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  1. bfremming's Avatar
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       #1  
    D-VHS is an older file format that came just prior to the Blu-Ray & HD/DVD format war. A few specific titles which have never been released on HD/HDX stream, or blu-ray, only exist on D-VHS. D-VHS is HD (digital) tape playback, although the cassettes are identical to standard VHS.

    Previously, I had no problems with playback between my VCR and a Sharp Aquos HDTV purchased in 2007. Now, with my new LG 65UH9500, although I can see settings and VCR programming information though the AV monitor on the TV (VCR setting button), there appears to be no way to communicate a D-VHS signal to the television. My D-VHS deck is rare, including an on-board ATSC tuner (no other model did). The tuner allows me to tune to over-the-air HD television stations are record them. I re-ran my D-VHS programming setup, and it clearly has registered all of my local channels (which are oddly numbered 32.1, 35.3, etc.)

    However, although I can see the VCR/D-VHS knows local area channels, it cannot output a HDTV Video signal (HD), D-Theater/D-VHS signal (HD), nor even a standard VHS signal (SD) to the TV. The D-VHS has HDMI and component outputs, and I have tried both - with the same results. In each case an alert pops up on my TV stating “No signal detected”. Note: this is a JVC D-VHS alert coming through the settings feedback to the TV, not the LG TV stating there isn’t a signal. Ultimately, the D-VHS is talking to the TV (at least the settings menu) but the video signal for programming isn't going through, which suggests there is a file format (or similar) that is unknown to the TV.

    I tried sending a message to LG customer service and they told me to come here. I tried contacting Sony (as the HDTV D-VHS interface format was originally developed between Sony, JVC, and Canon) – regarding whether they knew an answer, and they were similarly hopeless. I've been working on this issue, also, on a Cnet forum.

    To the best of my knowledge, the D-VHS communicated to televisions via a DV/HDV file format. I have a pretty cool collection and my player is still very valuable to collectors. I would love it if LG could run a firmware update or help me on some level regarding this issue. I’m completely stuck.
    Last edited by bfremming; 03/23/2017 at 10:17 AM.
  2. #2  
    LG sent you here? That's desperate!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-vhs - states an mpeg format.
    http://support.jvc.com/consumer/prod...3&archive=true

    So you have connected an aerial for OTA signal to the D-VHS and connected it to the TV via HDMI and used a VCR setting. You are seeing a video(?) image on the screen, but it is the On Screen Display of the D-VHS saying that there is no signal. Presumably the aerial loops though the D-VHS to the TV which CAN see all the channels.

    Firstly, are you sure the HDMI cable is good? Is there another modern TV you can test the VCR in?
    What country are you in and are all the devices designed to operate in that country?
    I don't know what you mean by , "cannot output a HDTV Video signal (HD)" I thought HDMI was the standard connection for HD - you have made that connection and are seeing a message from the VCR on the screen - this message must therefore be an HD signal. (unless it's a data message rendered by the TV) Can you playback pre-recorded video? What signal would the VCR expect from the TV? Control signals? Surely the only signal it needs is the OTA aerial input?
    Where is the over-the air signal applied to the recorder? Do you connect the aerial or are you attempting to record from the TV via the HDMI link? Wikipedia says something about needing a firewire input..? Trying to work out how you have tuned the VCR when you are getting this message. If you cannot see content, how do you know it is correctly tuned (also the odd channel numbers)?

    Random guesses:
    Perhaps the (older?) version of the HDMI spec is not supported by LG (doubtful - I expect it to all be backwards compatible).
    Perhaps the LG is choking on the unencrypted HD material (DRM?)
    Maybe it's failed to tune properly and is not receiving a signal (as the message states) or a weak one. Maybe the odd channel numbers are defaults?
    Also, if the LG has a VCR input, maybe consider that D-VHS is not an old analog, SD VCR & should maybe be set up as an HDMI input?
    Do you know the the HDMI port is capable of sending a signal from the TV to the VCR?
    Last edited by Preemptive; 03/24/2017 at 04:01 AM.
  3. #3  
    The player should be sending audio and video signal to the TV, not any kind of file format. Does it implement any kind of DRM predecessor to DHCP that maybe the TV doesn't support? I this US or international equipment?
  4. bfremming's Avatar
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       #4  
    Dear Preemptive,

    Thanks for your response. I wanted to add a quick reply - as there are a few things I'm meaning to check out before I add additional information.

