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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Derek pulled his evaluation unit apart and published pics on the P|C main page a few weeks ago. Lots of tiny stuff in there.
    I remember that...


    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Meh, he just pulled the back off. I'm talking about *really* taking it apart.

    -- Rod
    But have been waiting for this!
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
    not only can a cdma radio fit in a veer sized phone, but can't a 3.5 mm headset jack and charging port also fit, along with a removable battery? It did in the kin phone, and it has in quite a few small flip phones.

    I think it was just a design decision by palm, for whatever reason. Anything else said is just speculation. I think the veer is a nice phone, but these subtle but silly (in my opinion at least) hardware decisions will hold it back...esp the magnetic adaptor.
    I still fully believe the headphone jack would have reduced something (at least battery size). I guess we will all see when Rod tears his down.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    AT&T Veer GSM wavelength is 850MHz. (35+cm)

    -- Rod
    I did not think that was the case since the Veer is using ATT's spuper duper HPPPSA+++VIPASAPQTKPMIA 4g minus minus network. But if so, then there must be another reason, perhaps it is this:

    The classic explanation of the difference between GSM and CDMA goes as follows:


    Suppose there are 10 couples in a room and each couple wants to talk between themselves but doesn't want the other couples to know what they are saying, there are a few different ways to do this.

    One way is to have 9 couples leave the room and let one couple talk for a bit then, after a certain time, you have them go out and have another couple come in and so on. Each couple gets the whole room but for limited amounts of time and have to take turns.

    THIS IS GSM

    Another way is for all the couples to be in the room talking at the same time but to have each of them speaking a different language that the others don't understand.

    THIS IS CDMA

    Clearly, its going to be hard enough to cram just one couple in the Veer, let alone 10 at the same time....


    Oh yes, the other way is to make so many rules and restrictions on how you can use your mouth that people get frustrated and just decide its not worth talking in the first place.

    THIS IS VERIZON
  4. #44  
    Perhaps it's just HP doesn't care about CDMA? 85-90% of the world is GSM, where more is moving towards the LTE standard, so is it really worth their effort?
  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    Perhaps it's just HP doesn't care about CDMA? 85-90% of the world is GSM, where more is moving towards the LTE standard, so is it really worth their effort?
    who says verizon isn't getting the veer?

    the purpose of this thread was to bust the myth that the radio was too small for cdma.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    Perhaps it's just HP doesn't care about CDMA? 85-90% of the world is GSM, where more is moving towards the LTE standard, so is it really worth their effort?
    A LARGE chunk of their US market is CDMA, I don't think it's a we don't care about CDMA thing, that would be insane for a company that already has very little market share. If that is the HP game plan, Nokia will actually move up a spot in the smartphone rankings...
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  7. #47  
    I've been gone from this site and fuming for a long time, but I've seen so much speculation that just doesn't seem to be logical, I just felt the need to pop back in.

    The Veer is GSM only because:
    CDMA Radios Are Too Large: This is definitely not the case, and it's been pointed out that other tiny little phones were CDMA (Kin One).

    HP is going GSM/LTE in the future: This doesn't matter in the present. Neither is the LTE radio in the Veer, nor would it work with the Veer's tiny battery.

    CDMA uses too much battery: There's no reason HP wouldn't have been able to put a more powerful battery into the Veer using the same physical specs at the cost of a couple dollars per unit. Considering Verizon's huge markups due to their inflated contract termination fees, it would have been easy to do.

    What does make sense is HP wasn't 100% sold on the marketability of the Veer, and building the phone in both GSM and CDMA versions would have been substantially more expensive for HP, especially if the device flopped. The Veer was therefore likely to be either CDMA OR GSM.

    Clearly, HP is trying to get marketing and recognition for its products, and the "4G" term was apparently coveted. Ultimately, Verizon or AT&T were the best targets for the phone due to cost control vs. target market. Which of the carriers would the Veer have the best chance at being successful? Able to use the "4G" marketing term with GSM (I doubt they really could have fit LTE/WiMax radios in), and with the Pre2 already available on Verizon, it's likely the Veer would have a greater chance of success on AT&T. The fact HP was probably able to present the Veer as an exclusive to AT&T didn't hurt HP's chances to get the carrier to sign onto the radical Veer concept.

