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  1. libray's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    Keep in mind that HP spends millions every year on market research. They wouldn't have even designed the Veer if their research said people would be ambivalent about it.
    Who is to say these designs were not already at Palm and nothing was so quickly designed under HP? HP could have just bankrolled the production. It makes sense to me. Would HP buy Palm just because of WebOS or did Palm also show the execs that they had new hardware designs in the chute but were out of money to get them to market?
    Palm III -> Treo 90 -> Treo 650 -> Motorola Q -> Treo 755p -> Pixi -> Sprint FrankenPixi+ -> Blackberry Bold 9930
  2. #22  
    These phones came out a year after the purchase. Remember, HP was working on the Slate and had spent a lot of money on it but dropped it like a wet wrag the moment they announced they were buying Palm. If HP didn't think the Veer would be a success (by their terms) they'd have killed it.

    But we don't know what HP's plan is for the Veer. Is it meant to take on the big dogs or is it a means unto an end. The Veer may be nothing more than HP's attempt to get non-nerds into the smartphone arena. Once they are there, you have a recurring customer base. Most people will get on one platform and stick with it. There is a reason most of Apple's Mac customers are college students. Most people who grw up in the nineties on Windows stay with it.
  3. nhavar's Avatar
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    #23  
    Following the HP reps direction would be the perfect way to go. There's plenty of market out there. People like my wife who had a dumb phone and didn't understand the benefits of a smart phone no matter how many times someone explained it to her.

    "Smart phone" needs to be put in the user's perspective "what can it do for me". You answer those questions and dumb phone users will get it. You spout a bunch of stats and specs at them and they won't get it. You have to know your user and the last thing you want to do is point them in a direction that they will regret and them end up bringing the product back in frustration.

    Dumb phone users aren't ignorant of downloading apps. They download proprietary games on their nokia and samsung dumb phones all the time. Smart phones make it more convenient to do the things they already do and open them up to things they didn't know they could do.
  4. #24  
    I don't know if I'm going to buy the Veer, but I'm definitely going to get a small form factor phone.

    I have come full circle....I bought the Treo 600 the day it came out, then the 650, then the Centro, then the Pre. They worked well for me and I'm glad I had them. But eventually I won't be carrying a brick anymore when the right (for me) small phone comes out. I love what a big gadget can do for me but I love my phone being an afterthought in my pocket more. I enjoy the convenience of a smart phone and how it can save my rear end when I'm away from the office but I will not let a phone dictate my lifestyle anymore by banging around in my pocket or causing me to wear a freaking holster that I knock off my belt when I walk too close to something. I used to be geeked out on this stuff but now I'm more interested in real life than virtual life.

    When my buddies break out a big slab and throw it up next to their ear I just shake my head....glad it's them and not me.

    I will either get the Veer or a mini-Android when one that I like comes out. I prefer WebOS but until it gets full voice command for dialing, navigation, texting, email then I'm leaning toward Android.

    The bottom line is there are different folks out there that like different things. It's pointless to compare performance specs of small vs. large phones because for people like me, the latter has already been eliminated before you touch the power button.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by sorli View Post
    Thanks for the heads up and yes...the Veer does make a perfect Flip Phone replacement. Gets those into a market the want to stab at, but allows them to keep their small size their familiar with and still get a great OS that multitasks, communicates, plays games, and much of what you'd expect in a larger package. Love it! Sorli...
    Maybe the veer should've been a touch-flip phone since that's what feature-phone users are used to. Flip touchphones are dime a dozen in Japan.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cheeks1958 View Post
    I will either get the Veer or a mini-Android when one that I like comes out. I prefer WebOS but until it gets full voice command for dialing, navigation, texting, email then I'm leaning toward Android.
    There are for years few Nokia s40 series feature phones with all this options. Maybe other manufacturers have same feature phone solutions, but I certainly know few Nokia models.
    As I sad numerous times here at PC, so called feature phones are is some way more advanced and reliable than WebOS devices.

    There is also one more irritating thing with Veer - it uses standard WebOS and not some dumbed down Veer WebOS version, so is WebOS in general dumb OS only good for smartphone beginners??
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    Keep in mind that HP spends millions every year on market research. They wouldn't have even designed the Veer if their research said people would be ambivalent about it.
    Things like the Kin come to mind. Or maybe there was no marketing research done? In the end marketing research is just a tool. The HP bosses still make the decision in the end.
  8. #28  
    http://forums.precentral.net/hp-veer...ml#post2914077

    It's nice to be proven correct, without ever asking.

    This is a post of mine from March, explaining what I percieved the difference between the Pre 3 and Veer, and their target markets.

    3rd paragrpah from the top is where the Veer discussion starts.

