webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  LG webOS TV > Interesting read: the webOS team and LG
Interesting read: the webOS team and LG
  Reply
Like Tree21Likes

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08/28/2014, 12:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 269
as with everyting on the internet...make up your own mind how big a grain of salt you need.

A failed experiment: How LG screwed up its webOS acquisition — Tech News and Analysis

There are some interesting notes on the contrast between the vision of the silicon valley webOS team and LG.
Misj' is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp and dkohanim like this.
Old 08/28/2014, 12:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
broncot's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,089
This is enough for me......
__________________
My gadget list-TouchPad, Pre 3, Pre 2, Pre+, Pixi+, Treo 700p, Treo 650, Centro, Handspring, Kyocera 6035, 7135-all with Verizon.
broncot is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by HelloNNNewman likes this.
Old 08/28/2014, 01:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
HelloNNNewman's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,200
Even though I think the article's title is extremist (trying to get attention), this isn't the first article to be published about the clash of East vs. West ideas on the UI.

The article isn't wrong about how the Korean heads wanted a very square, uniform, typically-Korean looking UI. And the webOS team had to fight tooth and nail just to get the slant added to the icons on the main screen (thank God they won that one too). Other articles talk about how the Korean group was really against thinking outside of the box for any UI ideas that the webOS team knew would work best in the West. It was a clash of cultural ways of thinking and hopefully opened the eyes of the Korean group as to what works outside of Asia.

Right now I have a feeling it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not LG allows their own bogged down culture to screw this up, but if they allow themselves to try and follow other manufactures like Samsung instead of trusting in their own team's vision - they will stall out. You can't innovate by trying to be like other companies. They have a new, cool UI that they could/should be using to cause other manufacturers to scramble to imitate.
__________________



Network Moderator | Mobile Nations Rules

Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 08/28/2014 at 01:27 PM.
HelloNNNewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 01:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Grabber5.0's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,201
That is a pretty disappointing story.
__________________
Matt Williams
Grabber Software
*How to install .patch files on your device*

Grabber5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 02:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 211
How can they be so tone deaf to all of the positive feedback on their new WebOS TV's that seem to validate everything the WebOS team fought for? I cannot believe that anyone in LG thought their old Smart TV app was not one of the worst things on the planet and WebOS could be their salvation to stand out from the pack.

Granted the title is a little harsh, there is truth that once again WebOS is taking it where it hurts for it seems less likely that any decent version will make it to phones with most of the original team gone and the TV interface may slowly revert to something less if their corporate culture does not change.

All I can think of is the saying as it related to WebOS loyalists: 'We are made to suffer. It's our lot in life."
joeytino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 02:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
HelloNNNewman's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,200
The articles I saw similar to this came out before the full roll-out and positive reviews. Hopefully all of the positive reviews that resulted from these UI decisions the webOS team got through got their attention. But again... when dealing with cultural stuff, it's really hard to change ideas overnight. They love uniform, square, grids... <sigh>
__________________



Network Moderator | Mobile Nations Rules
HelloNNNewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 03:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
The articles I saw similar to this came out before the full roll-out and positive reviews. Hopefully all of the positive reviews that resulted from these UI decisions the webOS team got through got their attention. But again... when dealing with cultural stuff, it's really hard to change ideas overnight. They love uniform, square, grids... <sigh>
Believe me I used to work in the GM IT department so I know how hard it can be to stop years of corporate inertia going in the wrong way.
joeytino is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by HelloNNNewman likes this.
Old 08/28/2014, 04:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 13
Well, to LG's defend, WebOS itself wasn't something glory. It's almost dead under Palm then HP pickup. HP ditch its first device for ridiculously cheap as I remember. Surprise that LG pick them up. It's natural for LG to make change to the failing WebOS to make it works for them. The bottom line is if WebOS people knows what they're doing, they wouldn't be sold twice in the last few years. They would be well know by now. I myself almost forgot that name. To be honest, I don't know why LG went that route. They would probably better off using Android.
toiday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 04:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
HelloNNNewman's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,200
**yawn** Yes, another person coming through for Android. Your first 2 sentences show that you really aren't well versed in the webOS story during the Palm to HP period.
__________________



Network Moderator | Mobile Nations Rules
HelloNNNewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp, Alan Morford, jdevora and 3 others like this.
Old 08/28/2014, 05:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 13
Sorry, I forgot this is the WebOS forum. Didn't mean to insult the WebOS fans. Just stop by to find answers to my new TV.

PS - I had both the original 3Com Palm Pilot and the Treo phone (2004) before iOS and Android. It's not my fault that I had to switch to Android. WebOS just wasn't there for me.

