . . 427,506 Spokane, WA MSA
    . . . 424,484 Pensacola-Ferry Pass-Brent, FL MSA
    s . . 416,383 Lexington-Fayette, KY MSA
    . . . 413,408 Salinas, CA MSA
    s v . 411,072 Vallejo-Fairfield, CA MSA
    s v . 407,106 Canton-Massillon, OH MSA
    s . . 405,116 Corpus Christi, TX MSA

    Looks like Sprint has much of Long Island covered but the rest is marked as 'future', which is to be rolled out by end of year.
    http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...20Island,%20Ny
    Last edited by xenophonite; 04/17/2006 at 04:15 PM.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    ^It depends on how many 1xRTT devices are testing on the site. It compiles those results as well. And Sprint is in far more markets with EVDO than Verizon.

    Here are comparisons of Sprint/Verizon EVDO...
    http://www.evdoforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1235
    Are you then also inferring that Verizon, by default, has many more EVDO devices in use than Sprint in those tests? Since Verizon has more samples than Sprint (makes sense, more customers = more samples), each 1xRTT sample would lower their average speed so additional EVDO samples would be required to overcome the shortfall - probably on the order of 3 x EVDO sample for each 1xRTT sample.

    The real bottom line I derive from the summary is Verizon's network has greater average throughput: The large numbers of samples essentially guarantees a representative sampling and the higher average rate by Verizon shows their customers, on average, are able to receive their data faster than Sprint customers, by a small (4+ kbps) margin.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe

    The real bottom line I derive from the summary is Verizon's network has greater average throughput:
    Look at it today. Sprint is slightly leading at the moment even if factoring 1xRTT entries.
    http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?domains=1

    Another more thorough report is here....
    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/spcsdns.net (Sprint)
    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/myvzw.com (Verizon)

    Quite a few more users are getting >1Mbps on Sprint.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    Here is a list based on Census Bureau markets, not carrier defined markets...
    I have seen the list. the problem I have with their list is that "coverage" is not defined. What does coverage mean ? They upgraded 100% of the towers in this area ? .... 50 % ? ...... 20% ? ...... 1 tower ?

    If they have so many coverage areas, why won't they give this same list to journalists who are gonna go out, test and write articles on how well the service performs ? If they are gonna limit the journalists to testing in 50 areas, then to my mind they have no confidence in their coverage in the other 130 areas they are "claiming" coverage in. Last independent test I saw was from January 2006. In that article, testers were given 60 verizon areas for EVDO, 20 cingular areas for HSDPA and Sprint did not provide any areas for testing though they indicated coverage somewhere between CNG and verizon. I don't have access to the machine with the link stored in bookmarks with the article.

    Looks like Sprint has much of Long Island covered but the rest is marked as 'future', which is to be rolled out by end of year.
    Right now I have to travel 2 miles from my house just to get a phone signal on Sprint. Of course, according to the coverage maps I have full coverage. If I was to do a CDMA Treo w/ EVDO it would have to be Verizon. Although I haven't needed to use it in a year and 3 days now, my backup phone is a verizon phone and it gets signal about 80% of the time.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    Look at it today. Sprint is slightly leading at the moment even if factoring 1xRTT entries.
    Yet it still has a 30% greater latency. There's something flakey with that network.
    Quite a few more users are getting >1Mbps on Sprint.
    It really doesn't matter if a small percentage of the users get > 1mbps when the average, network-wide throughput is much lower. Average network throughput and actual coverage are the key. I use both providers and here in the DC area Sprint's EVDO coverage is skeletal - if you get off the main roads you drop out of EVDO coverage. Verizon, on the other hand, is pervasive throughout the region until you get well out into the fringes - far beyond where Sprint drops out (even voice).

    The story is the same in Dallas, Denver, Orlando, and (ironically) Kansas City - places I travel to frequently: Sprint is thinly spread and unreliable while Verizon is just plain available. THAT'S what claimed coverage should be, not a couple of towers plunked down in a region accessible by a small percentage of a market.
  12. #12  
    Latency is not reported correctly by the mspeed test. The actually latency for EVDO is 150ms-400ms for both Sprint/Verizon and it will depend on distance/obstructions to tower. Ping tests are a better way to test latency. Most users on evdoforums.com are reporting ping times in that range. I typically average 200ms on both Sprint and Verizon laptop cards.

    On coverage, the Sprint EVDO maps have been validated by many users on evdoforums.com to be actually too conservative... that EVDO is greater than what the maps indicate. Typically >75% of urbanized metros are covered . Verizon may have better EVDO coverage in some fringe areas. I'm talking EVDO coverage here, not voice.