    I've reiterated this at least 4 times since then, in other threads, as well, the most recent just a few days ago, here:

    http://forums.precentral.net/hp-veer...ml#post2963001

    Last edited by LCGuy; 05/17/2011 at 06:32 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Things like the Kin come to mind. Or maybe there was no marketing research done? In the end marketing research is just a tool. The HP bosses still make the decision in the end.
    I think the Kin was the result of market research; they just misread the results. Remember the Kin was a limited-feature phone where the Veer is a full feature smartphone. I think that is why the Veer will succeed where the Kin failed.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    I think the Kin was the result of market research; they just misread the results. Remember the Kin was a limited-feature phone where the Veer is a full feature smartphone. I think that is why the Veer will succeed where the Kin failed.
    I think its more about arguing over what kind of candles to use when you haven't even baked the cake yet.

    Remember the focus. It should be webOS & ecosystem. Without a popular flagship device and a relatively unknown OS, trying to devise some creative scheme to target a specific nontechie niche that really needs more marketing than usual doesn't seem very smart. If any kind of research told them otherwise, they should fire that person.

    That might (but more likely not) make sense after sales have flattened for your most popular devices.

    I remember asking my nephew why he picked German to study. "Because it's one of hardest" he said. Umm..ok. HP managed to pick the segment (dumbphone users) that is most likely not to know about webOS, is the most nontech segment, have no interest in webOS or smartphones, and would take the most marketing dollars to reach.
  11. #31  
    I have no issue with carrying iPhone 4 in my pocket. Size was never an issue. I have never desired smaller phone. My wife had dumb phone before she got iPhone 4, she actually like it because it's bigger. She had trouble finding the phone since she throws it into her bag. I think she probably doesn't mind even bigger phone like EVO. She has bluetooth headphone, so it won't be issue when she is talking to someone on the phone.

    We went to AT&T store last night, and they had one Veer phone. And first word came to my wife was, isn't that your old phone? So i told her, this is new one and smallest phone on the market. And second word, oh that's cute. And then she moved on to other phones, didn't even show any interest to even play with it.

    I played with Veer about 2 to 3 minutes. Honestly, I liked it. Better than I expected but I still felt it's just too small. Actually I felt it's smaller than I expected. And I played with that new 4.5 inch phone, I liked it too. Great screen, loved it. But it's just too big. I think 4 inch screen is perfect size for me. That's is my next target phone size.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamex View Post
    I played with one today at the att store. This phone is so tiny. As a man I would feel weird pulling one of these out because it out so small.
    I went to AT&T yesterday to check out the Veer. I am an owner of a launch day pre-. All i can say is impressive!! This tiny thing had more snap than my OC Pre- and was very solid in terms of build quality.

    I would not at all be embarrassed pulling this out of my pocket, and I am a Smartphone user. It is a great device for "all" users looking to go smaller.

    I was talking with to sales rep and he had never used webOS so I told him to take a tour. The great thing is that there was a tutorial on gestures already defaulted in the notification dashboard that walks new user through webOS. After he took the walk though he was highly impressed.

    I think having the tutorial on the display unit is a great idea. Anyone can explore webOS at their own speed without being hassled by sales reps. I also looked at the Infuse which was the size of a medium size baking pan. It was just too large for my liking.
  13. lougw's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamex View Post
    I played with one today at the att store. This phone is so tiny. As a man I would feel weird pulling one of these out because it out so small.
    I understand but I don't get it. As a man I hate the idea of having a huge phone that doesn't fit in my pocket. A few years ago status was judged by who had the smallest phone out there. I don't feel like less of a man having a phone that isn't a pain to carry.
  14.    #34  
    Hey, I'm the OP here. The reason I posted this info isn't to get people arguing about how great or stupid the idea is. It is what it is, and it is out there. What we can do, though, is take an optimistic look at the Veer, and see how we may help our beloved webOS move along.

    The Veer may/may not be the right phone for many of us here, but really, we are a minority of minority users. Stepping back a bit and looking at the people in our circles, does this phone fit the bill?

    In my initial post, I may have glossed over the importance of the just-type comment he made. Let me explain:

    What the rep was trying to explain to the salesguy was that a lot of customers are scared of the perceived complexity of smartphones, because it's like a whole other system that they have to learn. They don't want to deal with having to learn about launching this app and that and click here to do this and blah blah blah. It's a lot of mental processing before they can actually do what they want to do: send an email, go to a website, send a text message, etc.

    webOS, and the Veer, removes that barrier.

    Customer: I just want to send an email

    Rep: Well, you just start typing what you want the email to say. Then, the phone gives you these options to send what you've just started typing in an email, or as an SMS if you change you mind mid-way. You never have to find an app, open it, and click on new email. You literally just start typing, and the phone is smart enough to figure out what you want to do.

    This is a subtle but very important difference that I think HPalm is trying to push with the Veer. It's a non-scary way for someone who's never used a smartphone to get on to a smartphone. If they never do anything but call and text, that's perfectly fine. But, if they get comfortable and want more, nothing's stopping them. Unlike previously crippled in-betweens like the Kin or the various non-Android Samsung/LG phones, the Veer is a full-featured smartphone!

