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webOS Nation Forums > Other Forums > HP webOS news > Price Cuts = Possible New Pre Coming?
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Originally Posted by hparsons:
"Poor showing"?? Is this inside information, wishful speculartion, or did you fire up your crystal ball? Regardless, do an source check - the Pre hit it's first quarerer sales expectations, since it wasn't available for sale until the second quarter.
Since the Pre missed Sprint's first quarter 1-1.5 million unit sales planning figures considerably (Link), may have matched the lowered 400-500 unit sales estimates (still a mystery though Link), yet still maintains its actual sales figures as something akin to a state secret, this sudden plummet in pricing (after an unprofitable quarter) is likely explained as a way to boost market share by stimulating the Pre's lagging sales figures."Poor showing"?? Is this inside information, wishful speculartion, or did you fire up your crystal ball? Regardless, do an source check - the Pre hit it's first quarerer sales expectations, since it wasn't available for sale until the second quarter.
BTW - what did you mean by: "the Pre hit it's first quarerer sales expectations, since it wasn't available for sale until the second quarter." Palm's September report was for the period 1 June - 31 August which coincides with Palm's first fiscal quarter for their 2010 business year, which also happens to be the first business quarter in which the Pre was sold. What were you trying to say here?
Since the Pixi has 8GB of storage just like the Pre, rather than the rumored 4GB, I expect Palm is trying to push out the remaining 8GB Pres A.S.A.P. With Pixi at the low end, who would buy an 8GB Pre? I expect we will see a higher capacity Pre, most likely 16GB because Palm has to miss the mark AGAIN versus the 32GB iFauxn, with the Pixi release.
Originally Posted by :
Hey kids, did you buy a $300 Pre? Are you STILL fighting to get the $100 rebate? Well, have we got a deal for you! Get the new Pre16 for only $600! Too bad you are already locked into a 2 year contract and do not qualify for subsidized pricing. :sadface: Cheer up! You will only be one year behind all of your friends with iPhones (except for all those missing features like video recording, video editing, full Cut/Copy/Paste, unlimited launcher screens, ability to select notification sound, ...)!
Hey kids, did you buy a $300 Pre? Are you STILL fighting to get the $100 rebate? Well, have we got a deal for you! Get the new Pre16 for only $600! Too bad you are already locked into a 2 year contract and do not qualify for subsidized pricing. :sadface: Cheer up! You will only be one year behind all of your friends with iPhones (except for all those missing features like video recording, video editing, full Cut/Copy/Paste, unlimited launcher screens, ability to select notification sound, ...)!
Originally Posted by chodaboy:
Since the Pixi has 8GB of storage just like the Pre, rather than the rumored 4GB, I expect Palm is trying to push out the remaining 8GB Pres A.S.A.P. With Pixi at the low end, who would buy an 8GB Pre? I expect we will see a higher capacity Pre, most likely 16GB because Palm has to miss the mark AGAIN versus the 32GB iFauxn, with the Pixi release.
Since the Pixi has 8GB of storage just like the Pre, rather than the rumored 4GB, I expect Palm is trying to push out the remaining 8GB Pres A.S.A.P. With Pixi at the low end, who would buy an 8GB Pre? I expect we will see a higher capacity Pre, most likely 16GB because Palm has to miss the mark AGAIN versus the 32GB iFauxn, with the Pixi release.
Absolutely right- they have to upscale the Pre for just the reason you mention. They can't wait to June 2010. With $100 iPhones with 16 gig now and soon to fade away to be replaced by the 3GS at $100 (when apple begins to make room for it's next higher end iteration) Palm can't afford to have a Pre with 8 gigs at $80 or so which is what it is already hitting at Wal-Mart.
Originally Posted by :
You're living in theory land...
No I'm not. I'm a product developer working in a similar branch of consumer electronics. You certainly live there by the sound of it, though. And you have no idea how products are developed and brought to market. Please note that just because you happen to have an opinion doesn't make it particularly well informed.You're living in theory land...
As far as price goes, I wouldn't be too worried about the price drops either - or see them as an indicator of some major change. I typically see a build cost that's roughly 1/6 the MAP of the device. I know that the margins in the phone market are much smaller, but I expect that even at $99 Palm is probably making decent money on the hardware (remember that part of that price drop is absorbed in the dealer lowering THEIR margin, and also that carriers are subsidizing the phones - so even drastic price cuts aren't necessarily effecting Palm adversely).
I think that these price drops are partially strategic on Palm's part (to try and saturate the market with WebOS devices, and to increase mindshare), and partially carriers and dealers acting on their own (as long as their not violating MAP) to take advantage of a hot phone before a new crop rolls in.
dream on
Originally Posted by nem0nic:
This isn't how it happens in product development. Ever. When developers identify bugs in a product, they issue a line change to the factory and that issue gets addressed. We've already seen this policy in action with Palm and the Pre. Companies do not keep producing problem units, make no attempt to fix them, and then try to introduce the product's successor less than a year after the original was released. That would be stupid and costly.
