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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    It seems that there is a new A6 chip, which is related to the touchstone interface (charging and touch to share). This chip seems to be programmable. There is a binary called PmA6Updater which programs it. Interrupting that binary while it is running will brick a device.

    So it seems that correct programming of the A6 chip is required to boot the device.

    Hence my advice is to stay well away from the PmA6Updater binary, and programming of this A6 chip.

    -- Rod
    Is it possible that this device can be brought back to life with the promised update that will enable Touch To Share? Seems like they would put the required "correct programming" into those doctors.
    - James Harris

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  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by spdsktr View Post
    Is it possible that this device can be brought back to life with the promised update that will enable Touch To Share? Seems like they would put the required "correct programming" into those doctors.
    Um, bricked means bricked. You can't doctor a bricked phone.

    -- Rod
  3. #43  
    Do you think there is a possibility that an update to the touch-to-share could render the Veer as unbrickable as previous WebOS devices?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomStrayThought View Post
    Do you think there is a possibility that an update to the touch-to-share could render the Veer as unbrickable as previous WebOS devices?
    Let's just say that no one but Rod is likely to ever try to do what Rod did... so you and I are totally safe. Nothing to worry about except getting him another phone to play with in Australia.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    Try everything on this page exactly as described at least 10 times...
    How To Recover - WebOS Internals
    Ha Ha

    For those who don't get the joke, if you have a Pre/Pre+/Pre2, that page *will* recover any device. Unfortunately, that is not true for the Veer.

    BTW, the Veer Disassembly - WebOS Internals page has lots of new shots added today ...

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomStrayThought View Post
    Do you think there is a possibility that an update to the touch-to-share could render the Veer as unbrickable as previous WebOS devices?
    I suspect it's a feature of the hardware design.

    Put it this way: I would be very careful not to bump that magnetic connector while doing a doctor on a Veer. It's probably ok (I was doing something far more intrusive and hard-core than just plain doctoring), but I wouldn't risk it. Put your cat and children in another room while doctoring ...

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  7. #47  
    Nice to see that the battery is in fact replaceable. Good work, sir!
    Touchscreens are a fad.
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    I suspect it's a feature of the hardware design.

    Put it this way: I would be very careful not to bump that magnetic connector while doing a doctor on a Veer. It's probably ok (I was doing something far more intrusive and hard-core than just plain doctoring), but I wouldn't risk it. Put your cat and children in another room while doctoring ...

    -- Rod
    So, where does that A6 chip get it's interface within WebOS to cause the bricking? Or is it on a lower level where the hardware/firmware itself won't even try to boot if the A6 chip firmware somehow gets screwed up? Have you talked to anyone over at Palm/HP about the problem to make sure THEY are aware of a weakness in the design that THEY may not be aware of?

    Without knowing more about where the A6 gets linked into the rest of the hardware, I am just curious here since having the A6 be REQUIRED for boot seems like a design flaw.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    So, where does that A6 chip get it's interface within WebOS to cause the bricking? Or is it on a lower level where the hardware/firmware itself won't even try to boot if the A6 chip firmware somehow gets screwed up? Have you talked to anyone over at Palm/HP about the problem to make sure THEY are aware of a weakness in the design that THEY may not be aware of?

    Without knowing more about where the A6 gets linked into the rest of the hardware, I am just curious here since having the A6 be REQUIRED for boot seems like a design flaw.
    It seems to be at the hardware level, since the USB device interface becomes non-functional and there is zero response at power-on.

    I'm sure they are fully aware of it - it's not unusual for smartphone designs to be like this. We have just been spoilt by the robustness of the OMAP processor in the previous generations of the Pre/Pre+/Pre2.

    -- Rod
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    #50  
    I just hope the Pre 3 won't have the potential for getting screwed up by this. While there CAN be some elements that are required to boot, if a device can be useful without cellular, WiFi, or Touchstone use, then it would make sense that elements that touch on those elements should NOT have the potential to screw up the device if they fail.

    Just as a bit of research, and no matter how much you suspect they should know about it, I would STILL try to contact HP/Palm on the matter and ask if there would be a way to get around the problem. If the A6 chip were not there at all, would that allow things to work, or is it a requirement for the circuit design?
  11.    #51  
    It looks like the Touch2Share Interface is there where the battery interface is.
    http://forums.precentral.net/showthr...=1#post2976577
  12. #52  
    Glad this happened when it did, as I've been looking for an excuse to donate recently. $20 more sent your way, Rod. Thanks to you and your fellow webOS tinkerers for all you've made possible.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    It looks like the Touch2Share Interface is there where the battery interface is.
    http://forums.precentral.net/showthr...=1#post2976577
    Yes, that confirms my suspicion that the bricking is caused by bad A6 programming breaking the path to the battery somehow.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    What about the modem just going Offline causing the battery to drain and refuse to charge? That's the closest you'll get to a brick on a Pre.

    Other question: just saw your warning on [url= Flash - WebOS Internals[/url]
    What are the differences between PmModemUpdater and this A6 sucker? Don't they essentially target different component? One the modem, and the other the A6 chip?
    This bricking was caused by the A6 programming.

    I'm suspecting the modem may be similarly fragile (since it's a single SoC solution, so if the modem fails to boot then the whole device fails to boot), but have no proof.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  15.    #55  
    and where is the chip located at? We know that the "old" battery chip was in the battery.
    And now? Where is the A6? Is there an extra chip in the battery as well?
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    and where is the chip located at? We know that the "old" battery chip was in the battery.
    And now? Where is the A6? Is there an extra chip in the battery as well?
    No idea. One way to determine this would be to see whether those A6 registers we found still give valid values with the device powered but battery removed. But that's not something for the faint-hearted to test.

    I suspect the A6 is on the main circuit board, not the battery, since it needs to control the inductive charging.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    No idea. One way to determine this would be to see whether those A6 registers we found still give valid values with the device powered but battery removed. But that's not something for the faint-hearted to test.

    I suspect the A6 is on the main circuit board, not the battery, since it needs to control the inductive charging.

    -- Rod
    Same thoughts here. But there need to be something in the battery as well if you have a removable battery (pre3).
    Maybe the sources can bring some light into it.

    EDIT: And: there are 3 contact to the battery. + - and most likely the I2C interface. So there is a chip inside.
    Last edited by somline; 05/31/2011 at 01:50 AM.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    Same thoughts here. But there need to be something in the battery as well if you have a removable battery (pre3).
    Maybe the sources can bring some light into it.

    EDIT: And: there are 3 contact to the battery. + - and most likely the I2C interface. So there is a chip inside.
    Yes, I would expect there is the normal one-wire fuel guage chip in the battery, and I would expect that the A6 chip on the main circuit board controls it.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    can Veer users expect homebrew support for that?
    Dr. Battery support for the Veer is up to somline.

    For other homebrew apps, like Preware, Govnah, Save/Restore, Impostah, wIRC, MetaDoctor, etc - I tested all those in the short time that my Veer was working, and made all required changes (which were very few).

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  20. #60  
    Twenty-spot headed your way my aussie friend...
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