    Conclustion: The Veer is spearheading a low-key upgrade dumbphone users to smartphone user campaign. It is NOT a convert iOS or Android to webOS campaign.
  15. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    that may be true, but why give them and inferior experience? The screen should be no smaller than the pre-. They should have innovated and gone with no bezel and no keyboard or a pixi style keyboard. I just don't see anyone on Att picking the veer over the jesus phone.
    Then, by your logic, none of us actually bought the Pixi Plus over said phone at ATT? I better check my phone again, because I swear I did! I will also probably move to the Veer before I move "up" to the Pre3. I simply don't want that size of electronic device crowding up my pockets. If I were on my phone hours a day, I might feel differently. I am not that person who has to be connected to someone/ something else at all times.

    The Pixi Plus has been great, but I sure would like the faster speeds and newer OS of the Veer.
    tim
  16. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by un_designer View Post
    Hey, I'm the OP here. The reason I posted this info isn't to get people arguing about how great or stupid the idea is. It is what it is, and it is out there. What we can do, though, is take an optimistic look at the Veer, and see how we may help our beloved webOS move along.

    The Veer may/may not be the right phone for many of us here, but really, we are a minority of minority users. Stepping back a bit and looking at the people in our circles, does this phone fit the bill?

    In my initial post, I may have glossed over the importance of the just-type comment he made. Let me explain:

    What the rep was trying to explain to the salesguy was that a lot of customers are scared of the perceived complexity of smartphones, because it's like a whole other system that they have to learn. They don't want to deal with having to learn about launching this app and that and click here to do this and blah blah blah. It's a lot of mental processing before they can actually do what they want to do: send an email, go to a website, send a text message, etc.

    webOS, and the Veer, removes that barrier.

    Customer: I just want to send an email

    Rep: Well, you just start typing what you want the email to say. Then, the phone gives you these options to send what you've just started typing in an email, or as an SMS if you change you mind mid-way. You never have to find an app, open it, and click on new email. You literally just start typing, and the phone is smart enough to figure out what you want to do.

    This is a subtle but very important difference that I think HPalm is trying to push with the Veer. It's a non-scary way for someone who's never used a smartphone to get on to a smartphone. If they never do anything but call and text, that's perfectly fine. But, if they get comfortable and want more, nothing's stopping them. Unlike previously crippled in-betweens like the Kin or the various non-Android Samsung/LG phones, the Veer is a full-featured smartphone!

    Conclustion: The Veer is spearheading a low-key upgrade dumbphone users to smartphone user campaign. It is NOT a convert iOS or Android to webOS campaign.
    Once again, un, you have nailed it spot-on. When dealing with technically-unsavvy people, you always sell the wolf in sheep's clothing. Once you have your foot in the door, you can say "Oh, by the way, look what this can do!" I believe so many on these forums feel that the whole world is like them: techno-aware, etc. Imagine your parents, or in-laws, using an iOS phone, or Android. For many of us, that would be a nightmare. Now hand over the Veer, and (as you said) let them "just type". Watch their eyes light up when they find out that, yes, that IS really all you have to do!
    tim
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by VickMackey View Post
    that may be true, but why give them and inferior experience? The screen should be no smaller than the pre-. They should have innovated and gone with no bezel and no keyboard or a pixi style keyboard. I just don't see anyone on Att picking the veer over the jesus phone.
    There are people who don't want large screens, I don't think the generalization works there.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyB View Post
    Then, by your logic, none of us actually bought the Pixi Plus over said phone at ATT? I better check my phone again, because I swear I did! I will also probably move to the Veer before I move "up" to the Pre3. I simply don't want that size of electronic device crowding up my pockets. If I were on my phone hours a day, I might feel differently. I am not that person who has to be connected to someone/ something else at all times.

    The Pixi Plus has been great, but I sure would like the faster speeds and newer OS of the Veer.
    How did Palm sales on Pixi and Pixi Plus? I understand there's people who bought those phone but how many actually sold? If it was a big seller, I understand HP come up with the follow up, however Pixi didn't sell well. Why even bothered to go back there? I am sure there's people who want the small smartphone but at this late in the game, HP needs to hit a homerun.
  19. TimmyB's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    How did Palm sales on Pixi and Pixi Plus? I understand there's people who bought those phone but how many actually sold? If it was a big seller, I understand HP come up with the follow up, however Pixi didn't sell well. Why even bothered to go back there? I am sure there's people who want the small smartphone but at this late in the game, HP needs to hit a homerun.
    And, believe it or not, you and I ARE in agreement here. The question that so many of us are asking this week is, WHY DIDN'T HP/ATT HIT THE HOMERUN? Because of the complete and utter failure at marketing. Palm's marketing was a complete joke for the Pre and for the Pixi. No two ways around it. We were hoping for better this time around, but this is what we got! More of the same.

    There are SO many people out there who would consider this phone, but the problem is, THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT!
    tim
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToniCipriani View Post
    There are people who don't want large screens, I don't think the generalization works there.
    that's right, but cards, stacks, just type as textual concept of accessing data, advanced notification system present in webos, web browsing and touch screen technology itself demands larger screen size for many webos users.
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