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  1. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvigilante1 View Post
    Teenagers or tweens. Folks with small hands. Someone made a comment about parents buying phones. That maybe true but that would mean those same parents would have to be impressed with webos. If that is the case they would already own a previous webos device. Most kids tell their parents what they want. I don't see phones any different. Heck my 6year already wants a "iphone 4" because two kids at her school have one.

    Another name for a soft launch is a NO launch. The purpose of releasing the veer is to get folks excited about webos. As of right now it's not working.
    There are 6 year olds with iPhone 4's? I really find that hard to believe that a six year old has a mobile.

    The purpose of the Veer wasn't to get people excited about webOS. The purpose of the TouchPad, Pre 3, and the Veer is to do that. The target market isn't tweens or anything like that. It's there to get people who want a feature phone and to make the jump into smart phones.
  2. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    ok, we get that you dont like the Veer or the horse it rode in on. So you arent forced to buy one. You are also not forced to talk others out of it. Ive played with the Veer. Ifit came to vzw there would be at least one in my house. Others in the forum have purchased the Veer and really like them.

    i dont understand the need to keep hammering on the same theme. As one who has worked with carriers, worked on 'soft launches' etc, i dont see anything that says FAIL except these repetitive threads. We all wish they'd sell a million of them. We all wish theyy'd advertise (and they've said said that they will)... But HP is running there business. Ive been involved in similar launches, this is a familiar (if boring) story.

    i hope there are better things to do than keep rehashing the same thing, especially when those that ACTUALLY HAVE ONE have been mostly reportiing that they like the phone.

    /rant

    i dont understand the need to keep making the
    On the other hand, if this theme is so "tired" and there is no need for this continued rant, why didn't you and the other "defenders" above just ignore it? It would have quickly dropped down the list, because of no fuel. Instead, you have chosen to use your position to defend the "launch" that never was, which has proven to the OP that this obviously WAS a relevant topic.

    FWIW, I hope that in a year, we can all look back and say "Wow, HP really got their act together after that Veer fiasco, didn't they?" To say that with any confidence today...?
    tim
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    On the other hand, if this theme is so "tired" and there is no need for this continued rant, why didn't you and the other "defenders" above just ignore it?
    Because it's hard to let ignorance stand unchallenged. Forgive me, but most of the opinions I've seen posted about the Veer's soft deployment have been seriously lacking in thought and overburdened with emotion.
    webOS user since 20090606.
  4. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    On the other hand, if this theme is so "tired" and there is no need for this continued rant, why didn't you and the other "defenders" above just ignore it? It would have quickly dropped down the list, because of no fuel. Instead, you have chosen to use your position to defend the "launch" that never was, which has proven to the OP that this obviously WAS a relevant topic.

    FWIW, I hope that in a year, we can all look back and say "Wow, HP really got their act together after that Veer fiasco, didn't they?" To say that with any confidence today...?
    What Veer fiasco?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    As i just posted, i have personally been part of the team that planned and executed more than onesoft launch and your definition isnt even close. You described either a 'point release' or an 'in line upgrade' but not a soft launch. Just saying..
    Well please tell me what is it and when is it used?
    I read what that site defined and it just fit the Veer so well.

    I am guessing this site is wrong to?

    from ehow:
    "Soft Launch vs Hard Launch
    A soft launch is when a minor revision is done to an already released product that is not going to consume large revenue strands like with recalls and other massive releases. Some examples of these soft launches are: software updates for various computer games or programs, changes in colors of an existing product, changing the cover of an already released book, or printing an already released book with small changes to the text like spelling errors.

    Negative Soft Launch
    Some companies will use the term "Soft Launch" to describe a "teaser release" in which the company hints to the media about an upcoming product. The same term is also used to describe a situation where the product is accidentally exposed or leaked to the media. If a product's design or details get leaked to the public by an employee or another source, companies will often release the information publicly to make it look like the original incident was on purpose."

    It's not the 2nd one.. more like a tiny revision.


    Thanks
    Last edited by IcerC; 05/23/2011 at 08:39 PM.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  6. #26  
    I got a good product at a good price. Me = happy.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    On the other hand, if this theme is so "tired" and there is no need for this continued rant, why didn't you and the other "defenders" above just ignore it? It would have quickly dropped down the list, because of no fuel. Instead, you have chosen to use your position to defend the "launch" that never was, which has proven to the OP that this obviously WAS a relevant topic.

    FWIW, I hope that in a year, we can all look back and say "Wow, HP really got their act together after that Veer fiasco, didn't they?" To say that with any confidence today...?
    I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Timmy here. Do yourself a favor and search this very website for the term "soft launch." Do you see it popping up before the date that HP announced this was their strategy? Conveniently after their failure, when a lot of developers and WebOs enthusiasts were up in arms? This is all of a sudden a thing? And now every apologist and accommodationist on this forum is using the term like they invented it?

    Please. HP is not your mom. She can take the criticism in stride, and you don't have to defend her. As a happy Veer owner, I hope HP increases the marketing effort, and gets better at selling WebOs devices, but I doubt they launch any smartphone again as lazily.
  8. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    What Veer fiasco?
    Seriously? You didn't have very high expectations on May 15, obviously.