    Firstly, know that I'm kind of a radio nut, and I'm well (self) educated in AV. As stated, this D-VHS/VCR machine has an on-board ATSC tuner (the only one ever made), the D-VHS is connected to an F-type coaxial cable delivering a signal from the roof (the OTA signal is fed to a Leviton splitter block in the attic/crawl space, to which I boost the signal from a dedicated coaxial wire in my family room; a down signal feeds the DVHS from the splitter block). Note, I've actually two dedicated OTA cables (for the living room) leading down from my OTA splitter block: one to a low wall panel - which is connected to the DVHS, and one to the high-wall-panel - which is connected to my high-mount TV. All of this explanation is superfluous, as the DVHS has already run its automated channel search, and I can see that that channels are registered in the HM-DT100U unit. Basically, there's no problem there.

    Previously, the DVHS unit was connected to a Sharp Aquos LC-32D62U (2007) and ran perfectly (albeit one could argue using imperfect technology). This previous TV was more-or-less from the same era as the DVHS (I still have it, but its wrapped up). A common misconception -and one that I think hasn't 'registered' which another chatter I've corresponded with, is that this ain't no standard VHS deck. What I mean by this, is that when the D-VHS was released, and specifically with relation to D-Theater tape-player units, the MPAA and associated film/cable industry was incredibly phobic of HD film duplication and piracy (they had no idea what was to come). As such (on a compliant unit), you could play a D-Theater tape, but you couldn't use the component or HDMI cable to run a signal to a secondary D-VHS unit and record onto a blank D-VHS tape. You'll have to remember, this was just before Blu-Ray & HD/DVD. Additionally, for those wishing to record HD cable broadcasts, there were only 1-2 cable boxes that could receive and output a signal over IE 1394 firewire... and virtually no televisions of that time that included a firewire output. If you owned one of the correct cable boxes (which cable companies hated registering to accounts) you could record HD broadcasts of popular movies off HBO and similar. However, you could never send a signal over HDMI (or component) from the D-VHS, to another D-VHS unit (I believe this is an important fact, and relevant to my query).

    Many of your suggestions - while germane - are ultimately moot. While I have the unit connected via 4K certified HDMI (virtually new) with a 60Hz refresh rate, were really talking about standard HDMI at 1080i; additionally, all 1.4 HDMI cables should be backwards compatible with standard 1.1 HDMI signals.


    So you have connected an aerial for OTA signal to the D-VHS and connected it to the TV via HDMI and used a VCR setting. You are seeing a video(?) image on the screen, but it is the On Screen Display of the D-VHS saying that there is no signal. Yes (but the direct connection to the TV is fine for HDTV, we’re only talking video out from the D-VHS here.

    Presumably the aerial loops though the D-VHS to the TV which CAN see all the channels.Yes.


    Firstly, are you sure the HDMI cable is good? Is there another modern TV you can test the VCR in? Yes, and Yes – as already known/tested, and as detailed above.

    What country are you in and are all the devices designed to operate in that country? Not germane, as explained above

    I don't know what you mean by , "cannot output a HDTV Video signal (HD)" I thought HDMI was the standard connection for HD (typically, but a digital video signal can be serviced by component (RGB) wiring – here I’m getting the same message if I connect via component). - you have made that connection and are seeing a message from the VCR on the screen - this message must therefore be an HD signal. (unless it's a data message rendered by the TVIt isn’t)

    Can you playback pre-recorded video?
    No, nor standard VHS at 480p, although that information would also (in this unit) be converted to a digital signal prior to output over HDMI or component RGB .

    What signal would the VCR expect from the TV? This is the real question, it really reads like a ‘handshake’ issue, although another commentator (on another forum) has assiduously insisted that only a video output signal would be sent by the DVHS – but as we have handshake (HDCP) processes with modern components (4K), his assessment doesn’t seem to be complete.

    Control signals? Surely the only signal it needs is the OTA aerial input? As stated, it has an ‘aerial’ OTA input and has registered OTA channels itself.

    Where is the over-the air signal applied to the recorder? Do you connect the aerial or are you attempting to record from the TV via the HDMI link? Answered.