Last edited by toiday; 08/28/2014 at 05:18 PM.
toiday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 05:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
HelloNNNewman's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,200
LOL... no worries! I've got an HTC One right now and Android simply doesn't do it for me either. Yep, this is a webOS enthusiast site, but it wasn't the OS that was messed up... HP (Leo Apotheker) killed it when it was just starting out. Horrible mismanagement at HP did it in. Hopefully LG doesn't mess it up now.
__________________



Network Moderator | Mobile Nations Rules
HelloNNNewman is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by jdevora and Saijin_Naib like this.
Old 08/28/2014, 07:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
pivotCE Developer
 
Preemptive's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,397
On a positive note... ;-)

The 'Apotheclypse' occurred after I ordered my phone, but before it arrived.

3 years later, the devices are still being kept alive. Yes, it's a struggle and one that we may eventually have to give up on, but right now you can still use webOS on the original models. You can also have ACL. You can have Android (and other things) on your TP. webOS is on TVs.

You can have LuneOS on the Gnex, Nexus4, Nexus7 and now even the TP. No, it's not ready yet, but you can try the prototypes.

So since HP, webOS is still alive. It does more and is available on more devices than ever.

If this article is a true representation of the situation at LG, then we have to ask what did LG want or expect of webOS? Why not just slap another skinned Android on the TV? Surely the noticable critical and sales success would encourage them to trust the team? Of course, it won't be the first time a promising product had been killed by corporate politics and not the first time it happened to webOS either! ;-)

It is to be hoped that LG look at the sales charts and build on their success rather than dilute it, but whatever they do, Open webOS still exists and LuneOS is a significant fork - it has to be. If LG mess it up, one positive may be that there will be a lot of webOS developers no longer under contract. They'll no doubt be busy at good jobs elsewhere, but out of hours, they may wish to finish their work at webOS-ports.
__________________
webOS Status Report | The Zombie & Dead app list | User Count | webOS Service Pack | Back up advice
Preemptive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/28/2014, 11:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer

 
Posts: 3,536
All acquisitions have growing pains. Obviously there are two big reasons for the people who have left to have left -- either they weren't happy with the way things were going, or they got more benefit from somewhere else. There may be other reasons some people have left, but the people who were unhappiest are going to be the loudest to talk about it, and that will make it sound like doom and gloom.

I don't feel like it's my place to talk much on matters of the corporation, because I don't want anyone to get the idea that i'm speaking for anyone but myself... but.... i feel like not saying something is like tacitly agreeing.

I have the utmost respect for those who've been at LG and gone, and I hope they find their happiness wherever they've gone to. For those who felt things weren't working out the way they wanted them to, I could certainly see how they could feel doomy and gloomy about it.

Some days, I disagree with people. Some days, I get angry. Some days, I agree with people, and some days, I'm really happy. Heck, sometimes that all happens in the same day. Some times I'm even happily disagreeing with people, and doing the thing that I disagree about, in the way that I disagree about doing it. I'm a person! yay!

That happens at every job in the world that involves more than one person. Sometimes, it becomes too much, or it gets in the way of doing what you're trying to do.

I can certainly understand someone who is constantly having their creative input fought over or outright overruled being unhappy. I get unhappy too, when I'm doing creative work (and programming can certainly be considered a creative work) and it gets kicked around. That's what happens when you're not the person or the team who make the ultimate decisions. Maybe some of these people thought they would be the person or the team making ultimate decisions, but ultimately they weren't. That would make me really unhappy, too, I imagine.
__________________
Author:
Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
Quote:
(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
GO OPEN WEBOS!
People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
eblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp, Grabber5.0 and HelloNNNewman like this.
Old 08/29/2014, 04:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
mr-scorpio's Avatar
 
Posts: 112
Having a Brother-in-law who is married to a Korean girl, and even I had my own honeymoon on the Island of Jeju .. (Neither my wife or I are Korean).
After experiencing their culture 1st hand, i can see how they crash perfectly good aircraft when landing. *ouch*.
Their culture of hierarchy and servitude is so deeply engrained, it can be both a source of great respect, but also extremely dangerous when arrogance & self appointed ego steps in.
mr-scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/29/2014, 04:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
mr-scorpio's Avatar
 
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by eblade View Post
All acquisitions have growing pains. Obviously there are two big reasons for the people who have left to have left -- either they weren't happy with the way things were going, or they got more benefit from somewhere else. There may be other reasons some people have left, but the people who were unhappiest are going to be the loudest to talk about it, and that will make it sound like doom and gloom.