Why have they not fixed the oreo problem then? I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak.This isn't how it happens in product development. Ever. When developers identify bugs in a product, they issue a line change to the factory and that issue gets addressed. We've already seen this policy in action with Palm and the Pre. Companies do not keep producing problem units, make no attempt to fix them, and then try to introduce the product's successor less than a year after the original was released. That would be stupid and costly.
The phone may be 'loose' in that some will get a varying range of play causing that Oreo effect. But it doesnt effect the function of the phone and the slider will most likely hold up during it's warranty period which is what matters to them. So it really isnt a defect. Call it a 'character flaw.' 
Originally Posted by s219:
Why have they not fixed the oreo problem then? I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak.
Why have they not fixed the oreo problem then? I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak.
Originally Posted by s219:
Why have they not fixed the oreo problem then? I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak.
The new Pres have the issues fixed. There was a thread on that very subject.Why have they not fixed the oreo problem then? I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak.
Also my belief is folks out side this forum ( I guess of the 10K members about a thousand of them are active , of which half of them complain.) are just fine with the build quality of it. May be they use it carefully.
But in the main stream media this was not a big issue. I was looking for someone to question this in the investor's call. But none was interested.
While the built quality is not quite in the same category as other devices , this issue can be put to rest.
Their may be a storage increase but that would be it, and I doubt even that. I don't look for any changes until the Pre2 around a year after release of the original. They are going to have to do yearly updates if they are going to keep up with the competition.
I dont think palm will release another pre til june 2010. they will follow timelines sinilar to what the iphone did.that was the reason for the 8gig pre is to have something to build apon. everyone who has a 8gig pre will be able to upgrade to a 16 or 32gig pre in june 2010.
P120?
Let's get serious folks - Palm is about to:
1) introduce the Pre to Europe in a few weeks.
2) have a second carrier in the U.S. (Verizon in case you haven't kept up with current news) and introduce the Pre to the new carrier.
3) Pixi is about to come out.
It would make no sense to introduce a new Pre, when your about to introduce your first Pre to new markets and a new carrier.
If you look at what Apple did, once they had introduced the iPhone to other markets, and had established themselves with the iPhone as a new player in the smartphone market, then months later they introduced the next generation iPhone.
Realistically, your looking at least 9 to 12 months after Verizon kicks off. Which means you'll start hearing about the new Pre in about 6 - 9 months, with a possibility of getting a new version by 2011 holiday season or with a intro at CES in 2012. IMHO
Of course a memory upgrade is possible sooner than that.
1) introduce the Pre to Europe in a few weeks.
2) have a second carrier in the U.S. (Verizon in case you haven't kept up with current news) and introduce the Pre to the new carrier.
3) Pixi is about to come out.
It would make no sense to introduce a new Pre, when your about to introduce your first Pre to new markets and a new carrier.
If you look at what Apple did, once they had introduced the iPhone to other markets, and had established themselves with the iPhone as a new player in the smartphone market, then months later they introduced the next generation iPhone.
Realistically, your looking at least 9 to 12 months after Verizon kicks off. Which means you'll start hearing about the new Pre in about 6 - 9 months, with a possibility of getting a new version by 2011 holiday season or with a intro at CES in 2012. IMHO
Of course a memory upgrade is possible sooner than that.
^ Agreed.
BUT... just to have something to mumble about...Maybe a 4g version is in the pipeline?
BUT... just to have something to mumble about...Maybe a 4g version is in the pipeline?
Originally Posted by gbp:
The new Pres have the issues fixed. There was a thread on that very subject.
Also my belief is folks out side this forum ( I guess of the 10K members about a thousand of them are active , of which half of them complain.) are just fine with the build quality of it. May be they use it carefully.
But in the main stream media this was not a big issue. I was looking for someone to question this in the investor's call. But none was interested.
While the built quality is not quite in the same category as other devices , this issue can be put to rest.
One of my buddies at work got a Pre with a build date less than two weeks old, and it has an oreo problem. Comparing it to my older Pres, I see no difference in the design/build of the slider hardware at all.The new Pres have the issues fixed. There was a thread on that very subject.
Also my belief is folks out side this forum ( I guess of the 10K members about a thousand of them are active , of which half of them complain.) are just fine with the build quality of it. May be they use it carefully.
But in the main stream media this was not a big issue. I was looking for someone to question this in the investor's call. But none was interested.
While the built quality is not quite in the same category as other devices , this issue can be put to rest.
Here's a likely explanation for the recent price drops:
.... "It's the economy, stupid!"
It's as simple as that. Sprint's real goal is to increase their subscriber base. The Pre is a nice phone to accomplish that, but they can sell more and increase their mindshare at the lower price. It's just like the Centro. Even before the Centro came out, I recommended that Palm needed to sell a low priced device (even though it was very similar is spec to the Treo 700p). Palm saw the same thing that I did and they sold millions (or at least 1MM) of them. This is a simple matter of Sprint and Palm pricing their product so that best achieves their corporate objectives. If you dream of a better Pre, you'll be dreaming for a good while. The most that will happen is they will bump up the amount of static RAM *after* they achieve some volume objectives with the current inventory.