    Wikipedia says something about needing a firewire input..? Answered, firewire is only needed for cable TV signals.

    Trying to work out how you have tuned the VCR when you are getting this message. If you cannot see content, how do you know it is correctly tuned (also the odd channel numbers)? By stating that the DVHS is tuned, I mean that I can read, or click through the channels on the DVHS (up and down channel rocker on the remote control). I stated the registration of the ‘correct’ odd channel numbers because – while I’m not able to see a broadcast picture, I can see that the DVHS has registered the correct stations…. It isn’t simply listing 2-3-4-5… (all stations); it is listing the correct digital channel subsets. The DVHS knows where the channels are, and probably/likely can record OTA television now, as is. However, at present, I’ll never be able to watch anything… All this stated, remember that the JVC HM-DT100U is the only D-VHS in existence (to my knowledge) that actually could do this. All other D-VHS unit actually would have required input of cable TV (or OTA TV?) via firewire for channel recognition. I don’t know whether other DVHS VCRS did/didn’t have an F-type coaxial connection, but if they did, I would guess that they would have only been NTSC (older school tuning, non-HD broadcast antenna signals). This DVHS actually has two F-Type coaxial connectors, one for NTSC and one for ATSC (as well as a coaxial antenna output for relay). Sure, I could/can use a relay, but as stated – this is irrelevant. I have no problems having a TV signal, and have a dedicated signal line to my TV anyway. However, seeing the digital display image (whatever the DVHS would be recording) would normally travel out on the HDMI or component lines, at least it did to my Sharp LC-32D62U.

    Random guesses:
    Perhaps the (older?) version of the HDMI spec is not supported by LG (doubtful - I expect it to all be backwards compatible).
    Not exactly... I would expect the problem to be based on the cabling, per se.

    Perhaps the LG is choking on the unencrypted HD material (DRM?) Yes, and this is what I am trying to figure out!

    Maybe it's failed to tune properly and is not receiving a signal (as the message states) or a weak one. Maybe the odd channel numbers are defaults? Nope, and that’s only one piece of the puzzle anyway, we’ve no picture for D-Theater tape playback, or even standard VHS tape playback.

    Also, if the LG has a VCR input, maybe consider that D-VHS is not an old analog, SD VCR & should maybe be set up as an HDMI input? This really wouldn’t solve anything, as I’m trying to get this DVHS running in order to play our D-Theater tapes (1080i).

    Of course, older VCRs didn’t even have RGB outputs – they only had standard composite video cable (single yellow). RGB component cabling came in as a mechanism of digital video output for DVDs. My guess is that the RGB signal (old VGA interface) should carry a digital signal on this unit (although generally speaking it’s a analog carrier), but that D-theater signals were required to be carried over the HDMI (to my memory and knowledge). When the D-VHS was introduced, my jumped the RGB interface that wasn’t included with my standard VHS machines – including the new HDTV input/output – HDMI.

    Due to the abundance of different components in my system, I only previously had the D-VHS connected via HDMI (to the Sharp television), and I know that I was previously running it through a non-HDCP 2.2.0-compliant switch.


    Do you know the the HDMI port is capable of sending a signal from the TV to the VCR? I’m not trying to do this, as stated; I’m only trying to send a signal to the TV. And yes, as stated, I very certain of the machine’s capacity to do this, albeit perhaps not with the LG (shake my head.)
  5. bfremming's Avatar
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       #5  
    It's definitely US equipment, fully functional, and previously used and cared for meticulously.
  6. kancept's Avatar
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    Do the LGs have an option to use older HDMI specs? Much like monitors do.
  7. bfremming's Avatar
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       #7  
    As most LG users might tell you, I found the product documentation for my television to be completely sub-par. This stated, I ultimately was able to adjust brightness, HDR, and soap-opera smoothing to create a preferred viewing experience. This wasn’t terribly easy to figure out though (as the manual was useless).

    All this stated, I don’t know whether there is an option for “older settings”, and it truly does seem to be a DMR-related feature of the D-Theater/D-VHS, left over from before HDCP. My hope is that a product engineer ultimately comes on this forum and provides a concrete reason for why it isn’t working, or offers a real solution to make it work (which would probably mean a firmware update).

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