    The choice to make the Veer GSM only was driven by cost, sales potential, and marketing impact, not by anything else.
  8. #48  
    Where are people getting the idea that at&t has a six month exclusive on the Veer?
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The choice to make the Veer GSM only was driven by cost, sales potential, and marketing impact, not by anything else.
    Good to know.
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    I've been gone from this site and fuming for a long time, but I've seen so much speculation that just doesn't seem to be logical, I just felt the need to pop back in.

    The Veer is GSM only because:
    CDMA Radios Are Too Large: This is definitely not the case, and it's been pointed out that other tiny little phones were CDMA (Kin One).

    HP is going GSM/LTE in the future: This doesn't matter in the present. Neither is the LTE radio in the Veer, nor would it work with the Veer's tiny battery.

    CDMA uses too much battery: There's no reason HP wouldn't have been able to put a more powerful battery into the Veer using the same physical specs at the cost of a couple dollars per unit. Considering Verizon's huge markups due to their inflated contract termination fees, it would have been easy to do.

    What does make sense is HP wasn't 100% sold on the marketability of the Veer, and building the phone in both GSM and CDMA versions would have been substantially more expensive for HP, especially if the device flopped. The Veer was therefore likely to be either CDMA OR GSM.

    Clearly, HP is trying to get marketing and recognition for its products, and the "4G" term was apparently coveted. Ultimately, Verizon or AT&T were the best targets for the phone due to cost control vs. target market. Which of the carriers would the Veer have the best chance at being successful? Able to use the "4G" marketing term with GSM (I doubt they really could have fit LTE/WiMax radios in), and with the Pre2 already available on Verizon, it's likely the Veer would have a greater chance of success on AT&T. The fact HP was probably able to present the Veer as an exclusive to AT&T didn't hurt HP's chances to get the carrier to sign onto the radical Veer concept.

    The choice to make the Veer GSM only was driven by cost, sales potential, and marketing impact, not by anything else.
    Then sprint would have been a better place to put Veer in. The have the largest number of webOS owners. A lot of them due for upgrade and with rumors of pre-3 not coming to sprint it would have been better had they released Veer on Sprint. Or atleast negotiated w sprint to let go off 4G, or made Veer tiny bit bigger to get 4G in. For all I care get rid of charging all together and have only touchstone.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    I've been gone from this site and fuming for a long time, but I've seen so much speculation that just doesn't seem to be logical, I just felt the need to pop back in.

    The Veer is GSM only because:
    CDMA Radios Are Too Large: This is definitely not the case, and it's been pointed out that other tiny little phones were CDMA (Kin One).

    HP is going GSM/LTE in the future: This doesn't matter in the present. Neither is the LTE radio in the Veer, nor would it work with the Veer's tiny battery.

    CDMA uses too much battery: There's no reason HP wouldn't have been able to put a more powerful battery into the Veer using the same physical specs at the cost of a couple dollars per unit. Considering Verizon's huge markups due to their inflated contract termination fees, it would have been easy to do.

    What does make sense is HP wasn't 100% sold on the marketability of the Veer, and building the phone in both GSM and CDMA versions would have been substantially more expensive for HP, especially if the device flopped. The Veer was therefore likely to be either CDMA OR GSM.

    Clearly, HP is trying to get marketing and recognition for its products, and the "4G" term was apparently coveted. Ultimately, Verizon or AT&T were the best targets for the phone due to cost control vs. target market. Which of the carriers would the Veer have the best chance at being successful? Able to use the "4G" marketing term with GSM (I doubt they really could have fit LTE/WiMax radios in), and with the Pre2 already available on Verizon, it's likely the Veer would have a greater chance of success on AT&T. The fact HP was probably able to present the Veer as an exclusive to AT&T didn't hurt HP's chances to get the carrier to sign onto the radical Veer concept.

    The choice to make the Veer GSM only was driven by cost, sales potential, and marketing impact, not by anything else.
    This is one of the best pieces of reasoning I've seen on the site as of late. Cheers.