.... "It's the economy, stupid!"
It's as simple as that. Sprint's real goal is to increase their subscriber base. The Pre is a nice phone to accomplish that, but they can sell more and increase their mindshare at the lower price. It's just like the Centro. Even before the Centro came out, I recommended that Palm needed to sell a low priced device (even though it was very similar is spec to the Treo 700p). Palm saw the same thing that I did and they sold millions (or at least 1MM) of them. This is a simple matter of Sprint and Palm pricing their product so that best achieves their corporate objectives. If you dream of a better Pre, you'll be dreaming for a good while. The most that will happen is they will bump up the amount of static RAM *after* they achieve some volume objectives with the current inventory.
Originally Posted by Kupe:
Since the Pre missed Sprint's first quarter 1-1.5 million unit sales planning figures considerably (Link), may have matched the lowered 400-500 unit sales estimates (still a mystery though Link), yet still maintains its actual sales figures as something akin to a state secret, this sudden plummet in pricing (after an unprofitable quarter) is likely explained as a way to boost market share by stimulating the Pre's lagging sales figures.
BTW - what did you mean by: "the Pre hit it's first quarerer sales expectations, since it wasn't available for sale until the second quarter." Palm's September report was for the period 1 June - 31 August which coincides with Palm's first fiscal quarter for their 2010 business year, which also happens to be the first business quarter in which the Pre was sold. What were you trying to say here?
I wonder how many more sales they would have had if sprint would not have played the "everything" game? People with older and special plans were left in limbo... some switched... I wanted a pre, but glad I waited... tp2 (nuff said).Since the Pre missed Sprint's first quarter 1-1.5 million unit sales planning figures considerably (Link), may have matched the lowered 400-500 unit sales estimates (still a mystery though Link), yet still maintains its actual sales figures as something akin to a state secret, this sudden plummet in pricing (after an unprofitable quarter) is likely explained as a way to boost market share by stimulating the Pre's lagging sales figures.
BTW - what did you mean by: "the Pre hit it's first quarerer sales expectations, since it wasn't available for sale until the second quarter." Palm's September report was for the period 1 June - 31 August which coincides with Palm's first fiscal quarter for their 2010 business year, which also happens to be the first business quarter in which the Pre was sold. What were you trying to say here?
palm seems to be hurting and struggling to find their range with this product. You don't act the way palm is acting when your product is selling well. And you don't slash prices this quickly unless you are having issues... or the item is hot, you have stock, and you want them to fly off the shelf.
Who knows for sure... we can all speculate.
My speculation is the same that it always has... palm is trying to stay afloat long enough for someone to buy them.
Either way, palm should get away from sprint... palm can't compete with the marketing engine called Apple... or crappy iphone, which might as well be called aka itune phone.
Originally Posted by :
I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak
Please define for me what you think a "simple production tweak" is, and what the limitations of a modern factory are. If they can tool up to manufacture a new device, why couldn't they retool to fix a defect of ANY sort? Aren't things like ROI more likely a limiting factor than some imaginary factory limitation? Especially when Palm has investors to answer to?I have a feeling that goes way beyond a simple production tweak
Line changes are easy compared to asking your investors for another $100M after you just borrowed $100M and haven't yet proven the first device.
Originally Posted by silent_bob:
All of us who..shelled out the 500 bucks got screwed over..we demand some money back..cause we got defective units at a huge price and now the better ones or a new model of pre is coming and we all bent over and grabbed our ankles if you know what i mean...we got SCREWED!!!!
Bob - you bough the first release. What did you really expect ? No new upgraded hardware - ever ? All of us who..shelled out the 500 bucks got screwed over..we demand some money back..cause we got defective units at a huge price and now the better ones or a new model of pre is coming and we all bent over and grabbed our ankles if you know what i mean...we got SCREWED!!!!
Get real.
Originally Posted by nem0nic:
Please define for me what you think a "simple production tweak" is, ...
Not sure exactly what the other person might have met, but they probably meant someting like increasing the size of the available memory (which hopefully would be pin-for-pin compatible and therefore a low risk, high value production tweak).Please define for me what you think a "simple production tweak" is, ...
Originally Posted by hbg:
That's the risk of being an early adopter of any tech product. It's happened to me numerous times with computers, cellphones and the first iPhone.
It's true. It almost always happens, so if you don't want to pay the higher price, wait six months before buying.That's the risk of being an early adopter of any tech product. It's happened to me numerous times with computers, cellphones and the first iPhone.
I basically never buy any new technology within the first 9 months, whether it's computer parts, handheld devices, or even cars.
I bought my last car BELOW dealer cost because I waited until the end of the year. And that was BEFORE the economic crash.
webOS Nation Forums > Other Forums > HP webOS news > Price Cuts = Possible New Pre Coming?