    But Sprint EVDO is indeed in Omaha, Tulsa, to Chattannooga to smaller Florida cities to about 70 markets more (typically >75% of metro, not a 'couple of towers') and Verizon has zero presence. Then check out Sprint's future EVDO coverage, which will be completed end of this year. Verizon has challenges due to the 800mhz towers Verizon has in those markets. Verizon is rarely putting EVDO on 800mhz towers. Sprint's challenge is getting the affiliate markets on EVDO, which they claim will happen by end of 2007.

    Current Sprint EVDO is in orange, future EVDO is in yellow which is to be completed end of this year. Nearly entire network will supposedly be on Rev A by end of 2007.
    http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...doEnterZip.jsp

    Verizon EVDO may work better for you and that's cool. But those in Birmingham, OK City, Flint MI, Naples FL and 70+ other markets can only get Sprint EVDO.
    Last edited by xenophonite; 04/19/2006 at 10:25 AM.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  13. #13  
    A lot of words there, but none of which address my daily experience, with both systems, in the established markets I listed. Sprint's coverage maps a quite overinflated in those markets by first-hand experience. I also wouldn't call Verizon's particularly conservative (maybe even optimistic), but nowhere near as blatantly overinflated as Sprint's.
  14. #14  
    You are not getting Sprint EVDO in Omaha or Tulsa or other markets that Verizon is not in? Sounds like problems with your device.

    I have yet to see one user over on evdoforums (5000+ registered) state that Sprint's EVDO coverage maps are off, most are saying Sprint has EVDO coverage not shown on maps. I've traveled to about 20 metro areas with both Sprint and Verizon EVDO cards. Sprint really does have EVDO presence where they indicate, and in many cases it is 5-10 miles beyond what the maps indicate. It's likely even more in some markets now as they have begun the second phase rollout.

    What EVDO device do you use?
    Last edited by xenophonite; 04/20/2006 at 04:15 PM.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  15. #15  
    The question I can't get answered is if they have all this coverage, why aren't these 180 or whatever areas on the lists given out to journalists for testing ? Why were reporters from CES this January reporting that upon the release of the 700w, there would be 60 metro areas with EVDO from verizon and a lesser number from Sprint ?
  16. #16  
    ^Because they were wrong? The articles were based on information in November when Verizon did have greater EVDO coverage. Sprint passed them up in late January and according to RCR Wireless News, Sprint has been rolling out EVDO at covering 13m pops a week.

    There was a Feb PC World article about Sprint's limited EVDO coverage. The author later stated the info was gathered in November.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    Because they were wrong?
    The info came from the carriers themselves ! Many articles even noted the discrepancy between no. of claimed coverage spots and the ones "on the lists" they were given for testing....and coverage in even the "approved areas" was spotty.

    May be moot for us soon....our county is on the verge of rolling out "county wide" wifi using county buildings, ROW's, parks and other county owned facilities as transmitter / receiver locations.
  18. #18  
    All moot now, as EVDO Rel 0 is already so yesterday. Sprint's Rev A plans were announced last month...

    http://www2.sprint.com/mr/news_dtl.do?id=11040

    * Over half of U.S. population covered in first phase
    * 190 million coverage targeted by year-end '06
    * First-to-market Revision A migration plans for 2007 service
    * Devices available 3Q have CTIA Show preview


    It will be interesting to see how Verizon deals with most mid/smaller markets that have almost exclusive 800mhz towers, which do not have much capacity for DO. I suspect Verizon will attempt to be first to market but it will be interesting to see what % of the network has Rev A by end of next year. Sprint's plans are to have near 100% of network on Rev A by end of next year and it can be more easily accomplished due to all 1900mhz towers.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by xenophonite
    You are not getting Sprint EVDO in Omaha or Tulsa or other markets that Verizon is not in? Sounds like problems with your device.
    ...
    What EVDO device do you use?
    Did you happen to read my post? In addition to Northern, VA (like my profile says to the left there which is the Washington, DC area) I also said:
    The story is the same in Dallas, Denver, Orlando, and (ironically) Kansas City...
    I use the Verizon PC-5220 and the Sprint PC-5740 in addition to my Treo 700W and Samsung i730. I'm not sure how I can tell the Sprint device is bad if it works fine in areas with signal and doesn't work in areas without signal.
  20. #20  
    AvgKbps Samples Latency
    spcsdns.net 396 4514 0.8
    myvzw.com 360.5 5079 0.8

    http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?domains=1

    But this includes 1xRTT as well as EVDO samples. Latency calculation is incorrect as typical is 150ms-400ms, not ~1 second.
    Sprint Pre, Mugen 2800mah battery

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