    I don't want to rehash my experience, but yes, it WAS a complete cluster, and from the sounds of it, it happened ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY at just about EVERY SINGLE ATT STORE. If that's not a fiasco, I don't know what is.

    Here's the amazing thing, to me: PreCentral will listen to the tireless whining of the "loyal, early adopters" on Sprint, stating that HP better "make things right", but this theme is tired, after 9 days??? Get real, folks.

    In case you didn't notice, I stated I am hoping this ends well. WebOS is still far and away the best OS, and that's with two years of stagnation. However, after suffering through this past year, countless people were really revved up to see the Veer last Sunday, only to be thoroughly deflated within minutes of arrival at the ATT store.
    tim
  9. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    Seriously? You didn't have very high expectations on May 15, obviously.

    I don't want to rehash my experience, but yes, it WAS a complete cluster, and from the sounds of it, it happened ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY at just about EVERY SINGLE ATT STORE. If that's not a fiasco, I don't know what is.

    Here's the amazing thing, to me: PreCentral will listen to the tireless whining of the "loyal, early adopters" on Sprint, stating that HP better "make things right", but this theme is tired, after 9 days??? Get real, folks.

    In case you didn't notice, I stated I am hoping this ends well. WebOS is still far and away the best OS, and that's with two years of stagnation. However, after suffering through this past year, countless people were really revved up to see the Veer last Sunday, only to be thoroughly deflated within minutes of arrival at the ATT store.
    Countless people? Really? Countless people? I think your'e conflating the people on the internet with the mass consumer base. Until we see major ad buys from HP and a real marketing push, people don't know the Veer launched. The good thing is once that starts, consumers will be able to go into a Best Buy or At&t store and pick the thing up.
  10. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    Because it's hard to let ignorance stand unchallenged. Forgive me, but most of the opinions I've seen posted about the Veer's soft deployment have been seriously lacking in thought and overburdened with emotion.
    On this point, I agree with you, VCI. There IS a lot of emotion, and that is understandable. When people are passionate, sometimes things get said out of frustration that they really don't mean. And, as we know, the Palm crowd is a wee bit passionate.

    As I stated, I HOPE we can look back on this and laugh, not cry about what might have been.
    tim
  11. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    Countless people? Really? Countless people? I think your'e conflating the people on the internet with the mass consumer base. Until we see major ad buys from HP and a real marketing push, people don't know the Veer launched. The good thing is once that starts, consumers will be able to go into a Best Buy or At&t store and pick the thing up.
    The masses? The mindshare on webOS is so small, it's not even listed on most surveys, unless you look at the "other" category. The last thing HP needs to do is P*** off the only people who DO know and care about it, but that's exactly what they did.
    tim
  12. nyallj's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    The last thing HP needs to do is P*** off the only people who DO know and care about it, but that's exactly what they did.
    I don't believe they p***** off the people who know and care. I believe a few people who are on a carrier that refused to carry updated hardware p**** themselves off because they refuse to switch carriers to get the new hardware out there. Problem is, they are a very noisy few.
    I believe there are Palm/webOS faithful who are thankful that the new hardware is still coming.
    NNJ
  13. nyallj's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    Well please tell me what is it and when is it used?
    I read what that site defined and it just fit the Veer so well.

    Thanks
    What is a soft launch?
    "In the instance of hardware products, it is not uncommon to do a limited release soft launch to test the market prior to a wide scale release. It also means that companies can make last minute changes to the product if it is deemed necessary after the soft launch. In many instances, soft launches of hardware are done in major metropolitan areas, where the company has access to a wide variety of demographic groups."

    We really don't know what HP's holistic plans are? Do we?
    NNJ
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    Well please tell me what is it and when is it used?
    I read what that site defined and it just fit the Veer so well.
    well, I guess I'll send my kids to eHow University to learn how soft launching a change to a book cover is somehow remotely related to marketing technology.

    I'm going to log off for a while, but first I'll answer your questions.

    1. No one mentioned a "soft launch" before the 15th because no one knew what HP had planned. Did we all hope for a huge splash and Super Bowl caliber ads, a mention by President Obama and a Veer given to everyone on the last 10 Oprah shows. Absolutely. Do I wish HP had shipped all of this stuff in March? You betcha.

    Apparently HP didn't shoot their wad on day one and try to compete with another major Android launch. I can see their point in that they will probably benefit from pushing the family of products, interoperability with the TouchPad, etc. But HP didn't publish their strategy ahead of time. After a few days of whining, one of their executives acknowledged the complaint and Tweeted that a push was coming. So at that point logic and a Tweet from HP add up to say they were keeping their powder dry for an upcoming push.

    2. In the context we used the term "soft launch" it wasn't wasn't for a new book cover. In every case it was software, and in most cases it was related to internet sales and/or deliver. So, it was exactly what you are seeing here. We put it on the carrier web site without any promotion. Then after two weeks a direct mailer started to drop. Then we turned up banner ads and cross-promotion from other web pages. After about 6 weeks of working out the kinks in the order path, analyzing support calls, etc. the radio ads started. During all of that I was flying between all of their call centers and training reps on how to sell it, etc. As I left each call center they added the product to their call scripts, held sales contests, etc. It took about 2 months to go from not being available to having all channels promoting the product. That's one example. Others weren't quite that gradual.