I don't feel like it's my place to talk much on matters of the corporation, because I don't want anyone to get the idea that i'm speaking for anyone but myself... but.... i feel like not saying something is like tacitly agreeing.

I have the utmost respect for those who've been at LG and gone, and I hope they find their happiness wherever they've gone to. For those who felt things weren't working out the way they wanted them to, I could certainly see how they could feel doomy and gloomy about it.

Some days, I disagree with people. Some days, I get angry. Some days, I agree with people, and some days, I'm really happy. Heck, sometimes that all happens in the same day. Some times I'm even happily disagreeing with people, and doing the thing that I disagree about, in the way that I disagree about doing it. I'm a person! yay!

That happens at every job in the world that involves more than one person. Sometimes, it becomes too much, or it gets in the way of doing what you're trying to do.

I can certainly understand someone who is constantly having their creative input fought over or outright overruled being unhappy. I get unhappy too, when I'm doing creative work (and programming can certainly be considered a creative work) and it gets kicked around. That's what happens when you're not the person or the team who make the ultimate decisions. Maybe some of these people thought they would be the person or the team making ultimate decisions, but ultimately they weren't. That would make me really unhappy, too, I imagine.
Hi eblade, just a small observation... If i click on your links in your 'Author' footer, they are all coming back as either broken or not found?
mr-scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/29/2014, 05:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 269
One should of course not forget, that the webOS-TV GUI was different from anything else on the market. It turns out that it works better (from what I've heard, haven't used it myself), and it brought LG (and webOS...yet again) critical acclaim. But I can also understand that management just could not see it when the team came to them with the idea/demo.

Plus - besides cultural differences - you also had this new kid (webOS) that most likely wanted to proof itself (both to LG, that they were worth buying, and to the world that webOS was worth existing and was not an intrinsically failed product), and create something novel. But at the same time you had the existing LG TV branch that probably felt that they too knew what they were doing, and they didn't need these outsiders. This is of course all speculation, but every work environment has some ego's and experts. And when it comes to vision those can easily clash.

I do feel that by adopting the motto 'make TV simple again' LG either understands what the webOS team wanted to achieve, or created a brand where they have to stick to the webOS mantra or else run the risk of being butchered by critics.
Misj' is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by hulickr likes this.
Old 08/29/2014, 09:33 AM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
ToniCipriani's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,450
One thing I'm not surprised is LG's feature-bloat thing, it's not isolated to webOS.

I briefly had a go with an LG G2 which I bought at a huge discount for my sis, my god that thing was a torrid mess. So much of the "features" felt botched together without thought, and no easy way to access it. Sometimes you need a hand with six fingers to launch, like the quick memo and background process thing on it.
__________________
Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
ToniCipriani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/29/2014, 12:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 31
Re: differences in UI philosophy, tech-saavy cultures like in South Korea and Japan are used to complex UIs with lots of features. The Korean LG G2 even has a pull-out TV antenna to watch over-the-air TV.

The problem is that this kind of feature creep is the opposite of consumer trends in the US and elsewhere towards simpler, beautiful UIs. The executives probably wanted something they were comfortable/familiar with and were perhaps somewhat risk-adverse to changing things up, despite buying webOS for that exact reason -- there was likely some internal disagreement over how much freedom to give LG SVL to break from the old ways and do something innovative vs protecting its multi-billion-dollar TV business.
jl85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/29/2014, 05:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer

 
Posts: 3,536
mr-scorpio: heh. this is not surprising. Maybe over this long weekend, I can grab some time away from writing code for webOS to try to recover my web server files from my pile of questionably-working hard drives. Thanks for noticing AND mentioning it, though!
__________________
Author:
Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
Quote:
(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
GO OPEN WEBOS!
People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
eblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/01/2014, 01:59 AM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 
Buddy1969's Avatar
 
Posts: 546
Lol ... here we go again.

A new OS on a plattform (first it was smartphones and tablets, now it is TVs)
Critics love it.
Management kills it.

Nicely done ...
__________________
War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
Buddy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

 

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WebOS Internals team. Can/will u work with the CM7 team? fsx100 WebOS Internals 2 10/03/2011 07:39 AM
Found this very interesting read - iOS vs. Android vs. webOS | 1n73r.net manordwall Other OS's and Devices 18 10/28/2010 07:22 AM
Interesting read: ilovedessert Palm Pre and Pre Plus 14 03/16/2010 09:18 AM
Interesting read.... mrkalel Palm Pre and Pre Plus 1 01/10/2010 09:35 PM
interesting read Felipe The 'Off Topic' Lounge 0 05/13/2003 04:31 PM


 


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0