    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Good to know.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Then sprint would have been a better place to put Veer in. The have the largest number of webOS owners. A lot of them due for upgrade and with rumors of pre-3 not coming to sprint it would have been better had they released Veer on Sprint. Or atleast negotiated w sprint to let go off 4G, or made Veer tiny bit bigger to get 4G in. For all I care get rid of charging all together and have only touchstone.
    As Rod pointed out to me yesterday in this thread, they wouldn't have had to have made it bigger for 4G.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  13. #53  
    CDMA hamsters are really fat and won't fit in the Veer at all. GSM hamsters are the dwarf-type and they use tiny little wheels to run in to make the radio work.
  14. dave75's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Good to know.
    If you're going to join in on the conversation why don't you enlighten us as to what your opinion is .
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    who says verizon isn't getting the veer?
    So far, the FCC
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    If you're going to join in on the conversation why don't you enlighten us as to what your opinion is .
    HardbeatZ is too valuable to this community for us to want him to risk sharing his opinions.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    If you're going to join in on the conversation why don't you enlighten us as to what your opinion is .
    I will gladly join in on the conversation. The thread is about the CDMA radio being to large for the Veer, which has been previously stated in the thread to be false information by the great and quite knowledgeable Rod Whitby, I second this and am in full agreeance with him.
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
  18. mrkalel's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave75 View Post
    If you're going to join in on the conversation why don't you enlighten us as to what your opinion is .
    Anything written by HardBeatZ wouldn't be "opinion": it would be Fact.
    Follow me on Twitter : MrKal_El
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Then sprint would have been a better place to put Veer in. The have the largest number of webOS owners. A lot of them due for upgrade and with rumors of pre-3 not coming to sprint it would have been better had they released Veer on Sprint. Or atleast negotiated w sprint to let go off 4G, or made Veer tiny bit bigger to get 4G in. For all I care get rid of charging all together and have only touchstone.
    Sprint might have more webOS user base, but I don't believe HP is specifically targeting the existing webOS users with the Veer. HP is obviously interested in gaining market share, not replacing existing market share. Assuming the Veer gets just 2% of AT&T's market share, and every single Sprint user abandons webOS, it would still be a positive for HP. Sprint has about 19% market share and AT&T has about 28% market share, domestically. It doesn't make sense to launch an exclusive phone with a smaller carrier (T Mobile or Sprint) from HP's perspective, I wouldn't think. I really believe HP only would have launched on Sprint if Sprint really wanted the Veer, and there were no other realistic option. Also, there is more clout to having a phone on AT&T or Verizon than there is with Sprint.

    Somebody else pointed out that my only assumption was the U.S. market, and they're right. I struggle to believe the European market is HP's primary concern for a smartphone at the moment, but having a GSM device certainly adds a cherry on top of what I expect was a largely U.S. market driven decision.

    Android, iOS, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 7, and webOS were all born in the U.S. and sales and adoption rates of smartphones in the U.S. are impressive. The U.S. is about 25% of the entire world's economy or about the same as the entire European Union. U.S. customers and cash flooded businesses have money to spend on a smartphone and tablet is fact which is hard to ignore.

    Side note, don't discount the value of CDMA for many Asian markets. The CDMA iPhone is blowing the doors of sales over there.

    Of course, I don't speak for HP and I could be wrong, but it all just makes sense from my perspective.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan View Post
    I did not think that was the case since the Veer is using ATT's spuper duper HPPPSA+++VIPASAPQTKPMIA 4g minus minus network. But if so, then there must be another reason, perhaps it is this:

    The classic explanation of the difference between GSM and CDMA goes as follows:


    Suppose there are 10 couples in a room and each couple wants to talk between themselves but doesn't want the other couples to know what they are saying, there are a few different ways to do this.

    One way is to have 9 couples leave the room and let one couple talk for a bit then, after a certain time, you have them go out and have another couple come in and so on. Each couple gets the whole room but for limited amounts of time and have to take turns.

    THIS IS GSM

    Another way is for all the couples to be in the room talking at the same time but to have each of them speaking a different language that the others don't understand.

    THIS IS CDMA

    Clearly, its going to be hard enough to cram just one couple in the Veer, let alone 10 at the same time....


    Oh yes, the other way is to make so many rules and restrictions on how you can use your mouth that people get frustrated and just decide its not worth talking in the first place.

    THIS IS VERIZON
    FYI, UMTS 3G (at least as it is deployed in most areas) is based on code-division, not time-division. It's not the same as GSM 2G.

    -- Rod
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