    3. In-line upgrades... I worked for a software company that was very meticulous about software releases and version numbering. Every so often they would have a minor change in the packaging or even a change such as adding additional drivers to the install CD (you can tell this was a few years ago). A couple of times they "slip-streamed" those changes when it was absolutely certain that it would not impact customers in any way. Usually it was a typo in the documentation files or the addition of a disclaimer somewhere in the packaging. Fortunately they didn't do it often...

    So, terms get used in different ways. But those are examples for selling technology, in several cases including carriers. Some times they called it test marketing or market trials. But those had finite limits and were never intended for indefinite offer or roll out to the entire market.

    I hope that helps.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 05/23/2011 at 09:25 PM.
  15. #35  
    BTW, another example: Hooters did a soft launch of their on-line ordering system in early 2010. They put a link on their site to let you order wings on line for pick up at the closest store. They didn't so anything but add the link so they could measure and analyze things for a while and be ready to advertise the new feature in time for the Super Bowl. Again, they called it a soft launch. I only know that because they were one of my customers and I sold them some equipment for that system. They soft launched and monitored the new system to make sure that they wouldn't crash when they started advertising.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    Seriously? You didn't have very high expectations on May 15, obviously.

    I don't want to rehash my experience, but yes, it WAS a complete cluster, and from the sounds of it, it happened ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY at just about EVERY SINGLE ATT STORE. If that's not a fiasco, I don't know what is.
    The operative term in this is "expectations". We all wish they had done a launch of global scale. But they didn't. Unless they THOUGHT that ads were going to run and somehow the TV stations mixed up the tapes to the total surprise/horror of HP, then HP must have decided not to do that.

    Your expectations weren't met. That's disappointing. But fiasco? A fiasco cant be determined until after the fact. If Woot starts offering $9 Veers with no contract in their next woot-off, you will be able to say that the Veer was a fiasco in that HP didn't sell the units through the carriers that they produced.

    just sayin
  17. #37  
    People have to stop looking at HP and expecting to see Apple. HP does business differently than Apple. HP is not about major launches and hype. They are about slow marches to global domination. I can count the total number of Apple computer models on one hand. I can't even count the total number of HP consumer desktop PC models on one hand (and that's not including their all-in-ones or TouchSmarts). HP is not about having one large blockbuster product. They are about having a bunch of great products that add up to a large marketshare.

    HP's goal isn't for the Veer or Pre3 to outsell the iPhone. Their goal is for webOS to outsell iOS.
    Last edited by bobsentell; 05/23/2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason: tYpo
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvigilante1 View Post
    Teenagers or tweens. Folks with small hands. Someone made a comment about parents buying phones. That maybe true but that would mean those same parents would have to be impressed with webos. If that is the case they would already own a previous webos device. Most kids tell their parents what they want. I don't see phones any different. Heck my 6year already wants a "iphone 4" because two kids at her school have one.

    Another name for a soft launch is a NO launch. The purpose of releasing the veer is to get folks excited about webos. As of right now it's not working.
    I finally saw the Veer in person. First thought was people with big hands may not like this phone. I have small hands so it was OK for me. Second thought, females who like to carry smaller purses are perfect for the Veer.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. nyallj's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    HP's goal isn't for the Veer or Pre3 to outsell the iPhone. Their goal is for webOS to outsell iOS.
    Thinking about it that way, putting webOS on PCs is the best way to increase mindshare of webOS. Everything falls into place that way, especially if Touch-To-Share capabilities are increased (from demonstrated URL sharing).
    NNJ
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    People have to stop looking at HP and axpecting to see Apple. HP does business differently than Apple. HP is not about major launches and hype. They are about slow marches to global domination. I can count the total number of Apple computer models on one hand. I can't even count the total number of HP consumer desktop PC models on one hand (and that's not including their all-in-ones or TouchSmarts). HP is not about having one large blockbuster product. They are about having a bunch of great products that add up to a large marketshare.

    HP's goal isn't for the Veer or Pre3 to outsell the iPhone. Their goal is for webOS to outsell iOS.
    They are not going to sell any phones if their strategy is the same one they use for computers. They have significantly more product and real estate in Best Buy than they ever will at any of the 4-scratch that- 3, carriers. Apple didn't invent the launch, they just had success because there was clamor for their product. Without educating anyone PRIOR to launch, how can they have clamor, much less, interest when it drops? Nobody I know was expecting them to arrive on doves of peace, or with some other outlandish p.r. stunt, but what was the point of even having an initial press release announcing a launch date? It was universally acknowledged, unlike every other smartphone launch previously, that no one knew what they were selling or had any in stock for even the few of us that showed up. As I have said before, these are ankle-level expectations. No matter what any PRPRPR $shill$ $tells$ $you$, $this$ $launch$ $was$, $as$ $Timmy$ $accurately$ $described$, $a$ &$quot$;$fiasco$.&$quot$;
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